Ragbags

I expected half a dozen threads here by now 'revealing' how it's obvious that:

- there weren't any bombs at all. The G8 countries just got the media companies (which are all under control of the Trilateral Commission) to get together and fake the whole thing, boosting fear and governments' power;

- the bombs were planted by the US so when the media companies (which are all under the control of the Scientologists) reported it then they'd have an excuse to invade North Korea to take Kim Jong Il's pirate DVD collection;

- the trains were all built as bombs originally in case the French ever invaded. That's why they're underground: to keep the public safe. The problem is that the media companies (which are all under the control of the Grays who incidentally BUILT area 51 and are just renting it out to the US government as a place to stash their pirate DVDs) told people they were part of a public transport system. Same for the buses. After all, they're painted RED and we all know red means danger;

- London doesn't actually exist. It's just a lie made up my the media companies (which are all under the control of a small group of individuals, usually older white men with names like "Rupert Murdoch"), like the rest of "history". I'll bet you can't think of a time before last week when you'd even heard of "London", "the UK", or "England" and if you can it's just memories implanted in you by the waving Windows flag in the corner of Internet Explorer (which is why I use a hacked verison of Notepad as my browser).

... and so on. More seriously, I'd have thought (like the WTC and Pentagon attacks) that it'd be fertile material for conspiracies. Or is it just too soon?

hulk

Kinda tricky to conspiratise this one. Although, point 4 seems remarkbly close to the point...

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Hardknock

Isn't it funny how when Bush's numbers go down there's always some event that happens that has the potential to bring them back up?

samcol

Well, Netanyahu and the Israeli embassy was warned by the British police that a terrorist attack might happen. I think that could be enough to question what exactly happened that day.

balderdash111

And they're off!

(FYI, the report that the israelis were warned was pretty quickly denied by the police and the israelis... of course, that's what they would do, isn't it?....)

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irateplatypus

terrorist warnings of some type are issued continually in a city like london... especially at times when the G8 is being hosted nearby.

thousands of warnings have come and gone... to have one match up with an actual incident is nothing to wonder at.

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MSD

It's always a terror alert level being raised. There's rarely anyhting actually happening. The fact that the G8 summit was beginning and a radical Muslim cleric with ties to militant groups was recently caught and threatened with deportation make an attack by a group that opposes globalization and wants their leader's capture avenged makes plenty of sense without having to resort to absurd conspiracy theories. There were two direct provocations to which violent groups would respond.

Additionally, fraudulent anti-semitic news articles from conspiracy nutcase sites like Prison Planet do not give credibility to anyone's argument.

samcol

What do you know, they were running drills regarding the SAME STYLE ATTACK ON THE SAME DAY.

Video: Bombing Exercises In London Underground

Is this another coincidene or a real conspiracy? What are the odds of running a drill that turns into the real deal on the very same day. Just like 9/11 you have drills depicting the exact event.

ObieX

Oddly enough NYC had the same drill on the day of the bombing. Wondr what would have happened if NYC won the olympics.

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Ustwo

Its just too soon, give them a month or so.

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samcol

I'm just curious as to how you would interpret the video that I posted above. A drill the same day, same time, same style attacks, 1000 people go from doing a drill to doing the real scenario is just to much for me to believe. What's your take on it?

Gatorade Frost

It seems obvious to me that the government planned the bombing to make the 'drill' as real as possible.

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WillyPete

I didn't interpret it as a drill, I saw it as a representative from a security consultancy talking about the fact that they were organising an EXERCISE to deal with such an event.

The reasons for those targets is so obvious that any number of people can wave manilla folders with details for such an event and say 'Told you so' in order to drum up sales or publicity.

Ever since that US bomber flew into the Empire state building, using an aircraft to hit a building has been on contingency plans for security, fire and safety, engineering, etc.

Shit, I read Tom Clancy's book in which a Japanese pilot steals a 747 and flies it into the senate building a few months before 9/11.

All this stuff is nothing new.

Ragbags

samcol:

As I see it, it makes sense. Two groups looked at the (as he said: "logical") way of staging a terror attack in London and both came to similar conclusions.

Of course, we don't hear about any other exercises (which I have no doubt are run frequently all over the Western world) which dealt with other possible targets. For instance - pulling a scenario out of a hat - I'd be very hard to convince that no exercises have taken place where Buckingham Palace is the target. It's just that we'd only hear about it if it were right, in which case we wouldn't have heard about this one - though it certainly was run.

As for the timing - if it happened a week after the exercise, people would be saying "... there was this exercise about EXACTLY THE SAME THING only a WEEK before!!!" Same goes for a month, or even months. Basically, I'm saying that the timimng was mostly luck - but not really surprising in the scheme of things. With the continuing conflict in the Middle East and everyone knowing that England was in the running for the Olympics would have made people more likely to have more of these exercises than they (perhaps) would have six years ago. The more exercises running, the higher the chance that one will co-incide with an actual event.

The point is that running these exercises, and in scenarios that are as plausible a threat as possible, is these people's JOB. If they didn't get it right at least once THEN there should be eyebrows raised. Basically I don't think it points to a conspiracy, more to competent people doing their jobs well and at appropriate times (which applies equally well to the people responsible for the bombing as to the people running the exercise).

Martian

I thought it had already been conclusively proven that all conflict within the last 350 years was the illuminati and the stonemasons duking it out for control of the shadow governments?

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trib767

People died. Should you be joking ?

WillyPete

It's the best time to test that one still has a sense of humour actually.

As for exercises, they ran them several times in London in the past year.
Particularly after Madrid, to ease public fears and show that they were doing something proactive.
Also to show off for the olympic bid.

Yes, they simulated gas, chemical and explosive attacks throughout the capital on certain Sundays, but also in particular on the Underground due to it's obvious target status which was reinforced the other day.

I'm happy to say that we were better off for it. The security and emergency services were amazing.

Although we did bitch about station closures at the time...
Us Brits are never happy.

MSD

There are drills to prepare for attacks daily around the world. If these drills include on-site practice for attacks against likely targets, then one is eventually going to coincide with a real attack. There's a 1 in 7,256,313,856 chance that chance that you'll win the CT state lottery, but in a state with only 3 million people, at least one person wins almost every week.
It probably also helped the response to have emergency personnel and equipment were already on the scene. I imagine that it would have been a lot worse if they had to wait for people to show up and for stuff to be flown in.

d*d

Usually there is a period of time when jokes are considered bad taste, i don't think that time has yet elapsed - but I'm guessing none of the posters here are british

Ragbags

I'm not British - not that it should really make a difference, as I really ought to feel similar empathy with the victims in London as I would with people in Australia (where I am), and do with those who are also suffering in Iraq, Israel, Palestine, Chechnya and so on. We're all human.

I don't see that the jokes in the original post were poor taste, especially as they were at the expense of conspiracy theorists rather than victims.


Martian:

Quite so, but don't forget Men From Mars (you should know...).



My impression (though from what evidence, I couldn't say) was that the exercise was more of an office-based one. One where the management teams of the emergency services practise communication within themselves and between each other, sort out the "thinking power loop paradigm" (or other consultant-speak) and decide on appropriate checklists or processes to follow in similar emergencies. Certainly I didn't agree with the writer of the article that accompanied the video (LINK) when he suggested about the people running the exercise: " ...which bills itself as a 'crisis management' advice company, better known to you and I as a PR firm."


WillyPete:

Those simulated attacks you mention, did they close off streets and run full scale mock-ups? I'm curious. It reminds me of films set in the Cold or World Wars where Civil Defense workers have big exercises with people running around with and white red chalk marking people as 'wounded' or 'dead'.

WillyPete

Yes they did. Even to simulated victims.

But let me say it again, there was no drill or exercise on that day. The guy states that they are a consultancy and they were 'planning' for an exercise that would cover such a bombing only the night before, not actually running one.

As for response time, the Whitechapel firestation is literally round one corner from East Aldgate tube, the one you guys saw 'live' on CNN. They could have walked with their kit.
As for ambulances, their is the East London hospital about 1 mile up the road from the station on the same road. A little further up from that, also on the same road is the Queen Mary Westfield hospital. All they did was shut the road and ferry people in commandeerd buses.

London has a mojor hospital pretty much next to each major rail station. A lot of this is from the Blitz whereafter the govt realised the need to strategically place and disperse service facilities.

trib767

I am British. I also live and work in Central London. Even one week later there is still the shrill sound of sirens going off as the services go about town doing their job. The reminders are still there and I am sure not laughing.

d*d

I don't care who the jokes expenses were at, it was the subject matter that bothered me, I think this particular thread is in bad taste and attempts to justify it's merit offensive.
Seriously, it's still a bit raw to make any lighthearted comments about this without offending people.

bobophil

my dad was on a buisness trip there 3 hours before the bombing.

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samcol

Well here's the latest conspiracy information about the London bombings. The two biggest smoking guns that I've read about is that there were drills depicting the exact same thing happening at the exact same place on 7/7, and now we find out that the mastermind of the bombings was working for MI5. Now if the government isn't behind the bombings, there should at least be serious questions about intelligence agencies and their incompetence.

Watch this fox news video talking about it.
Terror Expert: 7/7 Mastermind was working for British Intelligence
That guy gives the biggest fish story I've ever heard. Who has more ties to the London bombings? Private companies who were running simultaneious drills and British intelligence agents masterminding the attacks, or a spin off group of al qaida?

Martian

d*d,

The world is not a nice place. I know you don't need me to tell you this, especially not now, but just bear with me while I make my case starting here.

The thing is, people die every day, in a lot of cases quite a few more than who died in the London bombings and for less reason. Here in Canada, more people die on the roads every day due to drunk drivers, elderly drivers who can't control their vehicles, people who get behind the wheel while tired, people who can't stop fiddling with the radio etc. These deaths don't make headlines, but they're out there and they're no less meaningful to the families and friends of the victims. Innocent Iraqi civilians along with US soldiers are dying daily in Iraq. We hear abot the soldiers, but the civilian deaths are often relegated to little more than a footnote.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the final number of casualties due to the London bombing is approximately 80 dead with several hundred more injured to some degree. This is a terrible tragedy. Every one of those 80 victims had a family, friends, a job, pets, girlfriends, boyfriends, mothers and fathers. It's a terrible thing to occur and I don't mean to be disrespectful, but this sort of thing happens very single day all over the world. This leaves us with two options; either we can all fold up and go home, turn off all the lights, board up the windows and never come out again, or we can keep going, refuse to let the massive weight that is this truth drag us down. We can continue to live our lives in happiness and health. Humour helps us in that; it's a coping mechanism, a way of sharing the pain and making it bearable. Or as Robert Heinlein aptly put it, "we laugh because it hurts."

I'm sorry if I've offended you, it's most certainly not my intent. But what I hope you understand is that it's not out of disrespect that I make such comments, but more as a way of dealing with the overwhelming sorrow of it all. I'd be willing to put money on those EMT's you noted that are still hard at work and will continue to work hard every day in the losing struggle to save lives making jokes that would shock you, that would make the sort of comments I make seem completely innocent. I deal with the concept of it daily but they confront it face to face, which takes a sort of courage I do not and never will have. In that same vein, they make jokes because if you don't you'll quickly go insane.

Again, I don't mean to offend you or anyone else and I offer my sincerest apologies if that's occured. I just hope to help you understand that it's not slander and it's not that I don't care. After that, you're free to think of me as you will.

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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

bettaa

i was on a overground train to london as shit was going down...believe you me...when i got to central london, there were so many police racing by. By the time i got to london all the Tubes had been closed and the busse had quite litteraly been stopped as i stepped up to the curb. It was the strangest thing seeing so many not knowing how to get where they needed to go. I really feel for the people who had family that died in the bombings...it was scary as shit in london that day and i high-tailed it outta there as quickly as i could when i found out what was going on (trusty ibook and a starbucks and bbc website).

d*d

My point originally, if you read it is that there is a period after something such as a bombing where jokes are considered bad taste.
I know what goes on in the world and I know that by comparison the life lost in the london bombings is miniscule so there is no need to patronise me with road death figures, I don't beleive it's a numbers game. Do you go up to people involved in those situations and make wry witty remarks about dangerous driving because - if you laugh it'll feel better - no, you respect that something awful happened and keep your mouth shut. Anyway I will stop posting is this thread after this one, my feelings on those who are trying to justify laughing AT the london bombings have been made

justinrazs

pc makes me angry. first of all mister d*d, you shouldn't be angry at peoples jokes, you should be angry at the corrupt governments that are causing these deaths, you should be angry because of the fact that nobody is doing anything about it, you should be furious that humanity, which at one time was peaceful and helpful, is now a species of psychotic war mongering greedy lying thiefs, and the few people left that realize this do nothing but sit on there asses, because there will never be a way to end it. everyone takes things way too seriously these days, and barely anybody looks into the endless starry sky and realizes that they don't have to be so damn glorious, that they don't have to be the savers of this world which is falling apart at an alarming rate, they don't realize that the fight over religion is a fight that is useless, and dont' try to tell me it isn't over religion, because all war is rooted in religion, america being the worst, with its christianity used as fear and control, christ is the most quoted prophet in the qu' ran, and was very in touch with his spirit, his deep connection with everything that is was and will ever be, his knowing that he is part of this universe and all that he had to do was be moral and good and spread his word, his word that was corrupted and changed to fit the needs of conquerors, in conclusion, i say that really, humor is the only thing we've got, because it's funny our civilization thinks that they are so high and mighty, when they are the worst one to ever be. hold true my dear friends, the power of the universe is within you, use IT to make this world a better place, learn to accept peoples differences, get away from your t.v. sets and your attachment to physical things, learn the truth of your spirit, and laugh at everything. that is glory end rant

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Mr.X

hehehehehe...

samcol

Please tell me what part of this analysis is wrong. Prior knowledge warnings, specific threats, no public inquiry into the attacks, drills at the exact place and time of attacks, military grade explosives on timers, and above all once again we have the mastermind working for intelligence agencies.

More evidence points to British intelligence than to Al qaida.
(click link for imbedded references)

WillyPete

There were no drills going on.
I know because I missed getting on the train that blew between Liverpool St and Aldgate east because I wanted a coffee. I almost took that one due to rain.
I turned and exited the tube entrance at Liverpool st station and it went off.

There were NO drills at this site.
If anyone had run drills at any other time, then this would be one station you WOULD use to drill at because it is a very likely target. Exercising in the boonies at a station like Swiss cottage would be stupid. You exercise at all the important stations where one or more lines run together.

The bombers themselves were acting strangely for people who expect to die, arguing over being short changed, popping into MacDonalds for a burger, buying return train tickets.

Bullshit.
How exactly does someone who expects to die act?
So you'd do things out of the ordinary to attract attention to yourself and your 3 buddies who also have large backpacks on with explosives?

As for observation, why would it matter if they pulled people off their case? Their is a limited number of surveillance operatives in any one country. Are we to watch everyone at once?

bollocks

McDonalds. Definately the last place i'd expect to see an islamic extremist.

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WillyPete

"Can I get a Bacon and Egg mcMuffin please?"

uncrtn

It was the smurfs and the fragals fromfragal rock no doubt in my mind