TURBOCHARGER - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

luisloja · 09-23-2004, 10:22 AM

HOW DOES A TURBOCHARGER WORK? AND HOW TO CHOOSE THE CORRECT ONE? IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO INSTALL ON IN A MUSCLE CAR?

onetime2 · 09-23-2004, 10:40 AM

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

Quote:

What Is a Turbocharger?
Turbochargers are a type of forced induction system. They compress the air flowing into the engine (see How Car Engines Work for a description of airflow in a normal engine). The advantage of compressing the air is that it lets the engine squeeze more air into a cylinder, and more air means that more fuel can be added. Therefore, you get more power from each explosion in each cylinder. A turbocharged engine produces more power overall than the same engine without the charging. This can significantly improve the power-to-weight ratio for the engine (see How Horsepower Works for details).
In order to achieve this boost, the turbocharger uses the exhaust flow from the engine to spin a turbine, which in turn spins an air pump. The turbine in the turbocharger spins at speeds of up to 150,000 rotations per minute (rpm) -- that's about 30 times faster than most car engines can go. And since it is hooked up to the exhaust, the temperatures in the turbine are also very high.

Basics
One of the surest ways to get more power out of an engine is to increase the amount of air and fuel that it can burn. One way to do this is to add cylinders or make the current cylinders bigger. Sometimes these changes may not be feasible -- a turbo can be a simpler, more compact way to add power, especially for an aftermarket accessory.

Turbochargers allow an engine to burn more fuel and air by packing more into the existing cylinders. The typical boost provided by a turbocharger is 6 to 8 pounds per square inch (psi). Since normal atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level, you can see that you are getting about 50 percent more air into the engine. Therefore, you would expect to get 50 percent more power. It's not perfectly efficient, so you might get a 30- to 40-percent improvement instead.

One cause of the inefficiency comes from the fact that the power to spin the turbine is not free. Having a turbine in the exhaust flow increases the restriction in the exhaust. This means that on the exhaust stroke, the engine has to push against a higher back-pressure. This subtracts a little bit of power from the cylinders that are firing at the same time.

Turbos on High
A turbocharger helps at high altitudes, where the air is less dense. Normal engines will experience reduced power at high altitudes because for each stroke of the piston, the engine will get a smaller mass of air. A turbocharged engine may also have reduced power, but the reduction will be less dramatic because the thinner air is easier for the turbocharger to pump.
Older cars with carburetors automatically increase the fuel rate to match the increased airflow going into the cylinders. Modern cars with fuel injection will also do this to a point. The fuel-injection system relies on oxygen sensors in the exhaust to determine if the air-to-fuel ratio is correct, so these systems will automatically increase the fuel flow if a turbo is added.

If a turbocharger with too much boost is added to a fuel-injected car, the system may not provide enough fuel -- either the software programmed into the controller will not allow it, or the pump and injectors are not capable of supplying it. In this case, other modifications will have to be made to get the maximum benefit from the turbocharger.

How It Works
The turbocharger is bolted to the exhaust manifold of the engine. The exhaust from the cylinders spins the turbine, which works like a gas turbine engine. The turbine is connected by a shaft to the compressor, which is located between the air filter and the intake manifold. The compressor pressurizes the air going into the pistons.

The exhaust from the cylinders passes through the turbine blades, causing the turbine to spin. The more exhaust that goes through the blades, the faster they spin.

On the other end of the shaft that the turbine is attached to, the compressor pumps air into the cylinders. The compressor is a type of centrifugal pump -- it draws air in at the center of its blades and flings it outward as it spins.

In order to handle speeds of up to 150,000 rpm, the turbine shaft has to be supported very carefully. Most bearings would explode at speeds like this, so most turbochargers use a fluid bearing. This type of bearing supports the shaft on a thin layer of oil that is constantly pumped around the shaft. This serves two purposes: It cools the shaft and some of the other turbocharger parts, and it allows the shaft to spin without much friction.

There are many tradeoffs involved in designing a turbocharger for an engine. In the next section, we'll look at some of these compromises and see how they affect performance.

Design Considerations
Before we talk about the design tradeoffs, we need to talk about some of the possible problems with turbochargers that the designers must take into account.
Too Much Boost
With air being pumped into the cylinders under pressure by the turbocharger, and then being further compressed by the piston (see How Car Engines Work for a demonstration), there is more danger of knock. Knocking happens because as you compress air, the temperature of the air increases. The temperature may increase enough to ignite the fuel before the spark plug fires. Cars with turbochargers often need to run on higher octane fuel to avoid knock. If the boost pressure is really high, the compression ratio of the engine may have to be reduced to avoid knocking.

Turbo Lag
One of the main problems with turbochargers is that they do not provide an immediate power boost when you step on the gas. It takes a second for the turbine to get up to speed before boost is produced. This results in a feeling of lag when you step on the gas, and then the car lunges ahead when the turbo gets moving.

One way to decrease turbo lag is to reduce the inertia of the rotating parts, mainly by reducing their weight. This allows the turbine and compressor to accelerate quickly, and start providing boost earlier.

Small vs. Large Turbocharger
One sure way to reduce the inertia of the turbine and compressor is to make the turbocharger smaller. A small turbocharger will provide boost more quickly and at lower engine speeds, but may not be able to provide much boost at higher engine speeds when a really large volume of air is going into the engine. It is also in danger of spinning too quickly at higher engine speeds, when lots of exhaust is passing through the turbine.

A large turbocharger can provide lots of boost at high engine speeds, but may have bad turbo lag because of how long it takes to accelerate its heavier turbine and compressor.

In the next section, we'll take a look at some of the tricks used to overcome these challenges.

Optional Turbo Features

The Wastegate
Most automotive turbochargers have a wastegate, which allows the use of a smaller turbocharger to reduce lag while preventing it from spinning too quickly at high engine speeds. The wastegate is a valve that allows the exhaust to bypass the turbine blades. The wastegate senses the boost pressure. If the pressure gets too high, it could be an indicator that the turbine is spinning too quickly, so the wastegate bypasses some of the exhaust around the turbine blades, allowing the blades to slow down.

Ball Bearings
Some turbochargers use ball bearings instead of fluid bearings to support the turbine shaft. But these are not your regular ball bearings -- they are super-precise bearings made of advanced materials to handle the speeds and temperatures of the turbocharger. They allow the turbine shaft to spin with less friction than the fluid bearings used in most turbochargers. They also allow a slightly smaller, lighter shaft to be used. This helps the turbocharger accelerate more quickly, further reducing turbo lag.

Ceramic Turbine Blades
Ceramic turbine blades are lighter than the steel blades used in most turbochargers. Again, this allows the turbine to spin up to speed faster, which reduces turbo lag.

Sequential Turbochargers
Some engines use two turbochargers of different sizes. The smaller one spins up to speed very quickly, reducing lag, while the bigger one takes over at higher engine speeds to provide more boost.

Another optional feature is the intercooler. We'll take a look at one on the next page.

Intercoolers
When air is compressed, it heats up; and when air heats up, it expands. So some of the pressure increase from a turbocharger is the result of heating the air before it goes into the engine. In order to increase the power of the engine, the goal is to get more air molecules into the cylinder, not necessarily more air pressure.

An intercooler or charge air cooler is an additional component that looks something like a radiator, except air passes through the inside as well as the outside of the intercooler. The intake air passes through sealed passageways inside the cooler, while cooler air from outside is blown across fins by the engine cooling fan.

The intercooler further increases the power of the engine by cooling the pressurized air coming out of the compressor before it goes into the engine. This means that if the turbocharger is operating at a boost of 7 psi, the intercooled system will put in 7 psi of cooler air, which is denser and contains more air molecules than warmer air.

BooRadley · 09-23-2004, 04:27 PM

Yeah, you can install one on whatever. A bit expensive for a muscle car, as you can build more power than your tires can handle without one.

MSD · 09-23-2004, 06:55 PM

You don't need to yell at us in green. We can see your post just fine if you type normally. On some of our forum's stylesets, that text is nearly impossible to read. All caps are considered rude anyway.

yakimushi · 09-23-2004, 07:20 PM

^^You don't need to yell at us. We can see your sig just fine if you type normally. Hypocrisy is considered rude anyway.

luisloja, what car are you considering a supercharger for? With some more details I'm sure the gearheads in this forum can give you some very good advice.

waltert · 09-24-2004, 07:20 AM

fabricating (and I say fabricating because its likely that no systems currently exist for whatever car you have) a turbocharger system will be more expensive than a supercharger system, simply because they are less common, and custom parts will be needed.

but posting without telling us specific details about your car, as well as what you're looking to achieve will get you nowhere.

Ilow · 09-24-2004, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakimushi

^^You don't need to yell at us. We can see your sig just fine if you type normally. Hypocrisy is considered rude anyway.

this is extremely funny to me. i don't know why, but it is.

Peryn · 09-24-2004, 07:14 PM

As to wether or not a turbo/supercharger setup would be a good way to go, depends entirely on the intended application. What are you going to do with the car? What are the specs on the engine? Whats your budget? There are many turbo'd muscle cars out there, many more supercharged ones, and plenty of high performing ones without forced induction.

j8ear · 09-24-2004, 09:47 PM

A muscle car usually means a v-8 (if it doesn't you probably don't have a muscle car ;-) )which would require two turbo chargers. One for each exhaust manifold. It can and has been done, but generally the cost/benefit isn't there.

A muscle car with forced induction would generally use a super charger, which is a crank driven device. A turbo charger is exhaust gas driven. In a nut shell both compress your intake air which allows you to add and burn more fuel...thereby generating more horsepower.

It is NOT a good idea, imho, to install a turbo charger on a muscle car.

-bear

MSD · 09-25-2004, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakimushi

^^You don't need to yell at us. We can see your sig just fine if you type normally. Hypocrisy is considered rude anyway.

I was talking about all caps, not the huge text. Plus, everyone has the option to hide signatures.

Lockjaw · 09-25-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

A muscle car usually means a v-8 (if it doesn't you probably don't have a muscle car ;-) )which would require two turbo chargers. One for each exhaust manifold. It can and has been done, but generally the cost/benefit isn't there.

A muscle car with forced induction would generally use a super charger, which is a crank driven device. A turbo charger is exhaust gas driven. In a nut shell both compress your intake air which allows you to add and burn more fuel...thereby generating more horsepower.

It is NOT a good idea, imho, to install a turbo charger on a muscle car.

-bear

You can do a single turbo on an engine with a V design. The plumbing is a little different but it's possible.

The main question is what engine are you trying to do this on? If your compression ratio is much higher than say 9.0:1 running a turbo is going to be a bad idea. Also you need to take into consideration how much power can your engine take stock? For example the block might give way...or the crank, or you might bend a connecting rod, or most likely you'll toast a piston if they aren't forged pieces. I mean you can stick it on a stock engine but you won't be able to run much boost at all turbo or supercharger.

telekinetic · 09-26-2004, 11:44 AM

Well, if youre muscle car is a 5.0 Mustang, then DEFINITELY turbocharge it...they can handle boost quite well without changing anything.

Otherwise...I'd say it's not a good idea to turbocharge unless you know what it is and what it does and what you're doing.

However, if you have like $5000 to drop, you can probably just take it to a shop and get them to fab it for you.

YakuzaStinger · 09-26-2004, 02:47 PM

i wouldnt turbo charge a 5.0 stang use a supercharger assuming ur going for more power in a drag racing type senerio a supercharger is belt drivin and will give u power when u hit the gas while a turbo is driven by the exhaust and will need exhaust cast to spool up and depending on the turbine size cause lag bigger turbo = = more power also = = more lag. a twin turbo system helps to eleminate lag assumin u use smaller turbos to achieve th same boost they spool faster. but unless u car is factor built for a tubro charge this is going to be a lot of custom engine work to make it work at peak performance. (repeats a lot of stuff from above but needed to get point across i think)

Lockjaw · 09-26-2004, 08:10 PM

Actually you'll see a bunch of Foxbody Stangs running a single turbo. Unlike cars with smaller displacements the 5.0 in the Stang is torquey enough that it'll offset the turbo lag. But I wouldn't use a turbo on a stock 302. They can stand some punisherment but you'll blow something sooner or later.

MSD · 09-26-2004, 09:17 PM

I'm guessing that this is for your 67 Mustang. For something older and carbureted, I wouldn't reccommend a turbo, a supercharger (probably with a through-the-hood scoop to suck in enough air) would be the best solution. Give us some engine specs and we'll start throwing out ideas. All we ask in return is that you post pictures for us to drool over.

CunningLinguist · 10-09-2004, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YakuzaStinger

i wouldnt turbo charge a 5.0 stang use a supercharger assuming ur going for more power in a drag racing type senerio a supercharger is belt drivin and will give u power when u hit the gas while a turbo is driven by the exhaust and will need exhaust cast to spool up and depending on the turbine size cause lag bigger turbo = = more power also = = more lag. a twin turbo system helps to eleminate lag assumin u use smaller turbos to achieve th same boost they spool faster. but unless u car is factor built for a tubro charge this is going to be a lot of custom engine work to make it work at peak performance. (repeats a lot of stuff from above but needed to get point across i think)

Ever drag raced a turbo car? 25 psi in less than 10 feet isn't what I call lag. When the engine is under that kind of load, turbos spool REAL fast. Not only that, but with a 2 step rev limiter you'll be making boost before you move. Pick the turbo size accordingly and spool/lag won't be much of an issue unless you lug it off the line... With stock exhaust (except for a straight pipe in place of the cat) my EVO will make 20psi at 2800 RPMs.

Btw, I don't think Chris Anderson minds his twin turbo Mustang at all http://www.ahpproducts.com/id23.html.

I don't think these guys agree with you either - http://www.turbomustangs.com

mdryfhout · 10-10-2004, 02:22 AM

super charge it mustangs have a good top end and supercharging it will give instant bottom end response a won't need to fabrcate exhaust manifold

CunningLinguist · 10-10-2004, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdryfhout

super charge it mustangs have a good top end and supercharging it will give instant bottom end response a won't need to fabrcate exhaust manifold

Uh, ok... Actually a blower is much worse for top end than a turbo. Turbo systems can maintain an efficient shaft RPM via wastegates. You can't controll the shaft speed of a blower as it's belt/shaft driven and in the upper RPMs you will be far outside the efficiency range of a small blower. You can counter this with a different pully, but then you won't have the same bottom end.

Just what do you mean by having to "fabrcate" an exhaust manifold? If you'd follow the links I posted, you'll find fabricated manifolds, much like you can buy a fabricated blower...

Lemme try this again - With a proper setup, lag is virtually NON-EXISTANT on the track. The picture is a wheel standing TURBO charged Mustang; I myself have made 25+ psi in a matter of 5-10 feet; With a 2 step you will be making boost before the car moves... So tell me again about bottom end response. The only time lag will be an issue, as I stated, is if you lug the car off the line. I don't think many people drag race that way, but I may be mistaken.

Let's talk about some benefits of turbo vs supercharging. Let's talk about the life span of turbo vs supercharging shall we? Why do you think semis are turbo charged? Ever known someone to get 100,000+ miles out of a blower? My VR4 made it's 12.67 pass with 118k miles on the original turbos. Here's another benefit for you - Turbos quiet the exhaust. Some tracks don't require mufflers on TURBO cars only, such as MIR (Budd's Creek Maryland). IMHO turbos sound better all around, the turbo whine, the wastegate opening, the blow-off valve dumping... Compared to some loud ass belt whine?

bodypainter · 10-10-2004, 07:45 AM

Yeah, turbochargers are better than blowers under all circumstances. That's why top-fuel dragsters are turbocharged!

Oh, wait a minute...

CunningLinguist · 10-10-2004, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodypainter

Yeah, turbochargers are better than blowers under all circumstances. That's why top-fuel dragsters are turbocharged!

Oh, wait a minute...

Oh... I didn't realize you're building a top fuel rail car here... My bad, I must be an idiot!

I think it's safe to assume this guy is building a street car, no? I think it's safe to assume that if he had a couple hundred grand he wouldn't be asking for advice on tfproject, no? I think it's safe to assume he won't be rebulding his motor completely every few passes, no? Obviously you enjoy the benefits of your blower, no? Wait, what do you drive anyway? Enlighten us with your vast experience here...

CunningLinguist · 10-10-2004, 07:59 AM

http://www.turbomustangs.com/feature...adblowthru.htm

7 second turbo/carb Mustang. 1200hp. God these guys are dumb. Don't they realize that if it were a blower motor they'd make elevnty billion horsepower?

Scorps · 10-10-2004, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

A muscle car usually means a v-8 (if it doesn't you probably don't have a muscle car ;-) )which would require two turbo chargers. One for each exhaust manifold. It can and has been done, but generally the cost/benefit isn't there.

A muscle car with forced induction would generally use a super charger, which is a crank driven device. A turbo charger is exhaust gas driven. In a nut shell both compress your intake air which allows you to add and burn more fuel...thereby generating more horsepower.

It is NOT a good idea, imho, to install a turbo charger on a muscle car.

-bear

Ya I think a Superchager is the best bet...plus it looks better!

CunningLinguist · 10-10-2004, 12:10 PM

I dunno... I don't think I've ever seen jaws drop like popping the hood to display a basketball sized turbo with a 5-6 inch inlet.

CunningLinguist · 10-10-2004, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

It is NOT a good idea, imho, to install a turbo charger on a muscle car.

-bear

I think it's only fair that you elaborate on why you think this is such a bad idea...

waltert · 10-10-2004, 02:28 PM

you sure are stirring shit up arent you, jason?

the choice between turbocharging and supercharging really comes down to the application. and probably cost/product availability as well as budget.

positive displacement superchargers are great for applications where you'd like to be able to punch it and go without delay. and I dont think turbos will ever beat their low end torque production, despite how far turbocharging has come regarding spool times.
if you're looking for on track performance only, you'll probably never have problems with a turbo's powerband.

if you're in an old musclecar with a 4 speed transmission, then its going to be harder to hit the best part of the powerband when you downshift, so the broader the power range the better for some applications, not everyone is after fast ETs, they may just want a car thats fun to drive, and a superchager makes it easy to deliver that without running it in the high rpm range.

you cant argue that turbocharging is better in every application.

CunningLinguist · 10-10-2004, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltert

you sure are stirring shit up arent you, jason?

the choice between turbocharging and supercharging really comes down to the application. and probably cost/product availability as well as budget.

positive displacement superchargers are great for applications where you'd like to be able to punch it and go without delay. and I dont think turbos will ever beat their low end torque production, despite how far turbocharging has come regarding spool times.
if you're looking for on track performance only, you'll probably never have problems with a turbo's powerband.

if you're in an old musclecar with a 4 speed transmission, then its going to be harder to hit the best part of the powerband when you downshift, so the broader the power range the better for some applications, not everyone is after fast ETs, they may just want a car thats fun to drive, and a superchager makes it easy to deliver that without running it in the high rpm range.

you cant argue that turbocharging is better in every application.

People need not state *shit* as fact when they're clueless... I'll call them on it. At least you finally stated some benefit to the blower vs turbo rather than essentially saying "don't do it". I've heard nothing from the original poster about his intended application. I explained the benefits as I saw them, and included links to prove the feasability and just how asinine some of the other statements were. I'm not here to make friends, but I'd like to help if I can. Saying "no" isn't helping.

Think about this - Tractor trailers and most heavy duty applications use turbos. This is quite a statement of their longevity. Most production cars opt for turbo over blower (supercharging is misleading as turbocharing is a subcategory of supercharging). This again speaks volumes for cost, performance, longevity, etc. In all forms of racing but one, when forced induction is used, the system of choice is a turbo.

I never intended to come across as saying turbos are the best option for all applications. I intended to prove that virtually every statement against them was just plain false.

waltert · 10-10-2004, 03:42 PM

most heavy duty equiptment is diesel powered, and they dont really have issues with torque (or lack thereof) and from my understanding, they produce a higher exhaust gas volume than a comparably sized gasoline engine, and therefore have less issues with spool time. also consider that most heavy duty machinery is used in relatively steady state applications.

turbochargers are the clear choice for efficiency, fuel savings, and durability.

in my opinion, in most cases for musclecars, supercharging (blower style) is just plain "easier".

and you dont have to worry about who fabricated your exhaust manifold, and if the welds are going to crack on you.

mdryfhout · 10-13-2004, 03:01 AM

if you do go and turbo charge it you'll need a heap of money twin pipied custom intercooler 2 turbos , larger injecters ,high flow fuel pump waste gate blow off valve oil feed to the turbos 2x custom exhaust manifold not cheap either but if you have got the dough go ahead should be fun to do burnouts in .
In new zealand we have a lot of v8 holdens and fords and if they add forced indution most still us supercharging easy and cost effetive and not allot of custom fabrcating and all the rest

CunningLinguist · 10-13-2004, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdryfhout

if you do go and turbo charge it you'll need a heap of money twin pipied custom intercooler 2 turbos , larger injecters ,high flow fuel pump waste gate blow off valve oil feed to the turbos 2x custom exhaust manifold not cheap either but if you have got the dough go ahead should be fun to do burnouts in .
In new zealand we have a lot of v8 holdens and fords and if they add forced indution most still us supercharging easy and cost effetive and not allot of custom fabrcating and all the rest

Not necessarily any more money than a blower setup. Intercooler is no more necessary than with a blower. 1 turbo would work fine. Injectors and fuel pump would be no more necessary than with a blower. Wastegate(s) could be PRE "fabrcated" with the manifolds you buy from one of the links I included.

The only way you need more fuel (pump and injectors) or an intercooler when you don't on a blower setup is if you're making more pressure (intercooler needed to cool it down whether it's blower or turbo) or making more power (more oxygen in the cylinders means more fuel is needed whether it's blower or turbo).

If you'd pay attention rather than focusing on arguing you would have seen this -

Turbo Systems

AHP now offers complete single turbo systems for 94-95 5.0L Mustangs.

Here is a list of standard features:
*TO4 Based turbo for applications up to 700HP
*1 5/8" Headers
*3" Downpipe / 3" to Dual 2.5" Y-Pipe
*Satin Black Ceramic Coating
*High-Flow Front Mount Intercooler
*Powder Coated IC Piping w/ Rolled Beads
*38mm Tial Wastegate
*Heavy Duty Silicone and T-Bolt Clamps
*V-band connections
*Does not require removal or modification of P/S, A/C or ABS
*All mounting hardware and accessories included

Special Introductory price for complete system starting at $3,200!!

A complete setup for $3200 - Now explain to everyone, if you will, how you'll need so much more money than for a blower setup?

Killer95GT302 · 10-25-2004, 08:57 PM

Turbochargers can be found for cheap used on ebay or something, and installation is not that much more difficult than a supercharger system. There are numerous reasons why I feel turbos are better than superchargers for street applications, some of which are...

More Power across the RPM range - Turbos can get full boost at 2500 RPM while superchargers only reach max boost at redline.

Ease of boost adjustability - all it takes is the turn of a knob with a boost controller, or splice in a cheap little valve into the wastegate line and youre set. No pulley changes.

No horsepower loss due to crank drag

No strain on the crank - taking apart a supercharged engine youll see the front bearings developing abnormal wear patterns

These are only some of the reasons why I feel Turbos are better than superchargers. V8s dont need 2 turbos, infact singles are the choice of many because it can perform just as well as a twin setup with half the piping headaches. Turbos on today's fuel injected muscle cars are easy to do because of all the high tech sensors (MAF, knock, etc) and tuning tools. Its really easy to set up and get tuned. How do I know, and whats my creditability? Well here is my 95 Turbo Mustang GT. Stock block, pistons, crank (bottom end basically)... best ET: 10.903 @ 129.30 @ only 14 psi. Better times to come...

09-23-2004, 10:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
luisloja Upright	TURBOCHARGER HOW DOES A TURBOCHARGER WORK? AND HOW TO CHOOSE THE CORRECT ONE? IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO INSTALL ON IN A MUSCLE CAR?

09-23-2004, 07:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
yakimushi Addict	^^You don't need to yell at us. We can see your sig just fine if you type normally. Hypocrisy is considered rude anyway. luisloja, what car are you considering a supercharger for? With some more details I'm sure the gearheads in this forum can give you some very good advice. Last edited by yakimushi; 09-23-2004 at 07:23 PM..

09-24-2004, 07:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	As to wether or not a turbo/supercharger setup would be a good way to go, depends entirely on the intended application. What are you going to do with the car? What are the specs on the engine? Whats your budget? There are many turbo'd muscle cars out there, many more supercharged ones, and plenty of high performing ones without forced induction. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

09-24-2004, 09:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	A muscle car usually means a v-8 (if it doesn't you probably don't have a muscle car ;-) )which would require two turbo chargers. One for each exhaust manifold. It can and has been done, but generally the cost/benefit isn't there. A muscle car with forced induction would generally use a super charger, which is a crank driven device. A turbo charger is exhaust gas driven. In a nut shell both compress your intake air which allows you to add and burn more fuel...thereby generating more horsepower. It is NOT a good idea, imho, to install a turbo charger on a muscle car. -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

09-26-2004, 11:44 AM	#12 (permalink)
telekinetic zomgomgomgomgomgomg Location: Fauxenix, Azerona	Well, if youre muscle car is a 5.0 Mustang, then DEFINITELY turbocharge it...they can handle boost quite well without changing anything. Otherwise...I'd say it's not a good idea to turbocharge unless you know what it is and what it does and what you're doing. However, if you have like $5000 to drop, you can probably just take it to a shop and get them to fab it for you. __________________ twisted no more

09-23-2004, 04:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
BooRadley Insane Location: Kentucky	Yeah, you can install one on whatever. A bit expensive for a muscle car, as you can build more power than your tires can handle without one.

09-23-2004, 06:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	You don't need to yell at us in green. We can see your post just fine if you type normally. On some of our forum's stylesets, that text is nearly impossible to read. All caps are considered rude anyway.

09-24-2004, 07:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
waltert Insane	fabricating (and I say fabricating because its likely that no systems currently exist for whatever car you have) a turbocharger system will be more expensive than a supercharger system, simply because they are less common, and custom parts will be needed. but posting without telling us specific details about your car, as well as what you're looking to achieve will get you nowhere.

09-26-2004, 02:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
YakuzaStinger Upright	i wouldnt turbo charge a 5.0 stang use a supercharger assuming ur going for more power in a drag racing type senerio a supercharger is belt drivin and will give u power when u hit the gas while a turbo is driven by the exhaust and will need exhaust cast to spool up and depending on the turbine size cause lag bigger turbo = = more power also = = more lag. a twin turbo system helps to eleminate lag assumin u use smaller turbos to achieve th same boost they spool faster. but unless u car is factor built for a tubro charge this is going to be a lot of custom engine work to make it work at peak performance. (repeats a lot of stuff from above but needed to get point across i think)

09-26-2004, 08:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	Actually you'll see a bunch of Foxbody Stangs running a single turbo. Unlike cars with smaller displacements the 5.0 in the Stang is torquey enough that it'll offset the turbo lag. But I wouldn't use a turbo on a stock 302. They can stand some punisherment but you'll blow something sooner or later.

09-26-2004, 09:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I'm guessing that this is for your 67 Mustang. For something older and carbureted, I wouldn't reccommend a turbo, a supercharger (probably with a through-the-hood scoop to suck in enough air) would be the best solution. Give us some engine specs and we'll start throwing out ideas. All we ask in return is that you post pictures for us to drool over.

10-10-2004, 02:22 AM	#17 (permalink)
mdryfhout Upright Location: New Zealand	super charge it mustangs have a good top end and supercharging it will give instant bottom end response a won't need to fabrcate exhaust manifold

10-10-2004, 07:45 AM	#19 (permalink)
bodypainter Psycho Location: Sarasota	Yeah, turbochargers are better than blowers under all circumstances. That's why top-fuel dragsters are turbocharged! Oh, wait a minute...

10-10-2004, 07:59 AM	#21 (permalink)
CunningLinguist Upright	http://www.turbomustangs.com/feature...adblowthru.htm 7 second turbo/carb Mustang. 1200hp. God these guys are dumb. Don't they realize that if it were a blower motor they'd make elevnty billion horsepower? __________________ Jason 94 3000GT VR4 (12.67 @ 105.93 & 12.802 @ 109.40) 04 EVO VIII Last edited by CunningLinguist; 10-10-2004 at 08:05 AM.. Reason: Wrong link copied...

10-10-2004, 12:10 PM	#23 (permalink)
CunningLinguist Upright	I dunno... I don't think I've ever seen jaws drop like popping the hood to display a basketball sized turbo with a 5-6 inch inlet. __________________ Jason 94 3000GT VR4 (12.67 @ 105.93 & 12.802 @ 109.40) 04 EVO VIII

10-10-2004, 02:28 PM	#25 (permalink)
waltert Insane	you sure are stirring shit up arent you, jason? the choice between turbocharging and supercharging really comes down to the application. and probably cost/product availability as well as budget. positive displacement superchargers are great for applications where you'd like to be able to punch it and go without delay. and I dont think turbos will ever beat their low end torque production, despite how far turbocharging has come regarding spool times. if you're looking for on track performance only, you'll probably never have problems with a turbo's powerband. if you're in an old musclecar with a 4 speed transmission, then its going to be harder to hit the best part of the powerband when you downshift, so the broader the power range the better for some applications, not everyone is after fast ETs, they may just want a car thats fun to drive, and a superchager makes it easy to deliver that without running it in the high rpm range. you cant argue that turbocharging is better in every application.

10-10-2004, 03:42 PM	#27 (permalink)
waltert Insane	most heavy duty equiptment is diesel powered, and they dont really have issues with torque (or lack thereof) and from my understanding, they produce a higher exhaust gas volume than a comparably sized gasoline engine, and therefore have less issues with spool time. also consider that most heavy duty machinery is used in relatively steady state applications. turbochargers are the clear choice for efficiency, fuel savings, and durability. in my opinion, in most cases for musclecars, supercharging (blower style) is just plain "easier". and you dont have to worry about who fabricated your exhaust manifold, and if the welds are going to crack on you. Last edited by waltert; 10-10-2004 at 03:45 PM..

10-13-2004, 03:01 AM	#28 (permalink)
mdryfhout Upright Location: New Zealand	if you do go and turbo charge it you'll need a heap of money twin pipied custom intercooler 2 turbos , larger injecters ,high flow fuel pump waste gate blow off valve oil feed to the turbos 2x custom exhaust manifold not cheap either but if you have got the dough go ahead should be fun to do burnouts in . In new zealand we have a lot of v8 holdens and fords and if they add forced indution most still us supercharging easy and cost effetive and not allot of custom fabrcating and all the rest

10-25-2004, 08:57 PM	#30 (permalink)
Killer95GT302 Upright	Turbochargers can be found for cheap used on ebay or something, and installation is not that much more difficult than a supercharger system. There are numerous reasons why I feel turbos are better than superchargers for street applications, some of which are... More Power across the RPM range - Turbos can get full boost at 2500 RPM while superchargers only reach max boost at redline. Ease of boost adjustability - all it takes is the turn of a knob with a boost controller, or splice in a cheap little valve into the wastegate line and youre set. No pulley changes. No horsepower loss due to crank drag No strain on the crank - taking apart a supercharged engine youll see the front bearings developing abnormal wear patterns These are only some of the reasons why I feel Turbos are better than superchargers. V8s dont need 2 turbos, infact singles are the choice of many because it can perform just as well as a twin setup with half the piping headaches. Turbos on today's fuel injected muscle cars are easy to do because of all the high tech sensors (MAF, knock, etc) and tuning tools. Its really easy to set up and get tuned. How do I know, and whats my creditability? Well here is my 95 Turbo Mustang GT. Stock block, pistons, crank (bottom end basically)... best ET: 10.903 @ 129.30 @ only 14 psi. Better times to come...