Any Duc Fans? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Spyder_Venom · 11-16-2004, 07:03 PM

Okay, I'll admit it, I don't have the balls to race bikes but that doesn't mean I don't have the love for them. Are there any other duc fans on the TPF? Any other owners?

Post'em if you got them, lets see those Ducs!

merkerguitars · 11-16-2004, 07:19 PM

Damn I love them...never rode them but for sure it will be my next bike, that desmodromic valve system is what I love the best.

RaDiAn · 11-17-2004, 09:52 AM

I lov them too! O the sound, just sounds so cool. Couple years back at the Philly PA Bike Expo, was able to have one on one with many of the bikes there. For some reason I was really like the look and feel of the Duc, but please don't get me wrong I enjoy all styles & makes of bikes. Maybe some day I will own one.......

jfelco · 11-17-2004, 10:28 AM

the 748 is my dream bike. 99-01!!!
this is my current bike.... maybe one day ill own a duc!!

how do i post a picture??

Ilow · 11-17-2004, 05:30 PM

I'd love a nice monster, nothing fancy, just something with a little style and some get up an go.

Spyder_Venom · 11-17-2004, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfelco

the 748 is my dream bike. 99-01!!!
this is my current bike.... maybe one day ill own a duc!!

how do i post a picture??

If you have it hosted go

[ img ] url [ /img ]

Spyder_Venom · 11-17-2004, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilow

I'd love a nice monster, nothing fancy, just something with a little style and some get up an go.

Mmmmmm S4

Cycler · 11-18-2004, 04:42 PM

One 998 in Yellow please, although the 748 is drop dead sexy as well.

Not sure I would trade my 04 R1 but I would like to try a Duc.

ziadel · 11-20-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merkerguitars

that desmodromic valve system is what I love the best.

the desmo system is sweet, until you have to have it serviced

what is it, every 3k miles they need to be done? and on the 916 family that entails pulling the engine

Cycler · 11-20-2004, 01:33 PM

Yeah not cheap and does require rather frequent expensive adjustments but there style is really hard to beat.

Spyder_Venom · 11-20-2004, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

the desmo system is sweet, until you have to have it serviced

what is it, every 3k miles they need to be done? and on the 916 family that entails pulling the engine

I'm not sure where you are getting your information but valve adjustments are required every 6k, cam belts every 12 and the motor doesn't have to be pulled to do any of that. To be honest, nothing is hard at all, it just requires the right tools. The adjustment of the valves is what takes the most time, inspecting is only 3 hours - book. To adjust a desmodromic valve you don't have a nut on top of the rocker to tight or loosen to adjust the lash. You have a opener and closer shim that mechanically adjusts this - thats what is time consuming. Checking the valves is quick, its when you need to sand/grind down these shims to get them to just the right size for correct lash. To the best of my knowlegde there is only 2 size shims so it is almost impossible to not have to sand one down, they just never fit perfect out of the bag.

ziadel · 11-21-2004, 02:17 AM

this will sum it up:

Quote:

While it has been years since bugs have emigrated with Ducati's. But the machines still have their quirks. Take the Desmodromic valvetrain-please. On a regular engine, the egg-shaped camshaft lobe turns and pushes down on the valve to open it. As the cam turns back to the fat part of the egg a coiled metal spring wrapped around the valve closes it. It's a simple system and it works, but that hasn't always been the case. After WWII, engine speeds increased beyond the capabilities of the metal used for valve springs. As springs began breaking with greater regularity, the Mercedes Benz race team invested millions in researching Desmodromic actuation. This was (and remains) a Rube Goldbergian system that uses one cam lobe to push the valve down and a second with a rocker arm attached to the valve to lift it up in place of a spring. Mercedes, who somehow rationalized a car with gullwing doors in the same period, ultimately rejected Desmo as too complicated.

Ten years later Ducati adopted it for their motorcycles and it remains on all Ducs to this day. Never mind that years before it debuted Germany and Japan had found a nickel formula for valve springs that allowed astronomical engine speeds without Desmo. Today the system is a handicap on Ducati racing motorcycles. Where comparable bikes can reliably run at beyond 12,500 rpm the Ducati's risk destruction beyond 11,500. That seemingly small difference is largely credited to Honda's advantage that lead to a World Superbike Title in the first year of racing its RC-51 "Duck Hunter".

None of this matters to the Ducati faithful, for them it would be blasphemy to abandon the ass-backwards solution to a problem that hasn't existed for decades-even if it does create a problem now. But remembering my last valve adjustment on a 916 is what burned a hole in my head after I answered the phone. Step one in doing a routine valve adjustment on a 916, 748 or 996 is removing the engine from the motorcycle. This isn't in the shop manual-it is a shortcut mechanics have come up with in the field.

It doesn't get better after that. The clearance between the rocker arms and the valve assembly is set with a removable metal shim that sits in a bucket that covers the valve spring. The shims come in different thicknesses and you replace it with the one that brings the clearances within tolerance. That's a common setup on motorcycle engines today, but only Ducati offers replacement shims in "rough" sizes. To save a couple of lira on having to stock a lot of sizes, Ducati only offers a few and has the mechanic machine them down to the needed thickness. That makes the Ducati you see on this page (and its predecessors) the only motorcycle where you need access to a machine shop to do a tune up. (It is also why the typical bill for servicing a liquid cooled Ducati is north of $300 if the shims need to be replaced.)

plz note, servicing DOHC Duc's is a lot more expensive then the SOHC Duc's...

I still love em tho, and would own one if I had the cash...

but I wont have that kind of cash anytime soon and I'll be pleased as punch with a new RC51 in spring

Spyder_Venom · 11-21-2004, 05:52 PM

I don't know who that guys is, but I highly doubt he has ever owned one let alone worked on a ducati. There isn't a professional duc mechanic that I have ever met that would pull a motor do to valve lash. I have done these vavles many times, hell I would take a desmo vavle over a R1 ANY day of the week when it comes to valve adjustment. You just need know know and understand the system - and have the correct tools. There isn't any guess work using a bucket/shim assembly and that makes adjustment very easy penidng you have a micrometer. You can run a desmo motor over 11.5k - mine goes to 13k all the time and remember these are twins, not a I4 with a little ass stoke. What is the redline on a RC51, if I recall it's only 10k-ish.

Back in the mid 90's when the 916 and then the 916SPS came out, there wasn't a bike that could touch them. But what a shock, they ran into money troubles and defently didn't keep up with development from as early as the late 90's to current. I've ridden a couple RC's, they are defently a nice bike but they just are not the same as a duc - nothing I've ever ridden handles like a Ducati.

The maintanence is defently over played. These bikes come apart a lot smoother than any jap bike I have owned. Granted the service intervals on jap bikes are 12k-25K pending on the model, but I wouldn't have it any other way. These bikes are very well engineered for the most part and are cake to work on.

ziadel · 11-23-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder_Venom

I don't know who that guys is, but I highly doubt he has ever owned one let alone worked on a ducati. There isn't a professional duc mechanic that I have ever met that would pull a motor do to valve lash. I have done these vavles many times, hell I would take a desmo vavle over a R1 ANY day of the week when it comes to valve adjustment. You just need know know and understand the system - and have the correct tools. There isn't any guess work using a bucket/shim assembly and that makes adjustment very easy penidng you have a micrometer. You can run a desmo motor over 11.5k - mine goes to 13k all the time and remember these are twins, not a I4 with a little ass stoke. What is the redline on a RC51, if I recall it's only 10k-ish.

Back in the mid 90's when the 916 and then the 916SPS came out, there wasn't a bike that could touch them. But what a shock, they ran into money troubles and defently didn't keep up with development from as early as the late 90's to current. I've ridden a couple RC's, they are defently a nice bike but they just are not the same as a duc - nothing I've ever ridden handles like a Ducati.

The maintanence is defently over played. These bikes come apart a lot smoother than any jap bike I have owned. Granted the service intervals on jap bikes are 12k-25K pending on the model, but I wouldn't have it any other way. These bikes are very well engineered for the most part and are cake to work on.

I don't want to get into a huge argument here, but read up on the changes that they made to the 999, ducati ADMITTED the bike was a pain in the ass to work on, and made a very big deal about how they made everything 100x easier to service here...

jesus man, just look at the spaghetti that is the exhaust system on your bike and tell me thats not a little over the top?

But I do agree with you, they are beautiful bikes, I have only ridden one older 748, and while the engine was not up to par with 600 I-4 power (because it was older mainly) the duc is the only bike that I have ever ridden that leaned into the turns harden when you applied the brakes mid turn...

Spyder_Venom · 11-23-2004, 07:11 PM

The exahust strings through the bike yes, but it comes apart very easy and drops out easy. Hell, the bikes body work is put on with duntz 1/4 turns - to me that is easy. Just becuase there is a lot of things in front of what you need to work on - that doesn't mean its hard - it just takes time. The newer 999 isn't easier, they just made things more accessable. In order to do X, there isn't as many things in your way. A 916 is built in layers, not the best way to do things - but the way they were woven together does make sense and work. Once again, it's time, not difficulty.

I want to make it clear that I am not disagreeing with you, just somethings that you said were very, very overexaggerated. There is enough mis-representation of this brand (well, any brand now in days). So I try to provide truthful, correct numbers and assesments of what it takes for maintenance on this bike.

jfelco · 11-23-2004, 10:39 PM

i love working on my f4i, but its a pain with the screws adn bolts. maybe ill convert to 1/4 d rings like the ducs.

i think the more maintenance a bike needs teh better, at least for me, the piece of mind i get from working on my own bike often helps me when i run at the track.

Moonduck · 11-24-2004, 11:00 AM

Like the Ducs. For some reason, the Monster Dark from the 90's calls to me...

thadon · 12-02-2004, 09:48 PM

I am w/ moonduck.. the Monster Dark is sweet, I also like the S4, will be in the market for a Duc this summer

merkerguitars · 12-08-2004, 01:25 AM

Ok this might seem like a silly questions. I'm not big into the models of teh ducs...but what can I get for a nice used one? model and price?

Spyder_Venom · 12-09-2004, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merkerguitars

Ok this might seem like a silly questions. I'm not big into the models of teh ducs...but what can I get for a nice used one? model and price?

It would really depend on the model you wanted but say a good 748 (like my style) would go for 5-6k this time of the year, low miles in decent condition up to 8k if it was perfect with some options. The 916/996s you will almost always see go for 8k+ (every now and then you can find some ratty stuff for under that, but a good bike at that price seems to be far and few between). The newer 999/749 are still spending, 8-9k (but more like 10+) minium for a 749 and 11k+ for a 999 from what I have seen.

The monsters, depending on engine size will go anywhere from 3.5k up to 8-9k if its a S4. The ST2, and ST3's seem to go, once again pending on condition etc. in the 5-7k area. I haven't seen too many ST4s or Multistratas sell used so I have no clue. Was there something in specific you were looking at?

AquaFox · 12-09-2004, 04:12 PM

i soo want one of those bikes in red

Knoweffects · 12-13-2004, 02:59 PM

love ducks, saveing up to possibly get a 999 used, sex on wheels

clonmult · 12-14-2004, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cycler

Yeah not cheap and does require rather frequent expensive adjustments but there style is really hard to beat.

You can get the style at reduced cost - a Cagiva Mito looks like a 748/916, but with a 30bhp 125cc engine :

Look good, but don't quite have the sound.

Cycler · 12-14-2004, 08:07 AM

Checked the other day on 998s, they are going used between 8500 and 11000. I really liked the idea of the 998 FE (Final Edition) model for 04 but they are going for 14K and up. Someday maybe.

omega2K4 · 12-14-2004, 08:02 PM

A buddy of mine has 3 Ducatis, and is thinking about getting of those new 1000DS models.

11-16-2004, 07:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Spyder_Venom Psycho Location: MN	Any Duc Fans? Okay, I'll admit it, I don't have the balls to race bikes but that doesn't mean I don't have the love for them. Are there any other duc fans on the TPF? Any other owners? Post'em if you got them, lets see those Ducs! __________________ The local track whore

11-16-2004, 07:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Damn I love them...never rode them but for sure it will be my next bike, that desmodromic valve system is what I love the best. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

11-17-2004, 05:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ilow Junkie Location: Pats country	I'd love a nice monster, nothing fancy, just something with a little style and some get up an go. __________________ "Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about" --Sam Harris

11-18-2004, 04:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cycler Float on.... Alright Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains, i.e. Oklahoma	One 998 in Yellow please, although the 748 is drop dead sexy as well. Not sure I would trade my 04 R1 but I would like to try a Duc. __________________ "I'm not even supposed to be here today." "I assure you we're open."

11-20-2004, 01:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cycler Float on.... Alright Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains, i.e. Oklahoma	Yeah not cheap and does require rather frequent expensive adjustments but there style is really hard to beat. __________________ "I'm not even supposed to be here today." "I assure you we're open."

11-17-2004, 09:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
RaDiAn Addict	I lov them too! O the sound, just sounds so cool. Couple years back at the Philly PA Bike Expo, was able to have one on one with many of the bikes there. For some reason I was really like the look and feel of the Duc, but please don't get me wrong I enjoy all styles & makes of bikes. Maybe some day I will own one.......

11-17-2004, 10:28 AM	#4 (permalink)
jfelco Crazy Location: north america	the 748 is my dream bike. 99-01!!! this is my current bike.... maybe one day ill own a duc!! how do i post a picture??

11-21-2004, 05:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
Spyder_Venom Psycho Location: MN	I don't know who that guys is, but I highly doubt he has ever owned one let alone worked on a ducati. There isn't a professional duc mechanic that I have ever met that would pull a motor do to valve lash. I have done these vavles many times, hell I would take a desmo vavle over a R1 ANY day of the week when it comes to valve adjustment. You just need know know and understand the system - and have the correct tools. There isn't any guess work using a bucket/shim assembly and that makes adjustment very easy penidng you have a micrometer. You can run a desmo motor over 11.5k - mine goes to 13k all the time and remember these are twins, not a I4 with a little ass stoke. What is the redline on a RC51, if I recall it's only 10k-ish. Back in the mid 90's when the 916 and then the 916SPS came out, there wasn't a bike that could touch them. But what a shock, they ran into money troubles and defently didn't keep up with development from as early as the late 90's to current. I've ridden a couple RC's, they are defently a nice bike but they just are not the same as a duc - nothing I've ever ridden handles like a Ducati. The maintanence is defently over played. These bikes come apart a lot smoother than any jap bike I have owned. Granted the service intervals on jap bikes are 12k-25K pending on the model, but I wouldn't have it any other way. These bikes are very well engineered for the most part and are cake to work on. __________________ The local track whore

11-23-2004, 07:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
Spyder_Venom Psycho Location: MN	The exahust strings through the bike yes, but it comes apart very easy and drops out easy. Hell, the bikes body work is put on with duntz 1/4 turns - to me that is easy. Just becuase there is a lot of things in front of what you need to work on - that doesn't mean its hard - it just takes time. The newer 999 isn't easier, they just made things more accessable. In order to do X, there isn't as many things in your way. A 916 is built in layers, not the best way to do things - but the way they were woven together does make sense and work. Once again, it's time, not difficulty. I want to make it clear that I am not disagreeing with you, just somethings that you said were very, very overexaggerated. There is enough mis-representation of this brand (well, any brand now in days). So I try to provide truthful, correct numbers and assesments of what it takes for maintenance on this bike. __________________ The local track whore

11-23-2004, 10:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
jfelco Crazy Location: north america	i love working on my f4i, but its a pain with the screws adn bolts. maybe ill convert to 1/4 d rings like the ducs. i think the more maintenance a bike needs teh better, at least for me, the piece of mind i get from working on my own bike often helps me when i run at the track.

11-24-2004, 11:00 AM	#17 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	Like the Ducs. For some reason, the Monster Dark from the 90's calls to me...

12-02-2004, 09:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
thadon Cruisin thru life Location: Alpharetta, GA	I am w/ moonduck.. the Monster Dark is sweet, I also like the S4, will be in the market for a Duc this summer

12-08-2004, 01:25 AM	#19 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Ok this might seem like a silly questions. I'm not big into the models of teh ducs...but what can I get for a nice used one? model and price? __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

12-09-2004, 04:12 PM	#21 (permalink)
AquaFox WaterDog	i soo want one of those bikes in red __________________ ...AquaFox...

12-13-2004, 02:59 PM	#22 (permalink)
Knoweffects Tilted Location: san marcos CA	love ducks, saveing up to possibly get a 999 used, sex on wheels __________________ no h8 only <3

12-14-2004, 08:07 AM	#24 (permalink)
Cycler Float on.... Alright Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains, i.e. Oklahoma	Checked the other day on 998s, they are going used between 8500 and 11000. I really liked the idea of the 998 FE (Final Edition) model for 04 but they are going for 14K and up. Someday maybe. __________________ "I'm not even supposed to be here today." "I assure you we're open."

12-14-2004, 08:02 PM	#25 (permalink)
omega2K4 Natalie Portman is sexy. Location: The Outer Rim	A buddy of mine has 3 Ducatis, and is thinking about getting of those new 1000DS models. __________________ "While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx