True I probably have comments about the cars you like name some and i'll let you know. I happen to like the EVO and STI and as you can tell hate the gto, I don't care if the original gto had a split grill or whatever it had this one is a cheap knock off of what the original might have been. Maybe pontiac can remake the Lemans like it did in the 80's I'm sure we all remember that maybe, or did people here actually like that car too?

The cars will handle no differently without that gawd-awful wing, with the possible exception of speeds in excess of 120+ mph.

At the speeds that the cars would be driven at, raced at, EVERYTHING (with the only exception being an illegal-top-speed-run), that wing is completely cosmetic. Its there to impress people like you who like to spout off that it is rally inspired and functional and blahblahblah :rolleyes:

Basically, the wings just scream "LOOK AT ME I AM A RACE CAR!!!!!"

If you really think those wings look good, then you just lost a lot of credibility with me as far as automotive looks are concerned....

And you can keep your glasses....I think you should put them back on and take another look at those enormous wings :lol:

Oh darn I lost credibility with someone whose opinion means nothing to me, you don't seem to understand the word OPINION and that I am entitled to mine and you are entitled to yours, you think the gto is great i hate it, you dislike the wings i like them.

Losing credibility to someone who knows nothing about me and nothing about my automotive knowledge means dick to me so if I was suppoed to care that you think I know nothing about cars sorry to disappoint but I don't.

Are you saying the STI isn't rally inspired because if you are here's the glasses back again.

LOL I didnt say the credibility thing to threaten you with something so stupid...the comment was meant to convey that before, I valued your OPINION (concerning the asthetics of vehicles) as a contributing member of this board. And I just love it when people rest with "you have your opinion and I have mine." If you really dont care what other people think, why even post? Why reply to others' opinions? Why visit a message board at all?

As far as the GTO goes, I think I made it blatantly obvious that I am not a fan. I dont LOVE every vehicle GM puts out just because its GM....unlike, eh-hem, some who seem to like everything about a vehicle simply because its an import, or maybe because it isnt GM.

As for the STi, I happen to REALLY like this car. If I could afford it, I would own one in a second. And the first thing I would do is remove and sell for top dollar that bookshelf of a spoiler.

I am not saying the car isnt rally inspired, frankly I dont care if you or anyone else wants to call it that or not. My point is, just because it is "rally inspired" does not excuse that giant ricer wing it wears. Ugly is ugly, period. I do realizre thats an OPINION, but jesus the spoiler doesnt even flow with ANY of the body lines on the car! It looks like it was just set on the trunk as an after-thought....

I dunno....this is stupid.

Again I call a truce, sileny_jay :D

it looks plain ugley to me....

Now I hate the way Pontiac puts the Alternator down on the bottom http://www.highresautoimages.com/pontiac/gto18.jpg

Actually when I saw one of these cars up close I checked that sorta stuff out (how easy is it to change parts) and actually doesn't look too bad to change.....unlike most F-body cars you can see all the spark plugs!

but most new cars don't have a whole lot of room under hood anymore!

Any LS1 F-body is relatively easy to change the plugs.....my LT1 on the other hand -----> :hmm:

LOL you should try and do a plug job on my van, NOT FUN!

got like 1 inch on both sides, between the manifold and the firewall, just enough for a rachet, extention and the plug socket! and you got to do it cold or I will lose my finger prints.......agian....lol every summer I start it ff by renewing my finger prints!:lol:

LOL thats hilarious :lol:

Ya I always check to see if the exhuast is hot...yup it is:p

Sorry to detract
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...9/fa09c964.jpg

Pontiacs best move...V8 Northstar in a Bonne.

Anyone see the vid of a some British guy whippin around in a Holden Monaro. Very impressive tricksy lil car. To bad it lacks the styling aggresion of the previous GTO.

Well that is a good move by them...My family had a 92 Bonnie but it was nothing but problems right after we drve it from Ont to BC thats when the shit hit the fan......so we sold it:D

That car is ugly.

Ya that british guy was Jeremy Clarkson and the show was Top Gear, he's great and knowledgeable but him doing that on a closed circut doesn't make me wanna buy that car.

yep. hunter is right.

that car is pretty much a re-badged Holden Monaro.

thats what i've been saying from the start thank you for agreeing

We have all been saying that!


we know its a Holden but its a good thing because now we get to drive an European car with the steering on the left hand side of the car.

It isn't european it Australlian, and it is far from a good thing, just what we need more grand am, grand prix, and new bonneville lookalikes, hey maybe they'll use the same ugly hood slats on this POS too.

there are many other european cars with the steering wheel on the left that are much better than this thing, BMW, Benz, Jag, Peugot,

I really could care less if its from the US, CDN or Over seas, I'm not going to own one anytime soon, I will stick with my Cavalier and modding the shit out of it!

don't get me started on the cavalier i can't stand them, mod the shit out of it if you like but after all the money is sunk into it you could have bought an actual fast car. After all the mods and what not I hope you are changing the body too, it will still be a Cavalier which are a dime a dozen and not one of them is really that fast. Do we remember the Cavaliers and Sunbirds of the 80's and they turned those into and apparent compact sports car, no they didn't it's a car thats about it.

no offense just my opinion

Just thought I'd add my two cents after taking a ride in a new friend's 2000 GTO. That thing was SWEET. Anybody who knocks the car without a ride seriously needs to think twice. Now the question is, do I want a date with him or with the car? :)

A little late but a few points:

Looks like a Dodge Avenger in the front and side views. Especially the headlamps.

The interior is very nice. Look nothing like a typical Pontiac interior. No bubble shaped grey buttons anywere in this car. Doesn't even look like a GM product in the inside at all.

Price is a little too much for my taste, Vette engine or not. Dealer were I saw it was asking $10,000 over msrp!!!

I have yet to see one on the road, not suprising at all.

well, it's ugly and it's fast. maybe's it's too fast to see that it's ugly! one could hope.

yes we could only hope

I see fugly from the front and a Dogde Avenger from the side and a Sentra from the rear...at least it's fast.

I like my cars to look good and be fast, no compromise, it's my baby why would I want to be saying man my ride is ugly as shit but it sure is fast. Why not just buy the SRT-4 whatever the fuck it is, apparantley it is quite fast but still looks like a Neon.

And your open top your opinion, I don't care what people think about the Cavaliers, I like the nody design and I don't have that much money to play with right now, so I need something thats I'm not going to be paying off for the next 50 years. But I hope within the next year or so to get a turbo put on it:D

I wasn't bashing the cavalier as a car, although I do not like the look or ride quality, I just hate people who drive them around like they're Aston Martin's, they are fine if they are just driven like a car and not a race car.

Well thats why I want the V6 that motor can take a beating(I worked in Automotive for 4 years and the inline 4's are always in for work)

my cousin had the V6 and I wasn't overly impressed I'll stick with my 2.5RS, the 4's are terrible, for some reason american car companies can't build a decent 4 banger

well when I get the car I will drive it for like a year then the work will start, I want to rebuild the engine, then slap a turbo on it:p

what type of turbo are you intending on putting on OEM or aftermarket if aftermarket I hope you stay below 6lbs boost unless you like somebody knocking and pinging on your door every 2 seconds. If you go aftermarket be prepared for a substantial bottom end work. Then you will be quick to find out no one makes anything for this engine of any useable quality. Even though I and others really hate Cavalier I'll give you one piece of advice people who hate Cavaliers keep secret go to a junkyard and get a 3.8 supercharged engine (avaliable in abundance) with install and thin rad. total cost should be around $1500 US. If you need someone to do the work bump the price up to $2000-$2500. As opposed to stcking with your 4 cylinder you would start with 240HP and more torque than you could get from 14lbs of boost with a turbo. If you put on just the turbo by the time you reach that kind of HP it will cost between $5500-$6500...shop smart...shop s-mart

and this 3.8 is a V6??

and if I go the the junk yard in my home town they don't let you do anything, you tell them what you want they pull it and they put it in....which I hate, they can pull it but I want my mechanic to do the work:)

EDIT:

and thanks for the advice

UAP any part suppliers can order you the engine and yes it is a V6, why can't you do the engine swap yourself you said you had automotive background just wondering, or is it a tool issue.

What is up with a junk yard that wants to put something into a car it is their job to take it out, go to Belleville and see what they have and also try Trenton I know those two towns have junkers.

Ya well I guess I could go to Belleville, but Trenton is to far of a drive......I would do it my self but I don't have a garage, my driveway is gravel and well I don't have a cherry picker!

And how much would one of these create engines cost me?

trentons only five minutes farther and second a cherry picker is only 20 a day and third put down 2 sheets of 3/4 inch plywood or thicker and you will have a safe car perch, call canadian tire they have a couple of suplliers and with my exp. a regular rebuilt is around 700 to 1400 depending on model and if you have a proper core unit.. other wise some company's will only take back the same old block for the core charge....what sort of back ground do you have.. i don't want to fill up the page with elementary thing you already know.. at least if i give you a little guidance you will realize an engine swap is basically lego

Canadian Tire doesn't like me....I got fired from there, they might remember me but they probally do.

My mechanic does a good job and they pay by the half- hour:p

Wow she has more power a new hood AND THE ALL NEW LS2


http://home.cogeco.ca/~tylerdonlon/c...iac_GTO_17.jpg
http://home.cogeco.ca/~tylerdonlon/c...iac_GTO_18.jpg

Drivetrain:
Engine - GM LS2 90º V 8
Engine Location - Front , longitudinally mounted
Displacement - 5.970 liter / 364.3 cu in
Valvetrain - 2 valves / cylinder, OHV
Fuel feed - Sequential Port Fuel injection
Aspiration - Naturally Aspirated
Gearbox - Tremec T56 6 speed Manual
Drive - Rear wheel drive
Performance Figures:
Power - 400 bhp / 298 KW @ 5200 rpm
Torque - 546 Nm / 403 ft lbs @ 4000 rpm
BHP/Liter - 67 bhp / liter
Power to weight ratio - N/A
Top Speed - N/A
0-60 mph Acceleration 5.0 s

I dont like the hood scoops or the rims. R the scoops even functional? Other than that, that car is sweeeeeeet! :thumbsup:

I don't know about the hood vents but I think they suit the GTO...just like the classic Ram Air

I liked the car for 04' and the new 05's with the new engine, hood, and dual exhaust outlets, is even better.

Id buy one, if I could afford it...

Pontiac GTO Ram Air 6
 

Well the Ram Air edition has arrived:D

(don't know why its called the GTO Ram Air 6 for)

http://home.cogeco.ca/~tylerdonlon/c...m_Air_6_01.jpg
http://home.cogeco.ca/~tylerdonlon/c...m_Air_6_02.jpg
http://home.cogeco.ca/~tylerdonlon/c...m_Air_6_03.jpg
http://home.cogeco.ca/~tylerdonlon/c...m_Air_6_04.jpg
http://home.cogeco.ca/~tylerdonlon/c...m_Air_6_05.jpg

The hood is now fully functional and its got a little bit of a new look, and the exhaust looks cool.

I saw one that GM brought to my school's career fair, and all in all, i was unimpressed. maybe its b/c it was parked next to a 2005 vette...

although i do like the v8 coupled with rear wheel drive.

One of those GTO's?

the design might not be the best yet(but it is getting nicer) but I'm all for the HP it puts out!

Pontiac GTO Ram Air 6
 

Is that car gonna be factory like that? I like this one the best by far, i actually like the hood scoops on this car, it really flows with the car. The kit looks awesome. The black housing headlights are niiiiice. Not to make it ricey or anything, but if i bought the car, id get a c/f hood with the same style as that one, a c/f trunk, and get the rims painted black w/ a polished lip. That would look insane. Anybody know a price tag on a regular GTO?

WRX is ugly
Rear wheel drive is better
WRX is not American

RWD is better, how do you figure that a RWD car is better than an AWD car? Of course the WRX isn't American people actually buy them, and they stay running.

32,495 for the base model

http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp...&pagename=home





I thought this thread wass dead months ago?

It did die....but I posted the new model in here because people would bitch at me for not using the search button.

You should pick up this months edition of Hot Rod magazine..apparently there is a company that takes GTO and puts 454 engines in them and redoes the body and labels them as a new chevelle..they look really nice :)

Any pics of this "new" chevelle. This should be interesting to see.

that does sound interesting

Just made a new thread with it...enjoy :)

Link?

Would help!(I'm just lazy)

actually rwd is better in terms of total perfromance over awd for a couple of reasons. first off pure rwd is lighter than awd. two extra differentials, an additional dirveshaft and then a transfercase all add weight. second your combined gear lash through an entire awd system is greater than with rwd, which lowers the effiency of the powerflow through the system. the addional spinning componets add mass that takes more power to spin. and finally the implementation of the AWD system greatky affects its perfromance. there are multiple ways of implementing it, some better perfroming than others. the current popular setup of choice *used by honda/acura, mitsubishi, toyota, some gm, etc* uses a single viscous coupling to transfer power to the rear wheels. problem with the setup is that for 90% of the time the rear half is being dragged along (added weight and rolling resistance) and when power is needed to be trnasfered, it is not mechanicly linked but hydraliclly, lowering the effieceny further, combined that it can only transfer when there is a difference in speeds. However subaru's setup is not of this type, but its components are awfully small.

and finally Subaru is owned by Fuji Heavy Industries, in which GM holds a 20% controlling stake. which is why Saab's 9-2x is a wrx, and the two branches are working on new platform now.

And finally go look into the incidents of repairs reports put out, amercan brands are doing quite well while some notable japanese and europeans brands are not.

Isnt it known that a AWD car with less hp than a RWD car will always win in a race, due to the fact that an AWD car has more traction?

hardly.

look at the traction issue this way.

a tire has a limited set amount of grip that can be divided in two forms. one is road holding and one is power delivery. whe 75% of a tires total grip is being used in road holding that leaves UPTO 25% aviable for power delivery. if the power being applied to the wheel would be 50% of a tire grip under normal conditions, but used in this instanse your 75% toward road holding + 50% of power delivery exceeds 100% and you get a tire that slips. you lose a portion of roadholding and a portion of power delivery to the point where total capacity is 100%. overlysimplified? yes, but the idea behind it is sound.

where awd has the advatnage is that it allows power delevery to be divided amoung 4 tires instead of just two, so instead of the tire using 50% of its gripping capacity for power delivery its using only 25%. so int he example above the tire would not have slipped. however using the same example (from the first paragraph), if 75% of a tire is being called on for road holding, but only 10% of it is being asked to do power delivery, then it will still not slip, regardless of how many other tires are being asked to share the load.

So AWD setup SOLE advantage is in extreme tracion areas, IE rally racing and inital take off of a vehicle. you can divide your power output across more tires. however when the amount of traction avialbe is suffcient for power delivery and road holding to occur within the limits of the tire, there is no advatnage to splitng your power distrabution amoung additional tires. when this is the case (as it is in the majoity of the time in on-pavment racing) the advantage of a lighter drivetrain and more effceint transfer of power becames apparent.

in general during ideal race conditons on a pavement cource, an awd vehicle will require additional horcepower to match an otherwise identical rwd vehicle. the losses due to weight and rotational mass are large enough to cause a descrepency in performance. again awd has the advatnage in that it can divide its power delivery across a broader range of tires, however this only applies when traction is liming the power delivery across only two tires.

firstly this was a aussie design and built car ( holden owned by GM ) it has some us engine coponetary and then it was restyled and badged differently for the petrol thirsty americans . they also come in 4wd shortly as well and yo can compare these german Mercs and beemers they have v8 sports cars as well but just cost twice as much . Personally don't like large v8s or american crud ,i prefer European and Japanese cars . design economy tecnology then power thats the way it needs 2 be these day not just slamming 6ltrs of pushrod crud

But thats just my oppinion and everyone is entitled to one and be respected

actually depening how far back you want go with the platfrom it is GM Europe designed vehicle. Holden took the sigma platform form Opel and introduced it as a coupe. US got the same vehicle in a 4 door sedan by the name of the Catera. the platfrom was then re-refined it (now sigma-lite)and gave us the CTS (and CTS-V that is giving the m3 and m5 fits in the perfromance department) and the SRX SUV. as for the Engine, it has been had to argue with the LS series of V8 motors. high power ouput(400+ int he LS6 and now LS2), very very clean emissions, and enough torque to drive OD ranges in the .50:1 area producing 30MPG+ highway fuel economy and then being more reliable than any other v8 in history. Sometimes a refined simple design can still produce the same economy and technology of far more complex engines, and still make good power output.

Very nice car... though it looks a bit too much like a Grand Am

LOL the GTO has always had a look like that Pontiac put the look for the GTO into the Grand Am and Grand Prix. No one seems to notice that!




Just thank god they didn't build this one:
http://membres.lycos.fr/automagg/gto.jpg

I am pro GTO
 

My company's directors and VPs are given complementary GTOs and I have had the pleasure of borrowing one for the afternoon. Now, it is missing much of the classic styling cues and 'muscle car' look, but that is one of the things I like about it. There are no fake hood scoops or brake cooling vents like the 'stang. It doesn't really stand out, and not everyone is going to get one (it is a Pontiac, ya know). But driving it was tons of fun. Great acceleration, when you throw it in second it doesn't lag, IT GOES FASTER! The interior had some of the cheap GM feel, but I like the color coordination; paint, leather and gauges match. Not everyone knows you are driving a monster unless they know you are driving a monster. Does that make sense? haha. Maybe it's just me, I'm into the sleeper thing. I thought it was fun, don't knock it 'till you try it. If I was going to buy a new car ... I wouldn't buy this! But it's on my top 3. Right behind my first choice, the Chrysler 300C.
You know what would make the GTO better? A Judge, but I'm not so sure I'de go with orange! Drive safe!

not bad for american...

I have seen a few in my area. I find them to look very cheap and plasticy, and sort of look like a souped up cavalier. I would never guess that there is a 300hp v8 in one if i didnt already know

They better not mess with a classic...let the judge rest in peace!