f6twister

The following situation happened to me earlier today. I have mixed feelings about they way I handled it and decided to see what others would have done in the same situation.

My wife and I took our two kids, our almost 2 y/o son and our 8 week old daughter, to the area department store to pick up a few items. Once we got into the store, we each grabbed a cart to put the kids in (they both won't fit in one cart at this store). I had my daughter in her travel seat and my wife was carrying our son. As I was loading our daughter into her cart, my son decided it would be a good idea to plant his feet on the seat of the cart was he was being seated and, in the process, scrape his back on metal part of the cart. He started to scream so while my wife tried to stand him back up. This was difficult as he had squeezed himself into the seat pressing both his back and shins on the metal parts of the cart and he got the back of his pants caught on the cart. I turned to help my wife and just as I got to the cart, I saw an unfamiliar hand reaching for the back of my son's pants. I knew this wasn't my wife's hand as she was at the front of the cart. Not knowing who this hand belonged to or it's intention, I slapped it away and unhooked the pants from the cart. It wasn't until after he was out and comforted that I realized what I did. I have no idea who this person was but I think it was a lady I saw talking nearby when we walked into the store. After I realized what I did, I felt bad for a while but then I started to change my mind.

I gave it some thought and came up with this...while not very polite, I think I was justified as it was my instincts protecting my son. My son was screaming in pain and I was reaching to handle the problem when a stranger, who did not ask if we needed help, have permission to touch my son or even announce their presence, reach to touch my son. On top of that, she reached for his backside which, because of the pulling on his pants and my wife attempting to lift him out, was exposing both his back and part of his butt.

If the roles were reversed, I would not have assisted unless I was either asked or the parents were yelling for help. I would never consider placing my hands on a stranger's kid unless there I was aware of an immediate, life threatening need. In this case, I would have stayed nearby and assisted if asked.

So, my questions are:

Was I justified in slapping away this strangers hand?

Would you have done the same or would you have let the stranger help?

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shakran

Yes, you were absolutely justified in what you did. And this stranger is lucky they didn't get more than you gave them. No one, EVER, touches your kid without your OK. Stop worrying, you did fine, and showed a lot more restraint than I probably would have.

aberkok

The stranger didn't even ask, so you did the right thing.

If they asked and you were a jerk, then it would have been different.

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Willravel

I'm 90% sure the interntions were good, but you were not acting outside of reason. That 10% warrents extra care.

Jimellow

A random person definitely has no right touching your child, regardless of why they are doing it.

And while your kids may be too young to pick up on it, there was still a potential lesson there to not touch or allow yourself to be touched or handled by random strangers, even if their intentions are seemingly benign.

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maleficent

Random people have no right to touch your child, however, there are a lot of moms out in the world (I'm not one of them,but I've seen them) who hear a screaming child and react.

Your child was screaming... maybe they did ask if you wanted help...

Striking out at a person is not exactly a lesson you want your child to be taught...

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Bhav

I agree that you can´t just touch random kids, but honestly if I see someone screaming in pain, be it a child or an adult, I will reach out to help.
I had never considered it to be inappropiate
Imagine you are walking down the street and u see an infant run, fall flat on his face and start crying, if his parents are not in sight or at a considerable distance I would help him get up. I don´t think I could just watch and wait until the parents or someone comes and helps him. Is this wrong??

Xazy

I won't say you were wrong, I would probably due the exact same thing. I think you reacted what is natural. Do I think that the person was planning anything nasty, doubtful, probably was being helpful. I sometimes entertain kids that are upset (it is only natural to want to help another person), but, I am careful to keep a distance, make contact with the parents etc...

I would not lose any sleep over it, and just move on.

Toaster126

I would wager that that same gut reaction that caused you to slap their hand away made them try and help your kid.

You certainly shouldn't feel bad about it though.

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JustJess

Nope - totally justified in my mind. If it were a situation where he had fallen or something and you weren't in reach, sure, I would have stopped to help him up and figure out who his parents are, etc. But you were already in process of fixing the problem, so she should have stayed out of it.

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tenchi069

Both were justified, both trying to do good for the child. I'm sure the person you slapped went home thinking "was I right for doing that?" and talked to friends the way you are chatting with us. One thing I learned looking back on my childhood and having a child to worry about now is this. If you have to make a choice then there is a right and a wrong, but if you are reacting instinctually, then you are probably right.

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ratbastid

Totally. It sounds to me like you were two reflexes interacting, not two people.

Cynthetiq

luckily it was only a slap, some others would have gone apeshit as a reaction...

it's a natural defensive thing to protect offspring from predators.

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The_Jazz

IMHO, the final arbiter on whether or not it was justified is the slapee. If she walked away saying to herself, "oh my god, I can't believe that I tried to grab a strange kid! Thank god the parents were there to set me straight!", then it's not a big deal. The fact that she didn't stick around to say anything says to me that it was a minor slight at best and that you probably shouldn't spend much time worrying about it.

dksuddeth

I'm incredibly amazed that so many people think that simple assault (which is what you really did, was commit assault) is justified. Your child was screaming and someone apparently tried to help without asking. Was that right? no, they should have asked, but for you to slap any hand without first trying to verify the intentions is wrong.

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raeanna74

I feel the same as dksuddeth.

Though if I were the helper I would most likely have accompanied my actions with words such as "His pants are caught, let me help." They probably thought that your wife couldn't see that the pants were caught. They were not touching a child who was out of your sight or standing on their own. Your wife had a hold on your child and he was stuck - he was obviously not going anywhere.

I found a lost little girl in Walmart and did not touch her just told her that I would show her someone who could help her. I led her to the busiest part of the store where the Manager's desk is. Just about the time I began talking to the manager or supervisor the mother came rushing to the front to get assistance. She never even noticed me because I was not in close contact with her child. She just rushed to her child. I think my lack of physical contact in that instance was important.

That said - your slap was instinctual and justified in that light.

Come on you guys - give the helper some credit at least.

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ShaniFaye

Im sorry, as a mother myself, my instinct would have been to do exactly what this woman did...what if it had been another scenerio where your child, being in pain had stood up in the cart and started going off the side and a stranger kept him from falling on his head (and with kids you dont really know how they are going to react next to pain)? would you have slapped them then too?

You really think that people that are going to do harm to a child are going to do it while BOTH parents are standing right there? I think you over reacted

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Hash_Browns

In my opinion, you did what you had to do to get things done for your son. Plain and simple. Was it right or wrong? I don't know I wasn't there and I'm not a judge to determine if this would be assult or self-defense. It was a Dad making sure his son was taken care of in the best means possible.

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analog

Totally jusitifed, random people (regardless of sex) have no right to touch your kid in any way.

But that's not what happened- not even close. That's a totally different scenario and not in the least comparable to what really happened. You're talking about imminent threat of a kid falling out, with parents outside of reach. That's one thing entirely- this was a situation where both parents were already present and working on the issue. Here's the important bit: there was no imminent threat of danger. The kid just caught himself on the carriage.

Short of imminent threat of serious physical harm, you have no right to touch someone else's child.

I don't care if you OR the other woman are pediatricians of 30 years and mothers of 20 children, you have no right unless there is a serious threat of immediate physical harm- which there was not.

EDIT: I don't understand how so many people in here think slapping a hand is bad in comparison to a stranger attempting to touch your child. Someone went so far as to call it assault. Are you serious? They reached forward with the intention of touching a child without consent of the parents. She's lucky it was just slapped. Inexcusable. Just because you're a parent does not give you the right or authority to put your hand on someone else's kid without their permission. There was no imminent danger, and the parents already had control of the situation.

Charlatan

I agree with Mal on this. I've seen a kid about to fall and I reflexively reach out to stop the kid.

I don't give a thought when I do it. I see a kid in trouble and I act.


You people are so uptight. The woman was far from groping the kid. I can understand the instict to protect, but come on... some here are suggesting the woman get worse.

What are you teaching your kids?

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maleficent

It's inexcusable to want to help a child? Clearly you are joking... She's lucky she was just slapped? You are out of your mind...

How do you know that the parents had control of the situation - based on the what he described - the parents didn't have control.. dad was worried about the baby.. mom was having a tough time with the 2 year old... ChILD WAS SCREAMING _ Child screaming means there is no control of the situation.

Slapping someone trying to help is not acceptable behavior... and not something you want to teach the two year old - what happens when he slaps his sister for something -- well dad did it?

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Charlatan

The problem here is we weren't there. We can't judge this in context. f6twister is not a reliable witness as he was a bit involved at the time.

Sure you want to protect your kids BUT jeez... someone offers a helping hand and you slap it? I suppose this is the final nail in the concept that it takes a village to raise a kid.

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Ustwo

Interestingly more people seem to think reflexive violance is ok here, but not in an earlier thread on the general board.

Was what happened understandable? Abosultely, your child is in pain, it triggers you to act, and strangers = danger to the primative part of your brain. I would not fault anyone for it.

Was it the right response? No, it was over reacting to someone trying to help your child.

You acted to protect your child, they acted to help a child, both were reflexive.

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analog

1. Anything outside of guarding from immediate threat of great physical harm is NOT "helping", it's putting your hand on someone else's child without permission. There was no immediate great physical harm- he was just snagged on something. He wasn't about to plummet to his death, she didn't snatch him out from in front of traffic, she wasn't extracting him from a burning building, preventing him from being beaten or having his limbs torn off by a combine- his pants were snagged.

2. Kids scream for lots of reasons, and they have NOTHING to do with parental control. Just because a child is screaming doesn't mean WWIII is breaking out in a department store, nor does it mean the parents don't have the situation under control. Being worried doesn't mean it's not under control- it just means he's worried, that's all. I've been VERY worried about MANY things I've had PERFECT control over- the two concepts have no implied connection. As i've said... unless the child is in IMMEDIATE danger of SERIOUS physical harm, NO ONE has the right to touch- in any way- someone else's child. This child was not in DANGER, the child was scared and maybe a little hurt from snagging himself on something. Screaming of a child DEFINITELY does not "mean danger".

3. You take the opportunity to teach your kid that strangers are not allowed to touch them. Case closed.

analog

Help is help. Touching someone's child without permission is totally separate from that. If "helping" includes physically touching the child, there had better be an immediate threat of great physical danger- and "his pants were caught" does not count.

And by "she's lucky she just got slapped", I didn't mean further violence, I meant being yelled at for touching "my child".

Paq

i think a lot of this depends on where you are. If you're in a city or crowded place, then yeah, it's a great reaction. if in a small local area place where everyone seems to know each other, then it's still a normal reaction, but it would probably be followed by something like, "Ooops, didn't mean to hit ya there, thanks for the help, but we can handle it"

either way, no harm, no foul

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ngdawg

She wasn't right in just reaching over, but being a mom, I understand that. You weren't right in slapping her hand and I hope you apologized for that.
Keep one or two things in mind: women generally are not predators and they certainly aren't in such situations. I suspect that even though there was no real danger of injury, your child's wails were enough to get her springing to action. Hell, she could have even been a nurse....but she should have offered help.
Having twins with me all day, I was sometimes offered help, usually by older women; one on a very rainy day even offered to stand with them in their stroller so I could get my car.(I memorized her license plate and facial features :lol)
We seem to be a parental generation of paranoia on both sides. No one wants to assist for fear of being ostracized and parents think everyone's out to harm their kids.

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raeanna74

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Without this problem this discussion wouldn't even be here.

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analog

But this problem does exist (and has for a while), and this discussion is here, now.

I can also say i'd bet good money that if it was a male person who tried to help, the dichotomy of opinions we're seeing would be much different, even though that would be total bullshit. It's still wrong.

Ustwo

You are saying females are as prone to random acts of violance as males?

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ngdawg

Statistics prove otherwise, for sure....
And quite frankly, other than holding a door open, I personally had never been offered help by a male when out with my babies. Whether that's conditioning on their part as being looked upon as potential danger, I have no clue....

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analog

No, i'm saying less people here would defend a male helper. I think the majority would side with the father because it was a male offering help, rather than a female- like that should make any difference (but I bet it would anyway).

Those against the slap are talking about how the woman was only trying to help, etc.... if it was a man, I would bet money that many of those same people would be saying "there's no way of knowing what he was going to do" and "you protected your child from a stranger." Like everyone else is saying.

(and since when is slapping someone's hand away "violent"? It's not innocent, by any means, but... "violent"?)

CaliLivChick

Well, speaking from the non-parental, but still maternal instinct, point of view, I probably would have tried to help too. If I see a kid (or parent) that appears to need help, and I have the opportunity to assist, I do. However, not being a parent, I wouldn't see myself as a threat because I don't think in the way an actual parent does. I would just be going from the knowledge that I'm not a threat, not even thinking that the parent may perceive me as such. It's good to have the parental perspective, because now I know to be more cautious, and to be sure to offer any services before actually giving them.

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