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Originally Posted by Ol' Man Mose
Isn’t that a form of ad hominem attack? Of disregarding the message because of the paper it is written on?
Sure, I agree Jeff “The Martians are coming!” Rense is into all sorts of weird shit. But he often prints what the purblindly "patriotic" US press refuses to print, lest it upset its plutocratic masters.
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Ad Hominem is an attack against the poster. I was pointing out that your source is unreliable at best. I suppose if you were to label my statement with a fallacy, it would probably be a Biased Sample Fallacy, but that's really not even applicable.
Fine, I'll break it down step by step (devil's advocate time):
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
According to the headline article on BBC's front page, KSM is claimed to have admitted to the kangaroo court that tried him:
" I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z."
KSM's confession was announced to the world by the very people who routinely torture prisoners, hold secret military trials behind closed doors, and bar all lawyers and reporters from being anywhere near the courtroom.
But you do believe them, don't you?
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Just because torture usually doesn't work doesn't mean that it never works. This is proof of nothing. Although I agree that this idiot probably had little or nothing to do with 9/11, the assertion is illogical.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
(Boy, is this going to confound the millions of FoxNews- and Limbaugh-trained Bushie buffoons who still believe Saddam did it!)
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Guilt by association fallacy. The BBC has nothing to do with Fox News.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
Now, if I could ask KSM a few questions to satisfy my own nagging curiosity, here's what they'd be:
1. If you were indeed "responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z" as you claim you were, why did your boss, [Osama], categorically deny the attacks in 2001?
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Either he had nothing to do with 9/11 or he had something to do with 9/11. His denial doesn't really give an indication either way.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
If you guys really are the arch-enemies of civilization, then the strike against your most hated enemy on 9/11 would have been something for you to shout about. After all, none of your operatives were caught prior to their missions; they successfully bypassed airport security; they successfully hijacked passenger jets and subdued the passengers; they successfully evaded a US military response; they successfully flew the planes with absolute precision even though they themselves barely knew how to fly; they successfully demolished the twin towers; and they successfully struck at the heart of the US military.
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Wrong. If Osama wanted to be a maryter, he would have died long ago. Osama doesn't want to die. The message of 9/11 was clear enough, and didn't require Osama to die, so he doesn't need to claim responsibility. The idea that he may not have had anything to do with 9/11 makes his being targeted more meaningful for Arabs who support his causes. "He had nothing to do with it, yet the infadels still want to kill him." Etc.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
You claim you had masterminded and executed the most brilliant plan ever hatched, so you could rightfully have claimed with pride that you were a terrorist genius non pareil and the world's #1 bad guy back in 2001, yet [Osama] denied all responsibility in an interview he gave Ummat Magazine immediately following 9/11. Why?
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The official story of 9/11 is quite simple. Arabs came over here (easy), tok flying lessons (easy), hijacked planes by using the only weapons on the planes (medium), and flew planes into buildings (hard). The 4th plane went down.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
Oh, I get it! Usama wasn't kidding -- he didn't do it! That's why he isn't on the FBI's "most wanted" list! And that's why that agency has openly admitted there isn't a shred of evidence that ties Usama to the attacks. So it was you all along, you sly devil you!
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http://www.fbi.gov/wanted.htm
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Originally Posted by FBI
MOST WANTED TERRORIST
Usama Bin Laden
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Sorry, Nila, but you're flat out wrong and it kills your argument.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
2. Why did you inform a select group of bankers - and the CIA - of your plans?
It's clear you did, because it's been proved that pre-9/11 insider trading on United Airlines and American Airlines options lead directly to the highest ranks of the CIA. Investigations proved that none of your people benefited from any of these transactions. So what's with your desire to make the CIA brass rich? There was a jump in United Air Lines 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. There was a jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. No similar trading occurred on any other airlines.
Between September 6-10, 2001, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw suspicious trading on Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley, two of the largest WTC tenants. An average of 3,053 put options in Merrill Lynch were bought between Sept. 6-10, compared to an average of 252 in the previous week. Merrill Lynch, another WTC tenant, saw 12,215 put options bought between Sept. 7-10, when the previous days had seen averages of 212 contracts a day.
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And who did the insider trading? Do you have a list of people? How do you know that they weren't associated with the terrorists? Also, where is the evidence that the CIA knew?
[QUOTE=Nila Sagadevan]Most of these transactions were handled primarily by Deutsche Bank-A.B.Brown, a firm which until 1998 was chaired by A. B."Buzzy" Krongard, who later became executive director of the CIA.
Ah, the
"From the Wilderness report". None of this information has been verified, and it's been debunked a dozen times.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
3. Why did you ask FEMA to be in New York the day BEFORE 9/11?
FEMA emergency teams conveniently arrived in New York on 9/10 in preparation for an emergency "drill". If you didn't ask them to be there, who did? Or was this just an incredible coincidence?
Or perhaps you thought some of your chaps would survive the fireballs and require a little First Aid?
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Coincedence. Do you know how often FEMA runs drills in major cities? Before 9/11, if was as often as every dew weeks.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
4. How on earth did you manage to divert NORAD's attention by getting them to play those silly war games that morning? And five of them? And some of the exercises actually involving 'live hijackings'? And you managed to pull all this off from a cave in Bora Bora? How?
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Again, NORAD runs tests almost daily.
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Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
5. Why did you tell Larry Silverstein months in advance to prepare WTC 7 for demolition?
You had to have told him -- Mr. Silverstein openly admitted that he "pulled" it. We all know "pull" is industry jargon for a controlled demolition. Silverstein couldn't possibly have had the building wired and loaded for a "pull" on the day your lads attacked us - it takes months of preparation to set up a building for a pull. So you had to have have told Mr. Silverstein of your plans well in advance.
What's your little thing with Lucky Larry?
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This is the weakest argument in all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories. It represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the English language. "Pull it" was meant to say, 'pull the firefighters out of the building'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nila Sagadevan
6. Why did you inform, of all people, the Israelis of your plans?
If you didn't tell them, who did? Five cheering Israeli "art students" were videotaping your attacks on the Twin Towers as they happened, yelping shouts of joy and mockery. According to ABC's 20/20, when the van in which they were traveling was later stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers: "We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem."
Why did he feel that Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD? Also, there were traces of explosives discovered in the van. Since it was you who had to have told the Israelis about your plans, it surely must have been you who also supplied the explosives to the Israelis? What's with that?
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That quote was never verified and was debunked.
This is why Rense sucks. No one is accountable to provide credible evidence. I've been asked by several people who frequently write for Rense to write an article about 9/11. I said no. Why? Rense is not credible. Good writers, credible writers, avoid it like the plague because of the reputation it's built so far as being quite simply insane. I don't want my investigations to be associated with that and I'm hardly the only writer that thinks that.
Your hart is in the right place, but you have to realize that if you're ever going to convince people, you need credible evidence and reasonable conclusions based in that credible evidence.
An example:
This is an image that I've been showing for years. The blue circle represents the only actual hole in the side of the Pentagon immediately following the crash of Flight 77. You'll notice that it's at the center of the damage and would have been the place where the fuselage made contact. Direct your eye above the hole. The tail made no impact damage at all. The window where it would have made contact is still intact.
That's an example of credible evidence. That picture was published a thousand times in magazines and shown on TV after 9/11. Make your own conclusions based on that evidence, but there you have it.