-Ever-

So I'm not really sure where to start.

This song, and more specifically this style, has put me in a certain mood since I can first remember hearing it, maybe as young as 6 or 7. Either way, whenever I hear it, I get back into this mood, one that I love.

Does anyone know of a name given to this Gothic and dissonant organ style? Is it a certain way of playing? Is it a certain way of learning how to play? I never learned how to play piano, however I've steped out a song on one of my synths (for electronic music production) that reminds me of this style.

Sorry for being vague, I figure someone will know what I'm talking about.

Take care
-T

__________________
Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster...
--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

roachboy

the toccata and fugue are names of the specific forms.
for "baroque organ" music, you can look at a variety of places---one that i know of off the top of my head is derek bailey's book "improvisation" which talks about some of the manuals for improvisation from the 17-18th centuries and about contemporary schools of organ playing that still emphasize improvisation. messaen was among the more recent practitioners of the latter school--an important teacher, lots of students/influence---you can get names from the bailey book.
the book is published by dacapo. it is still in print--you might be able to find it at a decent-sized library.
there are other ways to go at this question, to find out about 17-18th century organ music, but this is the one i can think of right now.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

-Ever-

Great, thanks for that info, I'll look into the book.

Can you recomend any artists or specific songs that I can look into for the time being?

Thanks, take care
-Tim

__________________
Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster...
--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

warrrreagl

You're probably thinking of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor; it's the one always played when decrepid castles are shown on-screen.

E. Power Biggs is the recognized Bach organ authority, and he has dozens of recordings out there.

Also, check into Walter/Wendy Carlos' "Switched-On Bach." The original in 1967 was the first commercial use of the Moog synthesizer as a dedicated musical instrument (not simple sound effects), and the revisited release in 2000 covers newer pieces.

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

roachboy

yeah--i dont really follow organ music as a recorded thing, so i would not be much help on this specific question.
maybe look around for reviews or ratings or something?

i did a quick search, and found this, which might be ok

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=1263

but i havent looked at what is inside....

as for bach more generally, these days i have been listening to quite alot of glenn gould. i think seeing "32 short films about glenn gould" would help anyone get interested in his stuff.
i go through phases with bach, like everything else.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

ubertuber

Lots of good info above - roachboy is right in in his characterization of styles and forms. By the way, it is thought (commonly) that Bach did not write the Toccata and Fugue in d minor. The most plausible suggestion I've heard is Mendelssohn, who really introduced Bach's music to the world about 50 years after his (Bach's) death. Since you like the Toccata and Fugue in d minor, there are others, but I'd really suggest finding a recording of Bach's Passacaglia and Fugue in c minor - it is fantastic! Alternatively check out orchestrations of the organ music - Leopold Stokowski did some intersting ones. There is also a recording of an orchestration by Henry Wood recorded live at the Proms concerts in London by the BBC orchestra in 1997. This will be the piece you are familiar with played by an orchestra - like a painting of familiar shapes, but in different colors. If you like the organ and are willing to stretch your limits, check out the music of Olivier Messaen. It is 20th century stuff, and more abstract, but the power and color are undeniable.

*music lesson*

Toccata is a style of keyboard piece that is typically quite technical in nature. Toccata means "touch" and I guess the name sticks because of the technique required to play the pieces. The fugue is a form based on repetitions (called entrances) of a theme (called subject) and its accompanying music (countersubject). The point of it is that the composer creates a big piece of music out of limited material with limited means of manipulating it. Virtually all music students are required to write fugues to get degrees - and it is seen as a painful rite of passage, since it isn't easy! The toccata and fugue (which is not a style, just a couple of pieces with unimaginative titles) is literally that - a toccata section as introduction followed by a fugal section (which is about twice as long if memory serves).

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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

-Ever-

Thanks for the info guys.

However, after reading your posts, I think I gave the wrong impression (although I did learn some cool things). I'm basically looking to see if anyone can recomend any specific artists/songs to buy/download that have the gothic, dissonant, organ style in the Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.

Thanks for any further info if it's out there
-Tim

__________________
Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster...
--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

ubertuber

-Ever-

I added a lot to my post, so look above you again! And please buy your music - I know some recording artists, and classical musicians aren't getting rich making these records!

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

-Ever-

You seem to be a great source of this kind of knowledge, I never knew that about Toccatas and Fugues. Thanks for sharing. I'll definitely look into those artists and playing types.

-Tim

__________________
Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster...
--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

ubertuber

Links below

Stokowski Transcriptions (orchestras playing this stuff) Includes toccata and fugue in d minor and the passacaglia I mentioned.

E. Powers Biggs (organ badass extraordinaire This one includes Toccata and Fuge in d minor and the passacaglia. Biggs rocks, and this will be organ playing, plus, it is cheap.

Last Night of the Proms has BBC orchestra playing Toccata and Fugue in d minor. I have this recording - it is really great. Also, there are sound clips on this website, so you could get an idea of what I mean by orchestration. Alas, it isn't currently in stock on the Tower website.

This one has Bach and Messaen so you could get something you know you like and something that stretches on one disc...

That should do it for now...

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

roachboy

something i just thought of while drinking coffee and staring at the screen....

fugue form is really interesting to listen to, i think, because you can hear the main theme and its variations superimposed on the main theme again in another voice--then another---then another.
working out what is going on can be like a mental excersize.

i find it easier to listen to the form on an instrument with a thinner tone than a pipe organ---bach's partitas for solo violins and cello are both lovely, and have excellent examples of fugue---also the keyboard pieces above---goldberg variations and the well-tuned clavier.

the culmination of all the counterpoint forms is probably the musical offering. hofstader's "godel escher and bach" talks about these pieces at length. it is a fun book, and a good introduction.

beethoven used it---my brain is not firing at the moment fully, so i cant remember a good example---it also comes up often in newer classical stuff as well.

if you are doing your own music, counterpoint is interesting for other reasons as well--(fugue is a superimposition of different lines, each of which is varied using these rules--the lines have to obey the rules in relation both to themselves and to each other)

listening to it make you think about development, how to treat a phrase as something you can invert, turn upside-down, reverse-and-turn-upside-down. these can be useful moves to have in mind if your are improvising, for example. and you do not need to import the rules of 18th century counterpoint to use the ways of thinking about phrases.

for example:
i use this as a pretext to recommend anton webern--the complete works on sony, tagged to pierre boulez, is quite wonderful.

when i was learning theory, i had a tutor who introduced me to some of the bach stuff, messaien's "quartet for the end of time" and webern within a few weeks. of all of these, it was the webern that blew me out, and webern that i still listen to often as if it is the first time. just staggering.

my favorite is op.30 for piano. once you get used to the toanl arrangements, you can start to work out how it is organized---same set of techniques applied to a 12-tone framework with a beuatiful sense of how to use silence.

there is also an arrangement of a bach piece that webern did that can show you, in a few minutes, an enormous amount about how an active hearing of bach reconfigures the notes on paper, pulling out different elements, using different colors.

if you follow this tip, and have not heard this kind of music before doubtless i imagine you will at first react as i did at first:

what the fuck?

but be a little patient. you'll see.

ps. because i have figured out a way to talk about more recent stuff that i found mindblowing---maurizio pollini does schoenbergs piano music--it is on deutsche gramphon (spelling?) and is just ...well.....track down pollini, however---other pianists do this music well at times, but he is the best, to my mind.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite