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Old 01-30-2005, 05:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Location: Wilson, NC
1987 Caprice Classic Issues

I'm really poor so here goes:

I have a 1987 Caprice Classic. It's probably the best car I've owned so far. I've owned a pretty decent amount for my age.

It has a good track record so far but it's started to "act up a little" as the people back home say.

Anytime I put it in passing gear for more than 5 seconds the car "chokes" and almost backfires or something. When I have to drive up the mountain to get to my university (Appalachian State University), this is bad. I have to drop it into 2nd gear (it's an automatic) and go 40 MPH up the hill. That's not too bad of a problem. But I'd just like to know what the problem is about the backfire or choking issue.



Like I said, anytime I "give it some gas" and put the car into passing gear, whether it's the passing gear in 2nd, Drive, or Over-Drive, the car starts choking, popping, backfiring, whatever, after 5 or so seconds. It doesn't stop until I let off the gas, come to a complete stop, and let it sit for about 5 minutes.


Anyone heard of anything like this? I don't want to send it to a mechanic and get them to fix everything that's NOT broken, which always seems to happen to me.....


EDIT: 160,000 Miles, regular maintained engine 5.0L V8 small block "Brougham Edition"
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Old 01-30-2005, 09:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well, try some injector cleaner first, sounds like when u get on the gas the injectors might be dirty or misefire causing that weird sound/feeling. If that doesnt fix things up, id look at a tranny issue. Check the tranny fluid first, if thats not it ur tranny might have some issues. Or dare i say it, this could be a combination of a couple issues, one for the whole shifting problem and goin slow up the hill, and another for the misfiring etc. If u try some stuff, and post results, ill see if i can think of anything else.
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Old 01-30-2005, 10:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Is it carbed or fuel-injected?
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Old 01-31-2005, 06:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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That SHOULD be a TBI 305. I would go with a plugged injector, plugged cat, or just needing a tune-up. Do plugs, wires, cap, & rotor, and see if that helps. If it fixes it, it's under $100, if it doesn't, it probably needed it anyways.
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Old 01-31-2005, 12:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEI37
That SHOULD be a TBI 305. I would go with a plugged injector, plugged cat, or just needing a tune-up. Do plugs, wires, cap, & rotor, and see if that helps. If it fixes it, it's under $100, if it doesn't, it probably needed it anyways.

English please

I'm a computer guy. I'll try all those but I need to know what they are first What does plugged mean. And cat? Is that catalytic convertor?

What's cap and wires also
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Old 01-31-2005, 12:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irseg
Is it carbed or fuel-injected?

No fuel injection. Carburator
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Old 01-31-2005, 01:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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carbed presents a bit more of a problem in my eyes. U might have a clogged jet (a jet is a lil nozzle in the carb that atomizes fuel so it can be mixed with air). The only way i have ever dealt with that is to take apart and clean the whole carb. Any guys with more carb experience willing to chime in? Oh, and by the way, cap and wire refers to the distributor cap (not too expensive, just go to a parts store and say u need a cap for ur make and model and year of car), and the spark plug wires (same story, just tell em make etc, both are easy to replace and fairly low cost.)
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Old 01-31-2005, 05:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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ok there's a good amount of cheap alternatives in the thread so far. I think I'm gonna tell the mechanic guy (or either get my dad to help me do it) to:

1. replace the spark plug wires
2. replace the distributor cap



I already put some carburator fluid stuff in there when I bought it. It's not quite time to put more in it yet (lasts for 3000 miles it said).

Also, I'm fairly positive it's not a transmission issue. The sound definitely sounds like it's coming from the engine (via exhaust), not the tranmission. But I won't keep that out of the picture.
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Old 01-31-2005, 05:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Also, are you sure it's a carburetor? I ask because '87 was around the time GM made the transition to throttle-body injection. It looks pretty much identical to a carbed engine (same old-fashioned round air filter, intake manifold, etc.) except there is a single fuel injector where the carb used to be.

One thing that will cause those kinds of problems regardless of carb or FI is a stuck EGR valve. It opens to let exhaust gases back into the intake (so any unburned gas can have another shot in order to reduce hydrocarbon emissions) during steady cruise, but it will make the engine buck and surge if it's still open when you jump on the gas. It won't really cause any problems if it's stuck shut aside from worse gas mileage, but a stuck-open EGR valve will also often cause the engine to run rough and/or stall when it's cold. Has that been a problem?

My '88 turbo Thunderbird used to eat spark plug wires. It'd run great until I tromped on the gas, then it'd quit accelerating and vibrate like I was running over railroad tracks. New wires always solved that problem.

I'd start out with a basic tuneup (plugs, wires, cap, rotor) since it's simple and it's probably due for one. If that doesn't do the trick then make very sure which fuel system it has and we'll go from there.
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Old 01-31-2005, 07:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm 100% positive it's carburated. And the part about a stuck EGR valve sounds close to my problem - the engine definitely bucks and surges when I jump on the gas for a period of time.


I remember reading in the manual I believe it was a carburated engine. But also, I have to pat the gas for a second to get it to fire as well (while cranking the car). Rather than flooding the engine which I'm told it would do if it was fuel injected, the car cranks right up when I "give it some gas."
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Old 01-31-2005, 07:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If you live in a state where emissions are not an issue you can ditch the egr and the cat easily.
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Old 02-01-2005, 11:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I wish i could ditch emissions gear on my car....legally. Sadly, Merkerguitars u and i live in WI, so we have to pass those pesky tests every 2 years, unless u know how to get around it.
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Old 02-01-2005, 03:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetRdone
I wish i could ditch emissions gear on my car....legally. Sadly, Merkerguitars u and i live in WI, so we have to pass those pesky tests every 2 years, unless u know how to get around it.
You must live near milwaukee area, I live about 20 miles from the twin cities and there is no sort of emissions testing around here.
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Old 02-01-2005, 05:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yeah, another Wisconsinite here, and no emissions testing for me.
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Old 02-01-2005, 08:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I had a problem with one of those once: it was stolen out of my driveway less than 24 hours after I borrowed it from a friend of my dad's. He owned a dealership so he got the insurance money and didn't care, but boy did he laugh. It was purple with a silver fender and a yellow front panel. It was found in South Atlanta with no motor, no tranny, no wheels and the radio intact. Of course that was the night I left my wallet in my car...
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Old 02-01-2005, 09:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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tune up,including all filters fuel filter ,air filter pcv valve, look for cracked or broken vacume lines, or check bad acclerator pump in carb.get info and post back
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Old 02-01-2005, 10:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I had that same car, and the same issue. Luckilly i just sold it.
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Old 02-02-2005, 06:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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U guys from WI with no emissions are evil. lol Ya, im near milwuakee and have to pass the tests, there are ways to get around em, but its alot of works sometimes.
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Old 03-13-2005, 06:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I never did get anything fixed on the car. I'm doing the "wait 'til it fucks up" method where you just drive it 'til it quits, then get it fixed. Works pretty well unless you're far from anything on the road.

However, 4 or 5 days ago it started doing this again:

<i>"Anytime I put it in passing gear for more than 5 seconds the car "chokes" and almost backfires or something. When I have to drive up the mountain to get to my university (Appalachian State University), this is bad. I have to drop it into 2nd gear (it's an automatic) and go 40 MPH up the hill. That's not too bad of a problem. But I'd just like to know what the problem is about the backfire or choking issue.



Like I said, anytime I "give it some gas" and put the car into passing gear, whether it's the passing gear in 2nd, Drive, or Over-Drive, the car starts choking, popping, backfiring, whatever, after 5 or so seconds. It doesn't stop until I let off the gas, come to a complete stop, and let it sit for about 5 minutes. "</i>


Except this time, it QUIT in the middle of the huge hill leading up the mountain. I had to come to a stop with traffic flying by me, put it in Park, and crank it up again, and drive 25 MPH up the rest of the mountain. Almost like it's not getting gas or something? I don't know. Maybe this clears the problem up for you mechanic guys out there?
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Old 03-14-2005, 09:29 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Really strange stuff. It HAS to be a fuel problem. To my knowledge its like the only thing that would cause all ur symptoms...especially dying on a hill. Ill have to think about which part of the fuel system, after all it sounds like youve tried the basic tune up stuff.
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Old 03-15-2005, 10:51 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetRdone
Really strange stuff. It HAS to be a fuel problem. To my knowledge its like the only thing that would cause all ur symptoms...especially dying on a hill. Ill have to think about which part of the fuel system, after all it sounds like youve tried the basic tune up stuff.

one more thing I can't believe I forgot to mention: my car ALWAYS smells STRONGLY (I mean ten feet away) of gasoline. Especially after I drive it and get out of it. Smells like it's soaked in gasoline. It doesn't leak gasoline, I've checked. But it smells like it. Bad. You can smell it on the inside too.
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Sounds like it must be running like INSANELY rich...if it smokes alot, that may explain. Hmm, with everything weve discussed on this thread, its draining my brain as what could cause this. I mean, if the car has a MAF, and if its reading like WAY OFF somehow, that could maybe cause the computer to think it needs to inject more gas. But i mean thats pretty rare. Anyone else help me brainstorm here.
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Old 03-15-2005, 02:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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In 1987, the caprice 305 had a 4 barrel carb with the closed loop system. At 160,000 miles, you could be facing one of a number of issues. The strong gasoline smell you mention suggests flooding. Rochester carbs from that era had a problem with wearing of the secondary metering rods, causing a fuel dump under hard accelleration. A good carb rebuild would cure this (most handy do-it-yourself-ers can do it). This course would also eliminate any problems associated with debris or sediment clogging fuel ports.

An engine with that many miles might have a slightly stretched timing chain (or worn gears) that, combined with a slightly mis-adjusted initial timing, could cause something like your problem. A partially plugged EGR valve may be the culprit, too.

Before spending any money: in a darkened garage (or at night) start the engine and let it idle. Use a spray bottle of clear water to mist the engine compartment. If you see arcing around the distributor and spark plug wires, follow the previous advice and perform a complete tune-up. You might fix it cheap. (Don't forget to replace the fuel filter )

Have fun!
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Old 03-15-2005, 08:10 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'd start by replacing the fuel filter and rebuilding or replacing the carb. After that, plugs and wires would be next, and after that I'd kick the EGR system's ass with a wrench (worked for my mom's car, I just hit it until it started working.)
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Old 03-17-2005, 08:46 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redjake
one more thing I can't believe I forgot to mention: my car ALWAYS smells STRONGLY (I mean ten feet away) of gasoline. Especially after I drive it and get out of it. Smells like it's soaked in gasoline. It doesn't leak gasoline, I've checked. But it smells like it. Bad. You can smell it on the inside too.
Ya thats a carb my van does that sometimes if i pump it to much, you might need your carb rebuilt, i had a response problem had my old Holly rebuilt and it ran like new
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Old 03-17-2005, 09:11 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I would definitely replace my feul filter before anything else....you may get lucky and just have some crap in it that is blocking it when you get on the gas. If it's backfiring, then I'd start looking at timing issues.
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Old 03-17-2005, 05:18 PM   #27 (permalink)
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What exactly is timing issues?
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Old 03-17-2005, 05:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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ignition timing. you may have a worn timing chain and gear, your timing may be improperly set (the distributor could be a little loose and may have retarded or advanced the timing beyond the point where it runs properly) has your gas mileage suffered since this started happening? Is your car giving off black smoke at any time?
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Old 03-17-2005, 11:01 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj2112
ignition timing. you may have a worn timing chain and gear, your timing may be improperly set (the distributor could be a little loose and may have retarded or advanced the timing beyond the point where it runs properly) has your gas mileage suffered since this started happening? Is your car giving off black smoke at any time?

horrible gas mileage. like "worse than a caprice classic should have" gas mileage. also, the car won't turn off a lot of times. it's revved up so high when it's idling that when you turn the ignition off the car starts clicking over and over and it cranks back up again. sweet. I have to rev the engine for 5 or 10 minutes (not rev limiting, but just padding the gas) to get the idle to set back low again, then it turns off fine.


no black smoke though (that I'm aware of)


here's a list so far of the symptoms:

1. Bad gas mileage
2. Car always smells like gasoline
3. Backfires, chokes, turns off when put in passing gear or going up a steep hill
4. Won't turn off unless the car has been driven for at least 20 minutes (clicks violently and cranks back up again)
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:14 AM   #30 (permalink)
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have you done anything to try to fix this problem? Had you or anybody else done any work to the car shortly before this started happening? The more I read, the more this sounds like it's related to the fuel system (carburetor, fuel pump, fuel filter). It sounds like it's acting like it's getting too much fuel into the intake. Is your carburetor electronically controlled? Although its not specifically part of the fuel system, a plugged catalytic converter is also something I'd suspect.
I had a similar problem on another car, in turned out to be some debris had gotten between the venturi on the carburetor(as your looking at the top of the carb that's the the little round deal in the middle of it) and the wall of the carb so it messed up the airflow and the onboard computer just kept dumping more and more gas in. That may be all it is, although that is just a total shot in the dark.
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:24 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj2112
have you done anything to try to fix this problem? Had you or anybody else done any work to the car shortly before this started happening? The more I read, the more this sounds like it's related to the fuel system (carburetor, fuel pump, fuel filter). It sounds like it's acting like it's getting too much fuel into the intake. Is your carburetor electronically controlled? Although its not specifically part of the fuel system, a plugged catalytic converter is also something I'd suspect.
I had a similar problem on another car, in turned out to be some debris had gotten between the venturi on the carburetor(as your looking at the top of the carb that's the the little round deal in the middle of it) and the wall of the carb so it messed up the airflow and the onboard computer just kept dumping more and more gas in. That may be all it is, although that is just a total shot in the dark.

I need to write this stufd down I don't care how stupid I look, taking a list to the mechanic of things to check for is a great idea. Better than those guys fixing the wrong damn part as usual
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Old 01-20-2006, 07:11 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I know this is way later, but you were right CJ2112. It was the fuel pump the entire time. My car broke down 3 or 4 months after this original post, I had the fuel pump replaced, it's been fine ever since
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Old 01-20-2006, 07:14 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redjake
one more thing I can't believe I forgot to mention: my car ALWAYS smells STRONGLY (I mean ten feet away) of gasoline. Especially after I drive it and get out of it. Smells like it's soaked in gasoline. It doesn't leak gasoline, I've checked. But it smells like it. Bad. You can smell it on the inside too.
eh, I've having fun with this old thread. turns out, there's been a hole in my gas tank since I bought the car. the hole gradually got bigger 'til over Christmas break, my dad looked under my car and it was pissing gasoline out onto the driveway. no wonder I was getting such shitty gas mileage
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Old 01-20-2006, 02:19 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Glad to hear ya found the problem!
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Old 01-24-2006, 07:24 PM   #35 (permalink)
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anyone know how much of a job it would be to put a big block chevy in my caprice classic? assuming I have the right tools (engine lift, etc.) to do it and the right know-how - would I have to molest and mutilate the engine compartment or would it fit relatively easy without much butchering? maybe an old monte carlo engine (454?)
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Old 01-24-2006, 07:42 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
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anyone know how much of a job it would be to put a big block chevy in my caprice classic? assuming I have the right tools (engine lift, etc.) to do it and the right know-how - would I have to molest and mutilate the engine compartment or would it fit relatively easy without much butchering? maybe an old monte carlo engine (454?)
Done a Buick 455 in a grand prix (same style chassis, pretty much needs the motor mounts, exhaust is a squeeze, and you might have to remove your heater box.
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:00 PM   #37 (permalink)
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You're running a small block right now, should be a 305. Swapping to thh big block isn't too much of a challenge.. like merkerguitars said, you're looking at custom mounts and exhaust, other than that you shouldn't have too much trouble.

I've never done a Caprice specifically, but moving from a small block to a big block is pretty common; your biggest issue is probably going to be gas mileage. There aren't many big block daily drivers on the road these days.
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