Car designs in 10 years - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JohnS72 · 12-17-2003, 04:58 PM

I was driving around the other day when I realized how car design has changed over the years. Do you think that car designs will change dramatically in the next twenty or so years? It's scary to think about how much the designs have improved and changed over the past few decades, so how do you think they will change? Also, which cars would be considered a classic in the next 20 years or so?

Cynthetiq · 12-17-2003, 05:18 PM

not in the US... most cars today don't look all that radically different from what they did 20 years ago

Jam · 12-18-2003, 01:58 AM

fuck yea they do

bigoldalphamale · 12-18-2003, 08:37 AM

when would you have ever seen something like an audi TT or lexus sc430 on the road 10 years ago? or a hurting ass honda element, or cadillac evoc? cars are definitely different. for the better? not in all cases (bmw for instance).

nominations for classics in the next 20 years? i assume this means that they are, or would be, no longer in production so...

92-93 RX-7 R1
Mitsu 3000GT Spyder
Toyota Supra
Acura NSX
Nissan 300zx Twinnie

Cynthetiq · 12-18-2003, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
when would you have ever seen something like an audi TT or lexus sc430 on the road 10 years ago? or a hurting ass honda element, or cadillac evoc? cars are definitely different. for the better? not in all cases (bmw for instance).

those cars aren't the cars of the masses. they are niche cars which niche cars have always had their own followings.

the US market likes the sedan/saloon design which is why it takes so long to get new fresh designs. Few car makers deviate from it. Yes, you get a curve here, and a straight edge there, but all in all they are still a box with four wheels. That's why the Bugatti Vehryon isn't such a popular design here. That's why they didn't sell the Honda Accord to the US market that's in the European market, but redesigned it to a tamer styling.

Looking at the WORLD market the designs you mention like the TT/SC430 and the Element, those kinds of styling cues have all been out there in the japanese and european markets for over a decade.

bigoldalphamale · 12-18-2003, 09:02 AM

agreed.

Peryn · 12-18-2003, 10:55 AM

Sure....cars now have a few extra curves...but thats it. Round out your straight edges, and suddenly those 80's boxes look 10-20 years newer. Designs haven't really changed much at all in the US market for quite a few years.

sky_driver · 12-19-2003, 10:26 AM

I just don't see what else they can do to drastically chang the body styles from today.

bundy · 12-19-2003, 03:29 PM

well, how long does it take a well received concept car to make it to production? 5years? more?

hopefully, in ten years, cars will be cheaper (not going to happen).

as for designs, well i think that in 10 years cars will be sleeker, more subtle and more understated... but far more powerful and efficient.

Cynthetiq · 12-19-2003, 10:27 PM

bundy,

cars have gotten cheaper...

you can get a well equiped car for about US$8,000 - US$13,000 that's dependable and requires little maintenance.

some cars can go from concept to showroom in as short as 3 years.

powerful and efficient? hmmm SUVs seem to have missed that bandwagon, plenty of power but efficiency was lobbied out. IMHO, if the government doesn't step in to REQUIRE better efficiency, it isn't going to happen.

j8ear · 12-19-2003, 11:09 PM

The same v8 in a ford LTD or lincoln continental 20 even 15 years ago was getting 6-8 city 8-10 highway. Now cars of similar characteristics or class are using slightly smaller engines, which develop 15-25% more horsepower and torque, uses 50 percent less fuel, and puts out 15 percent less polution. I'm no environmental scientist or economist, but to me that is a significant improvement in power, efficiency, and economy.

The only thing well equipped in the 8-10k range is a 3-4 year old used car, too.

Granted huge, polluting, inefficient bohemoths are out there...that is a culture thing in the states. EVERY car company is accomodating that market. This is what many people are buying, but NOT the only option availalble to them.

Even still my 79 bronco gets 6 or 7 mpg and could pull an Excursion over the Rockies (it's not a daily driver mind you, but a plow rig for my in laws compound) and weighs in at around 5700lbs. She's a bohemeth to be sure. An Excursion gets 10-12 mpg I believe.

What you talking about Cynthetiq? (this is supposed to be in my best Arnold Drummond voice)

-bear

Cynthetiq · 12-19-2003, 11:46 PM

CAFE standards were supposed to push those numbers into the stratosphere, but because of trade offs, things like giving away the FORD FOCUS since it's higher in gas mileage allows for the higher profit margin yet lower mileage vehicle like the Town Car to be sold. CAFE ratios allow for this type of "trade off" because the CAFE goes by an AVERAGE mileage instead of pushing the envelope across the board for ALL vehicles. So the manufacturers knowing that the government will act on them if they don't act themselves, have pledged to push the SUV gas economy upward by X% by the year 200X. IMHO Why wait???? The technology exists now and can be exploited now, but because it cuts into profits, they have no interest in doing so now.

So in essence had they allowed development like the small engines for fuel economy and power, the SUV market should have made those same kinds of stride.

While I do agree, my father wanted a Suburban long ago but was put off by the 7MPG rating, and isn't all that impressed with the current 15-20MPG rating, compared to the other vehicles in it's class which are just slightly higher.

Behemoths are a USA trend for sure, but it's not just USA, Icelandic Super Jeeps are a norm out there as well. USA also is into LARGE engines and GOBS of HP, which is why the MINI COOPER One sells well overseas (90HP) but will never be a seller here in the US.

It's late, I'm a bit fuzzy on it right now, but that's the gist of it.

89transam · 12-20-2003, 12:06 AM

I would say that in 20 years a V8 will be unheard of. I mean whats the point of engineering them any further? The ZO6 makes what 450 HP (guess)? Just think in 20 years what kind of power they could squeeze out of a v8 if they really tried. Insted they will put that engineering into a 4 cylinder and in 20 years they will too make 500 hp.

Peryn · 12-20-2003, 09:30 AM

IF i could make plenty of power out of a 4 banger and still have the small weight and good mileage, i dont think anyone here wouldn't do it. If you could get the same power and torque curves, better mileage, and less weight...why not? So more power to em if then can do it. But until then, why bother? Its way to expensive to engineer a smaller engine to get bigger hp numbers than it is to start with a big engine.

One quick clarification though...what is CAFE? Is that the federal equivilant to CARB (California Air Resources Board -- the smog nazi's)?

89transam · 12-20-2003, 03:40 PM

True perin, and obiviously now its much easier to get a v8 to make power and good good mileage but it seems like 4 cyliners are probobly getting better an dbetter. My little 4 cylinder Contour makes 120 HP I think, Wasent it in the 80s that v8s made that kinda power?

12-22-2003, 11:37 PM

the era of the four stroke piston engine will be coming to an end. New combustion engines based between piston and rotary will be the future. They already have a few prototypes, no vibration, idles at a smooth and flat 600rpm and redline at 15,000rpm with excellent gas milage and low emessions. I want!

Cynthetiq · 12-23-2003, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peryn
IF i could make plenty of power out of a 4 banger and still have the small weight and good mileage, i dont think anyone here wouldn't do it. If you could get the same power and torque curves, better mileage, and less weight...why not? So more power to em if then can do it. But until then, why bother? Its way to expensive to engineer a smaller engine to get bigger hp numbers than it is to start with a big engine.

One quick clarification though...what is CAFE? Is that the federal equivilant to CARB (California Air Resources Board -- the smog nazi's)?

I picked this up from the NHSTA site. Interesting part about the light trucks which I did not know exactly but to go only from 17mpg to 22mpg a 5mpg increase in almost 30 years is horrific.

Quote:

What is CAFE?
Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) is the sales weighted average fuel economy, expressed in miles per gallon (mpg), of a manufacturer’s fleet of passenger cars or light trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 8,500 lbs. or less, manufactured for sale in the United States, for any given model year. Fuel economy is defined as the average mileage traveled by an automobile per gallon of gasoline (or equivalent amount of other fuel) consumed as measured in accordance with the testing and evaluation protocol set forth by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

For what years and at what levels have the light truck CAFE standards been set?
Congress did not specify a target for the improvement of light truck fuel economy. Instead, it provided that light truck standards be set at the maximum feasible level for model year 1979 and each model year thereafter. Unlike for the passenger car fleet, there is no default standard established for light trucks. NHTSA must set the standard for each model future model year. Light truck fuel economy standards have been established by NHTSA for MY 1979 through MY 2007.

Light truck fuel economy requirements were first established for MY 1979 (17.2 mpg for 2-wheel drive models; 15.8 mpg for 4-wheel drive). Standards for MY 1979 light trucks were established for vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 6,000 pounds or less. Standards for MY 1980 and beyond are for light trucks with a GVWR of 8,500 pounds or less. The light truck standard progressively increased from MY 1979 to 20.7 mpg and 19.1 mpg, respectively, by MY 1991. From MY 1982 through 1991, manufacturers were allowed to comply by either combining 2- and 4-wheel drive fleets or calculating their fuel economy separately. In MY 1992, the 2- and 4-wheel drive fleet distinction was eliminated, and fleets were required to meet a standard of 20.2 mpg. The standard progressively increased until 1996, when the Appropriations prohibition froze the requirement at 20.7 mpg. The freeze was lifted by Congress on December 18, 2001. On March 31, 2003, NHTSA issued new light truck standards, setting a standard of 21.0 mpg for MY 2005, 21.6 mpg for MY 2006, and 22.2 mpg for MY 2007.

link NHTSA

BooRadley · 12-23-2003, 04:32 PM

I forsee the death of SUVs and large commuter trucks ( F150, Silverado ) as OPEC countries start to slow down oil production. The American public will not tolerate anything more than $2.00 a gallon ( average ) and we are going to be staring down high gas prices in the future. G Dub Bush has stalled that for 10 years or so by throwing billions of dollars into taking over an oil producing country ( Obviously, we now have more leverage against OPEC using Iraqs capacity... )

As for cars and horsepower, I see the safety nazis severely curbing back the horsepower of cars. Already, states are making laws to keep people from getting killed on the roadways ( seat belt laws, anyone? How about vehicle safety inspections? ) and the next step is slower cars that are incapable of doing 90 mph up a 30 degree slope. You know, a really convienant way of slowing down cars is making them hybrid.... which would kill two birds with one stone. The hybrid technology is here to stay, and it will start showing up more and more as the government creates more incentives for it.

How can we justify slower cars? Simple.The country is no longer as dependant on its' interstate systems with flying being as cheap as what it is. The prices will just go down as more and more people start flying as oppossed to driving 55 on a congested interstate. You don't need a 298 hp car to drive 60 or even 70. It is possible to keep fast acceleration with a low top speed... it's all in the gearing. CVTs- Continously Variable Transmissions... will start to replace the automatic... the technology is far too superior with no real drawbacks other than cost. And cost can always be lowered.

ChickenNinja · 12-27-2003, 05:56 AM

10 years and we might be seeing super-efficient cars based on this:
http://www.rnw.nl/science/html/031215wheel.html

TopRamen66 · 12-28-2003, 08:47 PM

I've noticed just in the last few years that cars are just getting uglier and uglier. I think this technological stuff is getting out of hand. Cars are getting ugly (IMO), but at the same time they are getting more efficient. I believe its a bad interpetation of form follows function. At least that has the word FORM in it, not FUNCTION RULES EVERYTHING.

ireallydontknow · 12-29-2003, 03:47 PM

I'm guessing that car designs will forever alternate between round curves and sharp lines

12-17-2003, 04:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
JohnS72 Crazy	Car designs in 10 years I was driving around the other day when I realized how car design has changed over the years. Do you think that car designs will change dramatically in the next twenty or so years? It's scary to think about how much the designs have improved and changed over the past few decades, so how do you think they will change? Also, which cars would be considered a classic in the next 20 years or so?

12-17-2003, 05:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	not in the US... most cars today don't look all that radically different from what they did 20 years ago __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-18-2003, 10:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	Sure....cars now have a few extra curves...but thats it. Round out your straight edges, and suddenly those 80's boxes look 10-20 years newer. Designs haven't really changed much at all in the US market for quite a few years. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

12-19-2003, 03:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
bundy . Location: Tokyo	well, how long does it take a well received concept car to make it to production? 5years? more? hopefully, in ten years, cars will be cheaper (not going to happen). as for designs, well i think that in 10 years cars will be sleeker, more subtle and more understated... but far more powerful and efficient. __________________ Ohayo!!!

12-19-2003, 10:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	bundy, cars have gotten cheaper... you can get a well equiped car for about US$8,000 - US$13,000 that's dependable and requires little maintenance. some cars can go from concept to showroom in as short as 3 years. powerful and efficient? hmmm SUVs seem to have missed that bandwagon, plenty of power but efficiency was lobbied out. IMHO, if the government doesn't step in to REQUIRE better efficiency, it isn't going to happen. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-18-2003, 01:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jam Junkie	fuck yea they do

12-18-2003, 08:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
bigoldalphamale Loser	when would you have ever seen something like an audi TT or lexus sc430 on the road 10 years ago? or a hurting ass honda element, or cadillac evoc? cars are definitely different. for the better? not in all cases (bmw for instance). nominations for classics in the next 20 years? i assume this means that they are, or would be, no longer in production so... 92-93 RX-7 R1 Mitsu 3000GT Spyder Toyota Supra Acura NSX Nissan 300zx Twinnie

12-18-2003, 09:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
bigoldalphamale Loser	agreed.

12-19-2003, 10:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
sky_driver Insane	I just don't see what else they can do to drastically chang the body styles from today.

12-19-2003, 11:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	The same v8 in a ford LTD or lincoln continental 20 even 15 years ago was getting 6-8 city 8-10 highway. Now cars of similar characteristics or class are using slightly smaller engines, which develop 15-25% more horsepower and torque, uses 50 percent less fuel, and puts out 15 percent less polution. I'm no environmental scientist or economist, but to me that is a significant improvement in power, efficiency, and economy. The only thing well equipped in the 8-10k range is a 3-4 year old used car, too. Granted huge, polluting, inefficient bohemoths are out there...that is a culture thing in the states. EVERY car company is accomodating that market. This is what many people are buying, but NOT the only option availalble to them. Even still my 79 bronco gets 6 or 7 mpg and could pull an Excursion over the Rockies (it's not a daily driver mind you, but a plow rig for my in laws compound) and weighs in at around 5700lbs. She's a bohemeth to be sure. An Excursion gets 10-12 mpg I believe. What you talking about Cynthetiq? (this is supposed to be in my best Arnold Drummond voice) -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission. Last edited by j8ear; 12-19-2003 at 11:11 PM..

12-19-2003, 11:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	CAFE standards were supposed to push those numbers into the stratosphere, but because of trade offs, things like giving away the FORD FOCUS since it's higher in gas mileage allows for the higher profit margin yet lower mileage vehicle like the Town Car to be sold. CAFE ratios allow for this type of "trade off" because the CAFE goes by an AVERAGE mileage instead of pushing the envelope across the board for ALL vehicles. So the manufacturers knowing that the government will act on them if they don't act themselves, have pledged to push the SUV gas economy upward by X% by the year 200X. IMHO Why wait???? The technology exists now and can be exploited now, but because it cuts into profits, they have no interest in doing so now. So in essence had they allowed development like the small engines for fuel economy and power, the SUV market should have made those same kinds of stride. While I do agree, my father wanted a Suburban long ago but was put off by the 7MPG rating, and isn't all that impressed with the current 15-20MPG rating, compared to the other vehicles in it's class which are just slightly higher. Behemoths are a USA trend for sure, but it's not just USA, Icelandic Super Jeeps are a norm out there as well. USA also is into LARGE engines and GOBS of HP, which is why the MINI COOPER One sells well overseas (90HP) but will never be a seller here in the US. It's late, I'm a bit fuzzy on it right now, but that's the gist of it. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION! Last edited by Cynthetiq; 12-19-2003 at 11:51 PM..

12-20-2003, 12:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
89transam Psycho Location: Central California	I would say that in 20 years a V8 will be unheard of. I mean whats the point of engineering them any further? The ZO6 makes what 450 HP (guess)? Just think in 20 years what kind of power they could squeeze out of a v8 if they really tried. Insted they will put that engineering into a 4 cylinder and in 20 years they will too make 500 hp.

12-20-2003, 09:30 AM	#14 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	IF i could make plenty of power out of a 4 banger and still have the small weight and good mileage, i dont think anyone here wouldn't do it. If you could get the same power and torque curves, better mileage, and less weight...why not? So more power to em if then can do it. But until then, why bother? Its way to expensive to engineer a smaller engine to get bigger hp numbers than it is to start with a big engine. One quick clarification though...what is CAFE? Is that the federal equivilant to CARB (California Air Resources Board -- the smog nazi's)? __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

12-20-2003, 03:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
89transam Psycho Location: Central California	True perin, and obiviously now its much easier to get a v8 to make power and good good mileage but it seems like 4 cyliners are probobly getting better an dbetter. My little 4 cylinder Contour makes 120 HP I think, Wasent it in the 80s that v8s made that kinda power?

12-22-2003, 11:37 PM	#16 (permalink)
NotMinus Guest	the era of the four stroke piston engine will be coming to an end. New combustion engines based between piston and rotary will be the future. They already have a few prototypes, no vibration, idles at a smooth and flat 600rpm and redline at 15,000rpm with excellent gas milage and low emessions. I want!

12-23-2003, 04:32 PM	#18 (permalink)
BooRadley Insane Location: Kentucky	I forsee the death of SUVs and large commuter trucks ( F150, Silverado ) as OPEC countries start to slow down oil production. The American public will not tolerate anything more than $2.00 a gallon ( average ) and we are going to be staring down high gas prices in the future. G Dub Bush has stalled that for 10 years or so by throwing billions of dollars into taking over an oil producing country ( Obviously, we now have more leverage against OPEC using Iraqs capacity... ) As for cars and horsepower, I see the safety nazis severely curbing back the horsepower of cars. Already, states are making laws to keep people from getting killed on the roadways ( seat belt laws, anyone? How about vehicle safety inspections? ) and the next step is slower cars that are incapable of doing 90 mph up a 30 degree slope. You know, a really convienant way of slowing down cars is making them hybrid.... which would kill two birds with one stone. The hybrid technology is here to stay, and it will start showing up more and more as the government creates more incentives for it. How can we justify slower cars? Simple.The country is no longer as dependant on its' interstate systems with flying being as cheap as what it is. The prices will just go down as more and more people start flying as oppossed to driving 55 on a congested interstate. You don't need a 298 hp car to drive 60 or even 70. It is possible to keep fast acceleration with a low top speed... it's all in the gearing. CVTs- Continously Variable Transmissions... will start to replace the automatic... the technology is far too superior with no real drawbacks other than cost. And cost can always be lowered.

12-27-2003, 05:56 AM	#19 (permalink)
ChickenNinja Crazy	10 years and we might be seeing super-efficient cars based on this: http://www.rnw.nl/science/html/031215wheel.html __________________ Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

12-28-2003, 08:47 PM	#20 (permalink)
TopRamen66 Insane	I've noticed just in the last few years that cars are just getting uglier and uglier. I think this technological stuff is getting out of hand. Cars are getting ugly (IMO), but at the same time they are getting more efficient. I believe its a bad interpetation of form follows function. At least that has the word FORM in it, not FUNCTION RULES EVERYTHING.

12-29-2003, 03:47 PM	#21 (permalink)
ireallydontknow Insane Location: San Jose, CA	I'm guessing that car designs will forever alternate between round curves and sharp lines