noahfor

This is not an attack on people who like rap. I just have to get this off my chest.

I can't stand rap music. All of it, and I know alot of it. Underground, aboveground. I hate it all. Several people whip up electronic beats using samples and various devices, and then rappers come in with some nonsense lyrics and just rap over it. Nothing is being said or created. It's just garbage. I hate the roots. The play instruments and are proud of that fact. They talk about how they are organic. Avril Lavigne has a band that plays instruments too. Then there is so much hype surrounding rap. Words like greatest and incredible are used to describe rap all the time. I don't think I've ever called anything I listen too incredible, but it is certainly better than rap. Rappers are obsessed with image, themselves, fashion, slang. It just sucks. I'm just getting started. I have some great rants about rap. Wait until I'm thinking more clearly.

My friend makes beats and everyone is constantly saying how great they sound and how incredible he is at making beats, but then so is his brother. What are the chances of a sophmore and a senior in highschool in the same family with no musical training having such prodigious beat making talent. 100%, because it takes no talent at all to make them. I can pick apart that crap in a minute. It might sound like I'm jealous, and I am, but I don't care.

Name one rap song with no extraineous lyrics that has a single well constructed idea. Not a theme with a bunch of random statements about the theme.

Scorps

I used to hate rap untill I got my subs installed in my car, best stuff if you like the boom!

jay-g

Rap doesnt have to prove anything to you. You dont like, and its not for you.

World's King

Tribe Called Quest.
Mos Def.
Common.
GangStar.
The Roots.


Not all rap has to do with P. Diddy.

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noahfor

Believe me. I'm familiar with most rap. I've seen the roots, J 5, Black Eyed Peas, Dialated Peoples, and others that you probably haven't heard of. I have something against all of them. Outkast is really the only group I like.

Lebell

Also not a slam against anyone who likes rap/hip-hop, but 99% of it I personally can't stand.

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Jeff

Yeah, it's too general to say all rap's bad. I'm a fan of the Beastie Boys, Mos Def, Outkast, and the Roots, even though 95% of my CDs are rock.

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Halx

I think rap/hip hop is a great medium, unfortunately every single popular act today abuses it.

Check out Massive Attack - Blue Lines for some great downbeat rhymes.

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theusername

It has the potenial to be something special. When rappers/hip hop artists start coming up with original ideas, writing their own beats, and giving some meaning to their lyrics rap will improve.

Right now every songs is about non-passionate sex, selling drugs, shooting/getting shot.

Just my 2 cents anyway

noahfor

See, I don't think it's all bad music, but I hate it all with the exception of outkast. I went to the roots, and I enjoyed it, but I hate how everyone likes it, and blows them out of proportion like they are gods, and how everyone acts like they are so into it, and all the popular kids from the school are there. The Roots think they are so great because they play instruments, and other rap groups don't. They constantly call attention to the fact that they do, and like all rappers black thought talks about himself the whole time, and hardly any of what he says has meaning.

Then I go see Darkest Hour, and they just rock so hard, and are so talented, and don't call attention to themselves at all, but rather what they have to say. No ego you know. All there songs are about meaningful stuff, but noone is there, noone likes them, and I'm sure I'll never hear them refered to as incredible.

Then there is dredg. The best band ever.

Scorps

I only listen to the best like Eminem, Dr. Dre, Obie Trice and 50 Cent/G-Unit.

KWSN

I <3 Dredg.

Anyway, concerning rap, I like mostly old-school rap, back when it wasnt about all your "bitches and hos" and the rims on your escalade and whatever the fuck the suckass mainstream rappers these days sing about. Public Enemy, N.W.A., and others, they weren't about trying to get people to buy their albums, they actually had something to say. Public Enemy actually carried a political and social message (and still do). N.W.A., they were like the blues artists of old, their songs told stories about the life the artists led, and that's what rap was born out of. Unfortunately 99% of what's popular now is shit. Among the popular stuff today I appreciate:

-The Roots. No, I don't worship them as gods or anything, but I think that they've got talent and much more substance than other rappers.

-The Streets. More storytelling rap... but from a white British guy. The Streets is pure fun to listen to, basically.

-Snoop Dogg. His lyrics are more "stereotypical-rap" but his delivery and his rhyming are great. Just really fun to listen to.

-Wu-Tang. Tremendously talented lyrically and they don't sing about stupid shit. Very good.

-k-os. Relatively underground rapper in the same vein as the Roots (sort of) but he's solo, not in a group. Outstanding lyrics.

-Prefuse 73. Mostly techno, actually but the rap cuts inserted are outstanding and the beats Prefuse engineers are incredible.

-mc chris. www.mcchris.com for those of you who don't know him. hilarious stuff and incredible (though bizarre) delivery.

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docbungle

Youre reasons for not liking rap show you as being somewhat ignorant. Statements like are ignorant. If you can't see the difference between Avril Lavigne and The Roots, then your post is meaningless and without merit.

I can't stand country, but that doesn't mean country artists have no talent.

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Stare At The Sun

I hate it, but it gets the ladies dancing *sigh*. Why can't everyone dance to industrial?

thespian86

One, FIFTY CENT?!?!?! He is an ex drug dealer who is popular for being shot many a time... You can't understand him. Thats not music, he wants to get laid and earn money.

Two, Obie Trice... I'll just shake my head

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H12

Not any good rap is associated with P. Diddy.

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noahfor

Actually I think KRS1 did something with him.

Anyway, I neevr said the roots weren't talented. I only said that they are proud of the fact that there music is "organic" rather than "electric" like most rap. Is that really something to be proud of. I mean music has only been played on instruments for like uh thousands of years, and I didn't compare their talent or sound to avril, only the fact that they both play instruments, and one is obsessed with themselves because it makes them different.

jwoody

*edited* I'll put something constructive here after I think about it.

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kl0pper

lyrics to aesop rock - daylight
lyrics to blackalicious - alphabet aerobics
i have yet to meet someone who did not absolutely love RJD2. download "ghostwriter"

Derwood

I no longer say that any music sucks. I prefer to say that I don't like it. Some see it as a manner of semantics, but I find it better to just like what I like and not worry about anything else.

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FoolThemAll

I agree with the recommendation of "Daylight" by Aesop Rock, and have two more to recommend. This is coming from someone who has a strong bias against rap: these songs are excellent and fit the quoted criterion.

Atmosphere - Always Coming Back Home to You
Aesop Rock - No Regrets

"No Regrets" is easily my favorite rap song, period.

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marz

I listen to rap....... Only because i think its hilarious.

Jim Kata

So you hate things because everyone else likes it?? I agree. I hate sex, only cause everyone else likes it.

Why do you care what others like and what they don't? If I like something, I don't care who else likes it. And I'm definetly not gonna stop liking something because all the "popular kids" like it. That is just retarded. "I'm so cool that I can't like anything that the cool kids like."

Well you are going to have to start to hate them now, because a lot of people like outkast especially with these two new albums. And if you go to an outkast show, I gaurantee that all the popular kids from all your local schools are going to be there.

No, you just don't understand or can't relate.

Meaningful stuff to you maybe. And if all the "popular kids" from school WERE there, or if they became some huge record selling band, you would bitch about that. Make up your mind.

rev_skarekroe

"rap" is just short for "crap"!
HAW HAW HAW!

sorry.

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wordssmith22

if you don't like rap, so be it. i disagree pretty much on all points about rappers spitting nonsensical lyrics and the simplicity involved in making beats. sure, some rappers say some pretty stupid stuff and some beats are nothing more than casio crap. but if you looked hard enough, and really, it isn't that hard to find, you'll find lots of really great rap with good lyrics and complex beats.

and a lot of other people echoing the main post are referring to the rap they hear on the radio, which, i agree, can be garbage. but we all know the radio doesn't exactly emphasis the best of the respective genres. listen to any of the mainstream rock radio stations and you'll notice the same thing.

Seer666

I my self don't like rap all the much, but there are a few I like, mostly because I thin they are just funny as hell. ICP. While they are VERY offensive in how they put out there message, when you get past the songs about killing rednecks and fucking dead people, do make a pretty good damn point with there music.
On a compleatly different style of rap, is Saul Williams. he writes some of the most intelligent lyrics I have ever heard out of any style. The man just blows me away. And he does it with rap.

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kl0pper

this is not directed at anyone in this thread
but i find it amusing that a lot of people that say "rap sucks, its boring simple drumbeats with inane shouting over it" listen to stuff like ramones-style punk

noahfor

i never said i hated things because lots of people like them or because popular kids like them, i like system of a down, i like outkast, and i never said beats were simple, its easy to take things out of context

for instance

Seer666

My problem with most rap isn't the inane shouting, so much as what the inane shouting is about. Master P comes to mind. His CD has about 40 drive bys and such, but "Only God Can Judge Me". Jackass. Are you Christian, or a thug? That is where most rappers lose me.

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nash

If you don't like it, you don't like it! Why do you have to go around calling it garbage? Lots of people call "Stairway to Heaven" the greatest song ever. Do you have to go and start a debate with each one? Most of the lyrics to that song are arguably nonsensical.

Grandmaster Flash's "The Message" is a good song with a single "well-constructed" idea. I don't know if you realize it, most songs with lyrics are mostly what you call " bunch of random statements about the theme." The only songs I can think of off the top of my head that don't jump around in their lyrics are ballads like Marty Robbin's El Paso.

noahfor

Well alot of songs are a description of something, and all the lines work to describe, or they all work to prove a point, but most rap is just like a stew of random shit that pertains to a theme, but the lines don't really have anything to do with eachother other than the fact that they are about the theme, like there is no harmony, or synergy. One exception I can think of is changes by tupac.

People talk about what they like and don't like. It's natural.

wordssmith22

i'm not sure what makes the lyrics for 2pac's "changes" unique. well, i mean, it' a great song, great message too (btw, changes is essentially i wonder if heaven got a ghetto with a different beat, i think), but there a lot of other rap songs that aren't stews of random shit that pertain to a theme. outside of outkast and outside of changes.

and as for the guy who used master p as an example, if all rap were like master p, i would back you up 100%. thankfully it isn't, though i don't really like ICP at all. i'll go with you on the Saul Williams though, he's cool.

noahfor

well changes is kind of like a state of the union, except about you know, and most of the lines serve a purpose, they aren't just there to rhyme or sound cool, they have meaning, every line works to describe the state of things

now take that aesop rock song, you can't possibly tell me that every line means something, i mean maybe i just dont know how stupid i am, but seriously why are some of those lines in there, what do they mean

also, like many many many non rap songs do not contain the word "i", but i think that a large percent, im talking like 85%, i could be wrong, contain the word "i", refering to the rapper

wordssmith22

someone can back me up or shoot me down for this, but rap has both a very large competitive background and also a large storytelling background, which goes back to the whole griots and stuff. hence the usage of "i" in braggadacio songs and in personal stories and the likes. i mean, whether or not you like it, cuz rap is definitely arrogant to an extent, is up to you and i can see why you wouldn't. but great storytelling can't be denied.

i know you've alreay cited outkast so you must be familiar with their catalogue, but if you haven't already, listen to "art of storytelling, part 1", especially andre's verse.

i agree with you on the aes rock tip, the man makes decent songs but you cant decipher what he's saying half the time. "no regrets" by aes rock is much clearer and a very good song too.

here's a song from an artist you may or not be familiar with. his name is j-live and just check out the lyrics to his song "one for the griot"

if you don't dig that, i've got more great lyrics for you to check out. and there was a thread made awhile back about rap mixtapes for people who don't like rap. check out some of the suggsetions, they're really good

kl0pper

i look at aesop rock as the bob dylan of this generation..
he really is an amazing poet

Arc101

I can't stand most rap - but then again I am getting a bit old. I'm a 80's kid. I think I'll go and listern to some proper music by great artists like Wham, Bros, Milli Vanilli,Culture Club. Actually thinking about it rap is not as bad a I first thought !

kungfool

noahfor:

Ever heard of Brother Ali? Listen to his album - Shadows on the Sun - and get back to me about lyrics meaning nothing.

His album contains no non-passionate sex (in fact he passes on it), while there is some violence (2 fist fights, one he started against a guy who was beating his child and wife, and the other he didn't start) and one drive-by (which he was not involved in), and no drug use.

Also try The Lifesavas - Spirit in Stone.

You rap haters always say the same thing. Why don't you try looking under the radar? J5, The Roots, Dilated Peoples, Common, Taleb Kweli, Mos Def and the like are only the tip of the iceberg. There are a lot of underground acts that I don't like, that doesn't mean they suck.

Or have you ever thought that maybe *gasp* rap isn't for you? I don't like country, polka, emo music, and death metal or whatever it's called, that doesn't mean every artist in those genres sucks.

noahfor

i said ive seen j5, the roots, kweli, and dialated peoples

and yea rap isnt for me, thats why its the i hate rap post, not the rap sucks post

kungfool

Well obviously some rappers have actual talent. As you said in your post, you hate it underground and aboveground.

So far all i see are generalizations, and your dislike of certain groups because they're popular.

Listen to the 2 albums in my first post, and then form an opinion about rap.

Seer666

Perhapps I should revise my statment then. How about "That is where most gangster rappers lose me", as it's the gangster rap that is what drove me away from listening to rapp in the first place. Well, that and one of my friends turned me onto heavy metal back in the day.

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