I don't know whether to ask for help, or donations for a new car. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MSD · 11-23-2003, 10:21 PM

I am hesitant to bring the car back to my mechanic after he charged us $300 (not including labor) for a power steering pump that I could have gotten for $85. I don't know if I can fix this myself, or if I should bring it somewhere, or just buy a new car.

'93 Lincoln Town Car - Executive Series w/ Limo package (not stretched, but can be done)
4.6L OHC and 4sp auto OD transmission
Transmission is new (20k), engine is original. Almost 200k miles
Nothing modified

Diagnostic computer reveals the folloiwng:
-Cylinders 3,5,8 failed cylinder balance test
-Error codes point to lean air/fuel mixture due to faulty EGR valve
-Coolant temperature sensor is running at higher than maximum allowed voltage.

Two major problems:
1: When the engine is warm, antifreeze will leak out of the cooling system as quickly as I put it in, but water won't. This is mind-boggling. I'm going to flush the radiator, refill, and check for leaks tomorrow.

2: The enging backfires severly after it is started. The problem is worse on humid days. If I put it inot neutral and floor it for 10 seconds, it seems to clear up. If driven normally, it clears up after 2-10 minutes of driving (about the same tiem that the engine warms up.) The problem briefly disappeared when I replaced spark plugs (not wires,) then got worse, got better again when I whacked the EGR valve with a wrench after two error codes pointed to a sticky EGR valve. The problem also improved briefly after I replaced the fuel filter.

Another problem I just thought of:
The transmission takes a long time, as much as 5-10 seconds after disengaging 2nd gear, to shift into 3rd. The harder I press the accelerator, the longer it takes. The harder I'm accelerating, the harder the shift is when it finally happens. I almost have to stop accelerating to get it to shift within a normal period of time.

WarWagon · 11-23-2003, 11:12 PM

In my opinion, the amount of money you're likely to spend on repairs may start inching towards the cars blue book value. If there is one thing that has caused my distaste for anything Ford related, its their ongoing ECU/electrical problems, which only go further and further downhill.

The cylinder balance test may also indicate that an engine rebuild may not be too far down the road (also indicated by the very high mileage).

numist · 11-23-2003, 11:17 PM

that engine sounds like a rebuild to me... 200k miles sounds like its past its shelf life, get the block resurfaced and put in some new pistons and a rebuilt head, and see what happens, but if you do it, do it yourself and get the mechanics manual for the car - nothing beats experience.

The ECU will also be money gone... but if you do it, do it yourself.

Fixing it will cost a lot of money though, so I'd suggest junking it unless you severely love it. In the end, learning about engines is best done by working on your own, and the learning curve is high during a rebuild. Great way to learn, but more expensive in time by far than a mechanic, but cheaper in the long run, because then you have more ability to work on it in the future (and if you rebuild it, you can expect another 100k miles on it at a minimum).

Sorry :shrugs:

Scorps · 11-24-2003, 10:10 AM

I think its time you drive it off a cliff....Insurance

MSD · 11-24-2003, 10:36 AM

I don't think a rebuild is worth it. The body is rusted through at one place, the suspension is old and creaky, the electrical system is starting to fail, and it gets about 14mpg (16 highway.) We're going to ditch it at some point and get something fuel-efficient for me to commute to school. All I need to do at the moment is keep it runing until I find a job and my mother finds a new one that pays better.

Sion · 11-24-2003, 11:43 AM

MSD, start by replacing the EGR valve and the coolant temp sensor. they wont be particularly expensive, nor are they particularly hard to replace. (note that you could also disassemble the EGR valve and clean it and reinstall. if it is just sticking and nothing else is wrong with it, you can save the cost of replacing it). that should improve driveability significantly. as to the water/antifreeze problem, exactly WHERE is it leaking from? without that info, its impossible to make any suggestions as what to do about it.

the backfiring is certainly related to the EGR valve trouble, but could also have something to do with the "Cylinders 3,5,8 failed cylinder balance test". Im not sure what that means, as I've never heard that terminology, but if it is in any way related to compression, that means a rebuild is in order to correct. I wouldnt bother with that unless you plan to sink big $$ into it, which you've said you dont intend to.

as for the tranny, try to find out if it has an electronic shift module or is vacuum operated. it sounds like the vacuum type, in which case a new modulator could be in order, or else a vacuum leak somewhere. in any case, check the warranty on that tranny, and if it is still valid, take it to where you got it and have them check it out.

catback · 11-28-2003, 07:42 AM

Seeing that you took the car to the mechanic for power steering pump change I doubt you will want to do any of the work that needs to be done cuse it's alot of work. If I were you I'd sell it or run it off a cliff cuse it's 10 years old now and the body probably doesn't look great enough to revive the car to great working order.

merkerguitars · 11-28-2003, 02:53 PM

Quote:

[i]

Diagnostic computer reveals the folloiwng:
-Cylinders 3,5,8 failed cylinder balance test
-Error codes point to lean air/fuel mixture due to faulty EGR valve
-Coolant temperature sensor is running at higher than maximum allowed voltage.
[/B]

I checked with a ford mechanic I knew for you and asked thim what the "balance test" actually means. They hook a ford engine analyzer up to it. The 4.6 has individual coils on each cylinder so they hook the computer to each individual coil. Then when the car is running it gives feedback to tell how much power each one is throwing out. Which seems to me that you probably have bad compression on those cylinders. My advice would be to find a car like or similar to yours (same body style, engine and transmission) and keeps your for parts....thats my 2 cents.

MSD · 11-28-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by catback
Seeing that you took the car to the mechanic for power steering pump change I doubt you will want to do any of the work that needs to be done cuse it's alot of work.

It's my mom's car. She didn't have the time for me to get the part and put it in. I could have, I am fairly confident that I could strip the car down to individual pieces and put it back together, but I don't think this car is worth the effort due to the poor fuel economy and rusted-through spot.

11-23-2003, 10:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I don't know whether to ask for help, or donations for a new car. I am hesitant to bring the car back to my mechanic after he charged us $300 (not including labor) for a power steering pump that I could have gotten for $85. I don't know if I can fix this myself, or if I should bring it somewhere, or just buy a new car. '93 Lincoln Town Car - Executive Series w/ Limo package (not stretched, but can be done) 4.6L OHC and 4sp auto OD transmission Transmission is new (20k), engine is original. Almost 200k miles Nothing modified Diagnostic computer reveals the folloiwng: -Cylinders 3,5,8 failed cylinder balance test -Error codes point to lean air/fuel mixture due to faulty EGR valve -Coolant temperature sensor is running at higher than maximum allowed voltage. Two major problems: 1: When the engine is warm, antifreeze will leak out of the cooling system as quickly as I put it in, but water won't. This is mind-boggling. I'm going to flush the radiator, refill, and check for leaks tomorrow. 2: The enging backfires severly after it is started. The problem is worse on humid days. If I put it inot neutral and floor it for 10 seconds, it seems to clear up. If driven normally, it clears up after 2-10 minutes of driving (about the same tiem that the engine warms up.) The problem briefly disappeared when I replaced spark plugs (not wires,) then got worse, got better again when I whacked the EGR valve with a wrench after two error codes pointed to a sticky EGR valve. The problem also improved briefly after I replaced the fuel filter. Another problem I just thought of: The transmission takes a long time, as much as 5-10 seconds after disengaging 2nd gear, to shift into 3rd. The harder I press the accelerator, the longer it takes. The harder I'm accelerating, the harder the shift is when it finally happens. I almost have to stop accelerating to get it to shift within a normal period of time.

11-24-2003, 10:10 AM	#4 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	I think its time you drive it off a cliff....Insurance __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

11-24-2003, 11:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	MSD, start by replacing the EGR valve and the coolant temp sensor. they wont be particularly expensive, nor are they particularly hard to replace. (note that you could also disassemble the EGR valve and clean it and reinstall. if it is just sticking and nothing else is wrong with it, you can save the cost of replacing it). that should improve driveability significantly. as to the water/antifreeze problem, exactly WHERE is it leaking from? without that info, its impossible to make any suggestions as what to do about it. the backfiring is certainly related to the EGR valve trouble, but could also have something to do with the "Cylinders 3,5,8 failed cylinder balance test". Im not sure what that means, as I've never heard that terminology, but if it is in any way related to compression, that means a rebuild is in order to correct. I wouldnt bother with that unless you plan to sink big $$ into it, which you've said you dont intend to. as for the tranny, try to find out if it has an electronic shift module or is vacuum operated. it sounds like the vacuum type, in which case a new modulator could be in order, or else a vacuum leak somewhere. in any case, check the warranty on that tranny, and if it is still valid, take it to where you got it and have them check it out. __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

11-23-2003, 11:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	In my opinion, the amount of money you're likely to spend on repairs may start inching towards the cars blue book value. If there is one thing that has caused my distaste for anything Ford related, its their ongoing ECU/electrical problems, which only go further and further downhill. The cylinder balance test may also indicate that an engine rebuild may not be too far down the road (also indicated by the very high mileage).

11-23-2003, 11:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
numist Banned Location: UCSD, 510.49 miles from my love	that engine sounds like a rebuild to me... 200k miles sounds like its past its shelf life, get the block resurfaced and put in some new pistons and a rebuilt head, and see what happens, but if you do it, do it yourself and get the mechanics manual for the car - nothing beats experience. The ECU will also be money gone... but if you do it, do it yourself. Fixing it will cost a lot of money though, so I'd suggest junking it unless you severely love it. In the end, learning about engines is best done by working on your own, and the learning curve is high during a rebuild. Great way to learn, but more expensive in time by far than a mechanic, but cheaper in the long run, because then you have more ability to work on it in the future (and if you rebuild it, you can expect another 100k miles on it at a minimum). Sorry :shrugs:

11-24-2003, 10:36 AM	#5 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I don't think a rebuild is worth it. The body is rusted through at one place, the suspension is old and creaky, the electrical system is starting to fail, and it gets about 14mpg (16 highway.) We're going to ditch it at some point and get something fuel-efficient for me to commute to school. All I need to do at the moment is keep it runing until I find a job and my mother finds a new one that pays better.

11-28-2003, 07:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
catback Psycho Location: North America	Seeing that you took the car to the mechanic for power steering pump change I doubt you will want to do any of the work that needs to be done cuse it's alot of work. If I were you I'd sell it or run it off a cliff cuse it's 10 years old now and the body probably doesn't look great enough to revive the car to great working order.