Daoust

I am looking to purchase a car. Fuel economy and engine longevity are my two foremost concerns. There are two cars in particular that I am looking at.

I want your open, honest opinion, especially if you happen to be an owner of either of these cars...

** EDIT ** All prices in Canadian Tire Dollars, aka Canadian $$

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bookerV

Honest opinions. That Jetta has WAY too many km's on it for that kind of money. Especially if you are looking for a car that will last you. The echo is, well, it's a damn echo!! For 15K you can get some WAY better than an echo with 46k km's on it!!! You can definitely do better. Hold out.

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merkerguitars

Actually the Jetta would be the best bet for fuel economy and reliablity. 160,000km is nothing on a tdi. The do need there maintanence at certain times properly like timing belt. Plus the tdi will always resell alot easier, even with alot of miles, around here they are selling for $2k over blue book easily.

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Martian

'Nother vote for the TDI. Those things go forever and if gas where you are is anything like it is here, $1.20/l vs. $0.98/l for diesel, there's really no contest.

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dirtyrascal7

actually, i used to own a 2000 jetta TDI and i couldn't wait to get rid of it. there were many stupid engineering errors with those cars, so you could be getting into a world of frustration if you go with the jetta. you may luck out and not have any problems as long as you own the car, but i would definitely do a carfax report on any jetta you look at (tdi or not) and visit http://www.tdiclub.com and read up on maintenence and reliability issues with the jetta.

waltert

the echo will likely last you longer without trouble, though I wouldnt get a car with an auto (unless you're into that type of thing).

nein991

The TDI is the better of the two. But at $15,000 it is priced too high.

politicophile

I once heard the Echo described as "the automotive equivalent of a hair shirt." I would definitely caution you away from buying such a POS. Of those two choices, the TDI is better by far.

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Turbotom

I love my TDI.
I'll never buy a gas engine again!

zVp

Have you checked out AutoTrader.ca? Try that site for some other cars. In my opinion, the TDI has way too many kilometers for that price (and considering it's only a 2000 model) and the echo is priced too high for it's class.

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splck

Go for a TDI, but not that one. 160k isn't to many km's, but the price is too high. At least on the West coast it is.

I'd also skip the automatic and go for a standard...but that's just me.

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duck0987

The jetta is what i would go with, I have a 2003 sedan TDI, with 110,000 k on. But $15k is way too much money. I don't think mine is worth $15k Canadian, get a better deal

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TheOtherDave™

TDI in a heartbeat.
Neither car will be fast, but I'd much rather have usable torque and a manual.
An automatic transmission mated to a 1.5L SOHC I-4 is a formula for dissapointment. Toyota auto trannies always upshift far too early in the powerband.

Sue

Hondas IMO last longer and run better.

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Turbotom

No gas motor is outlasting a diesel...way too many working parts on gas cars.
Diesels have no throttle body, no O2 sensors, no distributor/coil/coilpack, no spark plugs, no constant adjustment of the mixture, no eclectic fuel pump, no completely electrical fuel injectors, simple single cam with 2 valves, massive and many head bolts, cooler exhaust most of the time...and if you live in California, smog exempt! Yippee!

Although, the injectors are super delicate--they're under tens of thousands of PSI. Plus anything with a turbo will cause maintenance headaches when they start getting old.

Salomon

Like others mentioned, a very simple choice here:

$15,000 for a car that has 160,000km is nonsense. I wouldn't touch that Toyota either. Keep looking, you can do MUCH better.

Daoust

Wow. Thanks for all the feedback so far, everyone. I have to be honest, my wife is pretty gung ho for the Echo. So while the majority of you agree that a TDI is a far superior choice compared to an Echo, you suggest in this scenario not to get either because they're too high priced. That sucks. Its a lose-lose situation for me. It might even be lose-lose-lose because we'll probably end up buying the Echo, because it's the only thing we can afford right now. Oh the humanity!

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I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
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Uncle Pony

The Toyota Echo was a $10,000 car brand new.

DaVinche

Hey Daoust, have you check out the new 2006 civics? for the price range, i believe its a great car that has great new features.
They even come with NAVI now!

check them out.

'06 civic coupe

'06 Civic Sedan

maybe, Civic Hybrid? kind of out of price range but it give killer gas mileage. Gives up to 650 miles per fill up!!

Uncle Pony

The hybrids only have 80 horse power. You'll won't even be able to pass a scooter.

DaVinche

For your knowledge, it has 85hp with SAE net and 93hp with IMA.

haha your right, it wont even pass a scooter, but i bet it will kick scooters ass in chicken.

btw, echo has 108 hp....not much of a difference between honda hybrid and echo except the gas mileage.

Uncle Pony

So I was 5 HP off. Not bad for off the top of my head. Five HP doesn't make a shittin' bit of difference. Well, it may when you only have 85 to start with.

Uncle Pony

OK, I actually did a little research. Edmunds.com lists the Honda Civic hybrid as 93 HP and 105 ft lbs of torque out of a 1.3 liter engine. They list the Toyota Prius as having 76 HP and 82 ft lbs of torque out of a 1.5 liter engine.

A couple of weeks ago I was looking at hybrids and wasn't impressed with the HP/torque numbers. Pennsylvania has hills and a car with under 100 HP just isn't going to cut it for me. I'd like to crest them doing more than 40 mph.

DaVinche

Have you checked out the new hybrids with 200+ hp? '05 Honda accord hybrid 255hp!

Thats pretty impressive comparing to civic hybrid and echo. lol

You can crest them doing 100mph+ with that hp.

Uncle Pony

I did, but the bang-for-your-buck simply isn't there. The Hyundai Sonata is $9,000 cheaper, gets 20 mpg city 30 mpg highway, and has a 3.3 liter V-6 with 235 HP. For all the more I actually drive I wouldn't save $9,000 in gas over the life of the loan to justify it. I didn't get a deal I liked so I just stuck with my big assed SUV.

I hate small underpowered cars. I checked the hybrids to see what the hoopla was about. They were either too small and underpowered or outrageously expensive. If I break down and spend $30,000+ on a car it'll be on a BMW or Ford Mustang Cobra, not a Honda.

Buk

I don't get it, isn't $15,000 canadian what a BRAND NEW Echo costs?

As far as your wife loving the echo, just take her some place to test drive real cars and she will realize that echos are just a chasis with some plastic on a go-kart engine.

Scorps

A Honda with 255hp? I bet the torque is like 100 if they are lucky

DaVinche

haha, its actually 232 tq.. pretty damn impressive for hybrid.

Just wait till couple years, they be making hybrid sports cars!

Scorps

Scary..im going to stick with the classics