noahfor

Why am I experiencing the experiences of this body and not some other body, and why am I experiencing this moment in time and not some other?

That's the question, and I have an answer:

Because there is no "I" apart from the experiences. I am the experiences, and the feeling of being an "I" is just part of the experiences, and that the notion that experiences must be experienced by some experiencer is just a misunderstanding.

The feeling of having existed for more than this moment of experience is only because of the arrangement of memories in time, and the nature of the experience. This assumes moments of experience, but why would experience have to be momentary. Why couldn't a whole life be one experience?

Also:

Imagine two Universes. They are exactly the same. From no perspective are they different. Aren't they the same Universe? Because to be two, they must be different. Otherwise, how two? To be two, one must be on the left, one must be on the right, but this is a difference. This is the meaning of one and two. To be two there must be a difference, otherwise one.

Now, imagine two people, experiencing the same exact thing, not just the same visuals and sounds, but everything, they feel the same, everything. One of them is you. One of them is me. There must be a difference, since one is you and one is me. The selection process has put us each in one of these two bodies. But wait, is there really a difference. No, they are the same person. It's the same thing because it is the same experience. There is no I.

It's just an illusion that there must be a thing perceiving perception. Perceptions are what they are. The sense of self is no different from the sense of red. Only, by the MEANING of the sense of self and because we experience the meaning as refering to ourselve do we come up with the idea that we must be a self, but we are not.

It's a case of mistaken identity. You feel as though you are a self, so you naturally think you are one.

It's a painting of a guy looking at a painting confusing itself for a guy looking at a painting.

However, even though these are answers I came up with, I still find myself asking the original question.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Toaster126

Reminds me of the time I was high and wondered if the blue object I was looking at looked the same blue color to other people. As in, did they experience the blueness of it like I did, or was blue something completely different to them (and blue was merely an agreed upon word for something unique for each person) ?

It's even more profound sober.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

robbdn

How could you formulate the question "in this body" without recognizing the "outside of this body?" Two things (like your universes) cannot be the same unless they are also different, for how could same exist without different?

You have an excellent thought, but conventional reality has it's place, because it is only through our conventional experience that we recognize that sameness and difference are both same and different from each other.

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I'm swimming in the digital residue of a media-drenched world. It's too cold.

ratbastid

Existence and experience have an identity, a temporality, and a location to them. Why do you experience "you", "now" and "your surroundings"? Because that's "who you are", "when you are", and "where you are". End of story.

noahfor

Right.

Why am I experiencing this moment? Because I am the experience of this moment.

And I understand that that is the right answer, but I can't do away with the intuitive concept of being an observer observing things, or that perceptions must be perceived.

The whole problem comes about from this scenario:

You're completely unconscious. While you're unconscious an exact replica is made of you (just take this for granted). Both bodies are awoken at the same time. Which do you awake in? They are the exact same, so it can't be one and not the other, because nothing asymmetrical can come from a perfect symmetry, so it must either be both or neither, but clearly it can't be either one of these.

This problem is resolved by denying the "you" as a thing accessing the experiences of a body.

These are all my thoughts, and I feel like I could answer all my own questions, or that I could have said what ratbastid said, but I still don't get it. Can anyone help me get it?

I could say: "My body is creating perceptions. Why am I perceiving these perceptions and not the ones of another body?"

I know why that's wrong, but hazily.

asaris

First, you don't perceive perceptions. You perceive tables, TV programs, and books -- that sort of thing. Second, consciousness isn't a separate thing from the body. So you have the perceptions of a certain body because it's your body.

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche