Osama bin Innocent is to sue WASPington for defamation… - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ol' Man Mose · 03-15-2007, 09:56 PM

….Afghanistan set to become filthy rich from America and her sychophantic satrapies war reparations!

Bush set to hand over the reins to Frankencheney and go into rehab!

Willravel · 03-15-2007, 10:07 PM

As a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, even I can tell you that www.Rense.com is absolutely nuts 99.999% of the time and is partially nuts .001% of the time.

Ol' Man Mose · 03-15-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

As a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, even I can tell you that www.Rense.com is absolutely nuts 99.999% of the time and is partially nuts .001% of the time.

Isn’t that a form of ad hominem attack? Of disregarding the message because of the paper it is written on?

Sure, I agree Jeff “The Martians are coming!” Rense is into all sorts of weird shit. But he often prints what the purblindly "patriotic" US press refuses to print, lest it upset its plutocratic masters.

pan6467 · 03-16-2007, 12:09 AM

Some very interesting questions. I'd like to know why it took so long for him to confess..... maybe he got tired of the gourmet food and pedicures and decided it's been 5 1/2 years he can talk now. When is the statue of limitations?

Ol' Man Mose · 03-16-2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Some very interesting questions. I'd like to know why it took so long for him to confess..... maybe he got tired of the gourmet food and pedicures and decided it's been 5 1/2 years he can talk now. When is the statue of limitations?

You mean the Statute of Intimidations, doncha?

The_Jazz · 03-16-2007, 05:09 AM

Moved to Paranoia

Willravel · 03-16-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Man Mose

Isn’t that a form of ad hominem attack? Of disregarding the message because of the paper it is written on?

Sure, I agree Jeff “The Martians are coming!” Rense is into all sorts of weird shit. But he often prints what the purblindly "patriotic" US press refuses to print, lest it upset its plutocratic masters.

Ad Hominem is an attack against the poster. I was pointing out that your source is unreliable at best. I suppose if you were to label my statement with a fallacy, it would probably be a Biased Sample Fallacy, but that's really not even applicable.

Fine, I'll break it down step by step (devil's advocate time):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

According to the headline article on BBC's front page, KSM is claimed to have admitted to the kangaroo court that tried him:

" I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z."

KSM's confession was announced to the world by the very people who routinely torture prisoners, hold secret military trials behind closed doors, and bar all lawyers and reporters from being anywhere near the courtroom.
But you do believe them, don't you?

Just because torture usually doesn't work doesn't mean that it never works. This is proof of nothing. Although I agree that this idiot probably had little or nothing to do with 9/11, the assertion is illogical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

(Boy, is this going to confound the millions of FoxNews- and Limbaugh-trained Bushie buffoons who still believe Saddam did it!)

Guilt by association fallacy. The BBC has nothing to do with Fox News.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

Now, if I could ask KSM a few questions to satisfy my own nagging curiosity, here's what they'd be:

1. If you were indeed "responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z" as you claim you were, why did your boss, [Osama], categorically deny the attacks in 2001?

Either he had nothing to do with 9/11 or he had something to do with 9/11. His denial doesn't really give an indication either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

If you guys really are the arch-enemies of civilization, then the strike against your most hated enemy on 9/11 would have been something for you to shout about. After all, none of your operatives were caught prior to their missions; they successfully bypassed airport security; they successfully hijacked passenger jets and subdued the passengers; they successfully evaded a US military response; they successfully flew the planes with absolute precision even though they themselves barely knew how to fly; they successfully demolished the twin towers; and they successfully struck at the heart of the US military.

Wrong. If Osama wanted to be a maryter, he would have died long ago. Osama doesn't want to die. The message of 9/11 was clear enough, and didn't require Osama to die, so he doesn't need to claim responsibility. The idea that he may not have had anything to do with 9/11 makes his being targeted more meaningful for Arabs who support his causes. "He had nothing to do with it, yet the infadels still want to kill him." Etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

You claim you had masterminded and executed the most brilliant plan ever hatched, so you could rightfully have claimed with pride that you were a terrorist genius non pareil and the world's #1 bad guy back in 2001, yet [Osama] denied all responsibility in an interview he gave Ummat Magazine immediately following 9/11. Why?

The official story of 9/11 is quite simple. Arabs came over here (easy), tok flying lessons (easy), hijacked planes by using the only weapons on the planes (medium), and flew planes into buildings (hard). The 4th plane went down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

Oh, I get it! Usama wasn't kidding -- he didn't do it! That's why he isn't on the FBI's "most wanted" list! And that's why that agency has openly admitted there isn't a shred of evidence that ties Usama to the attacks. So it was you all along, you sly devil you!

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI

MOST WANTED TERRORIST
Usama Bin Laden

Sorry, Nila, but you're flat out wrong and it kills your argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

2. Why did you inform a select group of bankers - and the CIA - of your plans?

It's clear you did, because it's been proved that pre-9/11 insider trading on United Airlines and American Airlines options lead directly to the highest ranks of the CIA. Investigations proved that none of your people benefited from any of these transactions. So what's with your desire to make the CIA brass rich? There was a jump in United Air Lines 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. There was a jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. No similar trading occurred on any other airlines.
Between September 6-10, 2001, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw suspicious trading on Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley, two of the largest WTC tenants. An average of 3,053 put options in Merrill Lynch were bought between Sept. 6-10, compared to an average of 252 in the previous week. Merrill Lynch, another WTC tenant, saw 12,215 put options bought between Sept. 7-10, when the previous days had seen averages of 212 contracts a day.

And who did the insider trading? Do you have a list of people? How do you know that they weren't associated with the terrorists? Also, where is the evidence that the CIA knew?
[QUOTE=Nila Sagadevan]Most of these transactions were handled primarily by Deutsche Bank-A.B.Brown, a firm which until 1998 was chaired by A. B."Buzzy" Krongard, who later became executive director of the CIA.
Ah, the "From the Wilderness report". None of this information has been verified, and it's been debunked a dozen times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

3. Why did you ask FEMA to be in New York the day BEFORE 9/11?

FEMA emergency teams conveniently arrived in New York on 9/10 in preparation for an emergency "drill". If you didn't ask them to be there, who did? Or was this just an incredible coincidence?

Or perhaps you thought some of your chaps would survive the fireballs and require a little First Aid?

Coincedence. Do you know how often FEMA runs drills in major cities? Before 9/11, if was as often as every dew weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

4. How on earth did you manage to divert NORAD's attention by getting them to play those silly war games that morning? And five of them? And some of the exercises actually involving 'live hijackings'? And you managed to pull all this off from a cave in Bora Bora? How?

Again, NORAD runs tests almost daily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

5. Why did you tell Larry Silverstein months in advance to prepare WTC 7 for demolition?

You had to have told him -- Mr. Silverstein openly admitted that he "pulled" it. We all know "pull" is industry jargon for a controlled demolition. Silverstein couldn't possibly have had the building wired and loaded for a "pull" on the day your lads attacked us - it takes months of preparation to set up a building for a pull. So you had to have have told Mr. Silverstein of your plans well in advance.

What's your little thing with Lucky Larry?

This is the weakest argument in all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories. It represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the English language. "Pull it" was meant to say, 'pull the firefighters out of the building'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

6. Why did you inform, of all people, the Israelis of your plans?

If you didn't tell them, who did? Five cheering Israeli "art students" were videotaping your attacks on the Twin Towers as they happened, yelping shouts of joy and mockery. According to ABC's 20/20, when the van in which they were traveling was later stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers: "We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem."

Why did he feel that Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD? Also, there were traces of explosives discovered in the van. Since it was you who had to have told the Israelis about your plans, it surely must have been you who also supplied the explosives to the Israelis? What's with that?

That quote was never verified and was debunked.

This is why Rense sucks. No one is accountable to provide credible evidence. I've been asked by several people who frequently write for Rense to write an article about 9/11. I said no. Why? Rense is not credible. Good writers, credible writers, avoid it like the plague because of the reputation it's built so far as being quite simply insane. I don't want my investigations to be associated with that and I'm hardly the only writer that thinks that.

Your hart is in the right place, but you have to realize that if you're ever going to convince people, you need credible evidence and reasonable conclusions based in that credible evidence.

An example:

This is an image that I've been showing for years. The blue circle represents the only actual hole in the side of the Pentagon immediately following the crash of Flight 77. You'll notice that it's at the center of the damage and would have been the place where the fuselage made contact. Direct your eye above the hole. The tail made no impact damage at all. The window where it would have made contact is still intact.

That's an example of credible evidence. That picture was published a thousand times in magazines and shown on TV after 9/11. Make your own conclusions based on that evidence, but there you have it.

Dilbert1234567 · 03-16-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

That's an example of credible evidence. That picture was published a thousand times in magazines and shown on TV after 9/11. Make your own conclusions based on that evidence, but there you have it.

... however, the pentagon is designed to take a beating and survive, the tail was ripped off, the tail is relatively weak compared to the main section of the plane which was able to punch through, but not he wings. This is shown in computer simulations, and by the wreckage.

Willravel · 03-16-2007, 06:23 PM

Concrete scratches. I can scratch concrete with a small hammer. Imagine a tail section, strong enough to stabilize a 163,900lb plane going hundreds of miles per hour, could do...

I didn't expect it to make a hole, but not a scratch? Strange....

Dilbert1234567 · 03-16-2007, 06:42 PM

I'm sure it is scratched, however, the pic is low quality, and far away.

each pixel is like 6 inches or more, you can't see minute detail with poor resolution like that.

fastom · 03-16-2007, 07:11 PM

Will
Did you jump sides?

Quote:
"And who did the insider trading? Do you have a list of people? How do you know that they weren't associated with the terrorists? Also, where is the evidence that the CIA knew?
[quote=Nila Sagadevan]Most of these transactions were handled primarily by Deutsche Bank-A.B.Brown, a firm which until 1998 was chaired by A. B."Buzzy" Krongard, who later became executive director of the CIA.
Ah, the "From the Wilderness report". None of this information has been verified, and it's been debunked a dozen times. "

Quote:
Coincedence. Do you know how often FEMA runs drills in major cities? Before 9/11, if was as often as every dew weeks.

Quote:
Again, NORAD runs tests almost daily.

Quote:
This is the weakest argument in all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories. It represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the English language. "Pull it" was meant to say, 'pull the firefighters out of the building'.

Quote:
That quote was never verified and was debunked.

This is why Rense sucks. No one is accountable to provide credible evidence. etc...

Some nof those are valid points, the stock trading is highly suspicous and somebody certainly knows who made the money. The FEMA, NORAD and Israeli bit as well. Surely you don't think that many coincidences are to be believed?

Silverstein speaks English as his primary language and thinks "Pull it" means that?

I think the article is OK after the first few paragraphs of BS.

Willravel · 03-16-2007, 07:24 PM

Here's a better picture. Again, window is intact, no visible scratches.

But that's not really for this thread. This is about the OP.

Dilbert1234567 · 03-16-2007, 07:26 PM

the stock trading is not suspicious at all if you watch the market. both airlines had press releases saying there third quarter losses would exceed their 2nd quarter losses. I know several people, including myself who bailed out before 9/11 because of the profit warnings.

Willravel · 03-16-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastom

Will
Did you jump sides?

Nope, but I get mad when people make bad arguments. Any argument from Rense is bad. I don't want rense associated with the 9/11 truth movement any more than it already is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Fine, I'll break it down step by step (devil's advocate time)

I made it clear I was playing devil's advocate, anyway.

Ol' Man Mose · 03-16-2007, 07:43 PM

[QUOTE=willravel]Ad Hominem is an attack against the poster. I was pointing out that your source is unreliable at best. I suppose if you were to label my statement with a fallacy, it would probably be a Biased Sample Fallacy, but that's really not even applicable.

Fine, I'll break it down step by step (devil's advocate time):

Just because torture usually doesn't work doesn't mean that it never works. This is proof of nothing. Although I agree that this idiot probably had little or nothing to do with 9/11, the assertion is illogical.

Guilt by association fallacy. The BBC has nothing to do with Fox News.

Either he had nothing to do with 9/11 or he had something to do with 9/11. His denial doesn't really give an indication either way.

Wrong. If Osama wanted to be a maryter, he would have died long ago. Osama doesn't want to die. The message of 9/11 was clear enough, and didn't require Osama to die, so he doesn't need to claim responsibility. The idea that he may not have had anything to do with 9/11 makes his being targeted more meaningful for Arabs who support his causes. "He had nothing to do with it, yet the infadels still want to kill him." Etc.

The official story of 9/11 is quite simple. Arabs came over here (easy), tok flying lessons (easy), hijacked planes by using the only weapons on the planes (medium), and flew planes into buildings (hard). The 4th plane went down.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted.htm

Sorry, Nila, but you're flat out wrong and it kills your argument.

And who did the insider trading? Do you have a list of people? How do you know that they weren't associated with the terrorists? Also, where is the evidence that the CIA knew?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan

Most of these transactions were handled primarily by Deutsche Bank-A.B.Brown, a firm which until 1998 was chaired by A. B."Buzzy" Krongard, who later became executive director of the CIA.
Ah, the "From the Wilderness report". None of this information has been verified, and it's been debunked a dozen times.

Coincedence. Do you know how often FEMA runs drills in major cities? Before 9/11, if was as often as every dew weeks.

Again, NORAD runs tests almost daily.

This is the weakest argument in all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories. It represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the English language. "Pull it" was meant to say, 'pull the firefighters out of the building'.

That quote was never verified and was debunked.

This is why Rense sucks. No one is accountable to provide credible evidence. I've been asked by several people who frequently write for Rense to write an article about 9/11. I said no. Why? Rense is not credible. Good writers, credible writers, avoid it like the plague because of the reputation it's built so far as being quite simply insane. I don't want my investigations to be associated with that and I'm hardly the only writer that thinks that.

Your hart is in the right place, but you have to realize that if you're ever going to convince people, you need credible evidence and reasonable conclusions based in that credible evidence.

An example:

This is an image that I've been showing for years. The blue circle represents the only actual hole in the side of the Pentagon immediately following the crash of Flight 77. You'll notice that it's at the center of the damage and would have been the place where the fuselage made contact. Direct your eye above the hole. The tail made no impact damage at all. The window where it would have made contact is still intact.

That's an example of credible evidence. That picture was published a thousand times in magazines and shown on TV after 9/11. Make your own conclusions based on that evidence, but there you have it.

There was no need to go into such a detailed destruction of Sagadevan's claims on my behalf, as my post was aimed solely at shit-stirring supporters of the WASP War Party.

Who, BTW, I believe exist on both sides of the political divide up there in the U.S., in the U.K., and down here in Oz.

Consequently, what Sagadevan said was actually immaterial to my missive.

By saying your deprecation of Rense was a form of (i.e. sort of) "ad hominem" attack, I meant you were attacking Rense rather than the (I freely concede) contentious contentions of someone he linked to his site.

I wasn’t really defending either one of them.

(BTW, I love the Beagle pup! Sam (The Good (German) Shepherd and brother of the Sensational Alsatian, Lochie) once had a Beagle called "Sarah" as a purely platonic (Poor Sam barks in a beautiful Bavarian castrati voice" girlfriend)

Willravel · 03-16-2007, 07:52 PM

You'd enjoy the 9/11 thread in paranoia. I've spent countless hours researching and debating in there. It's given me a great deal of perspective.

troit · 05-10-2007, 12:07 PM

Now that theory is CRAZY.....

03-15-2007, 09:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ol' Man Mose Banned Location: in the hills north of Melbourne, Australia	Osama bin Innocent is to sue WASPington for defamation… ….Afghanistan set to become filthy rich from America and her sychophantic satrapies war reparations! Bush set to hand over the reins to Frankencheney and go into rehab!

03-16-2007, 12:09 AM	#4 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Some very interesting questions. I'd like to know why it took so long for him to confess..... maybe he got tired of the gourmet food and pedicures and decided it's been 5 1/2 years he can talk now. When is the statue of limitations? __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

03-16-2007, 05:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Moved to Paranoia __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-16-2007, 06:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	I'm sure it is scratched, however, the pic is low quality, and far away. each pixel is like 6 inches or more, you can't see minute detail with poor resolution like that. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

03-16-2007, 07:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	the stock trading is not suspicious at all if you watch the market. both airlines had press releases saying there third quarter losses would exceed their 2nd quarter losses. I know several people, including myself who bailed out before 9/11 because of the profit warnings. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

03-15-2007, 10:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	As a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, even I can tell you that www.Rense.com is absolutely nuts 99.999% of the time and is partially nuts .001% of the time.

03-16-2007, 06:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Concrete scratches. I can scratch concrete with a small hammer. Imagine a tail section, strong enough to stabilize a 163,900lb plane going hundreds of miles per hour, could do... I didn't expect it to make a hole, but not a scratch? Strange....

03-16-2007, 07:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
fastom Psycho Location: way out west	Will Did you jump sides? Quote: "And who did the insider trading? Do you have a list of people? How do you know that they weren't associated with the terrorists? Also, where is the evidence that the CIA knew? [quote=Nila Sagadevan]Most of these transactions were handled primarily by Deutsche Bank-A.B.Brown, a firm which until 1998 was chaired by A. B."Buzzy" Krongard, who later became executive director of the CIA. Ah, the "From the Wilderness report". None of this information has been verified, and it's been debunked a dozen times. " Quote: Coincedence. Do you know how often FEMA runs drills in major cities? Before 9/11, if was as often as every dew weeks. Quote: Again, NORAD runs tests almost daily. Quote: This is the weakest argument in all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories. It represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the English language. "Pull it" was meant to say, 'pull the firefighters out of the building'. Quote: That quote was never verified and was debunked. This is why Rense sucks. No one is accountable to provide credible evidence. etc... Some nof those are valid points, the stock trading is highly suspicous and somebody certainly knows who made the money. The FEMA, NORAD and Israeli bit as well. Surely you don't think that many coincidences are to be believed? Silverstein speaks English as his primary language and thinks "Pull it" means that? I think the article is OK after the first few paragraphs of BS.

03-16-2007, 07:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Here's a better picture. Again, window is intact, no visible scratches. But that's not really for this thread. This is about the OP.

03-16-2007, 07:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	You'd enjoy the 9/11 thread in paranoia. I've spent countless hours researching and debating in there. It's given me a great deal of perspective.

05-10-2007, 12:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
troit Transfer Agent Location: NYC	Now that theory is CRAZY..... __________________ I've yet to dephile myself...