New or Used - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

denim · 07-29-2003, 07:26 AM

My car is on its last legs, so I'm looking at new cars. I specifically want a Honda Civic Hybrid, but they're currently in their first model year.

I got a quote for around US$18200 after a $1000 discount and a $1500 trade in, with a LoJack. I'm told this is a good price. However...

That'd be the biggest purchase I've ever made, bar none. I have no real estate. And I'm not sure it makes sense. I should be able to put down around $10K on the car by the time I'm ready, but I don't know if I should bother.

Maybe I should get a newer used car, say 2 or 3 years old, of another model. What's the main benefit of buying new versus used?

Should I wait for the 2004 model year and buy a discounted 2003? Should I wait for the new model year and buy a 2004 since it'll be the second model year? What do y'all figure?

Peryn · 07-29-2003, 09:13 AM

Well, first off, what makes you want the hybrid. Styling? Honda? Gas mileage? Thats something to consider as their might be other cars that meet your needs well for cheaper and used.

As far as new Vs. used goes... :

New car is nice, cause it is customized to exactly what you want in your car.
Maintenance isn't an issue, cause there were no previous owners to beat it up.
The smell.

On the other side, with used you dont hafta worry about depreciation when ya drive it off the lot.
A certified used car from a dealer almost always has a warranty far superior to that of a new car. (for example, mazda lets you use the new car warranty up, then an addition 80k bumper-to-bumper)
Better prices and insurance.

Just some things to think about. Personally i prefer used or certified used. Makes more sense economically, Practically new with the low mileage ones, good warranty.

FastShark85 · 07-29-2003, 09:45 AM

You'll still get depreciation with a used car, but it doesn't happen as sharply or quickly.

I used to hate the idea of getting a used car. Now that's all I get. My current car is 18 years old, though I do buy new ones for the wife to tote the kids around.

denim · 07-29-2003, 10:03 AM

Gas mileage is my main driving force, yes. Given that Civic is a VERY popular car, and I'm not hearing similar things about the Toyota Prius, though I should at least look at it, I'm leaning heavily toward the Civic.

The Honda Insight isn't a general purpose car, so while it has better mileage, it isn't a consideration since it has only two seats and no actual trunk.

No other makes have hybrids yet, though they might, for all I know, come out in the 2004 model year. Any such new models will be in their first model year, and my current car won't last long enough to make it to the 2005 model year.

Still, a used regular Civic or other car might be okay, depending on how "used" it is. Say two or three years...

zephog · 07-29-2003, 03:24 PM

I have got a fairly lengthy commute about 420 miles a week in driving. I was spending alot on fuel in my toyota truck. Chucked it in a bought a used Volkwagen Jetta TDI. I now get about 45-50 mpg depending on how far down I push the go pedal. I save about $60 per month in gas err diesel.

denim · 07-29-2003, 03:35 PM

I don't drive nearly that much. The hybrid cars tend to do well in city driving as well as highway, so that's to their advantage. Still, I take your point.

Moonduck · 07-31-2003, 12:57 PM

"Gas mileage is my main driving force, yes."

Actually, unless you plan on owning the car for looooong time, the extra cost will more than offset any savings in gas mileage. Additionally, the complexity and relative rarity of the drivetrain will mean higher maintainence costs in the long run.

If you like Hondas and want good MPG, check out a used Civic HX (I think it is the HX).

32v4c · 07-31-2003, 01:14 PM

The Civic hybrid isnt all its cracked up to be... the real world mpg #s are great... but not spectacular - certainly not far and away better than a nice diesel vw, which'll have more torque and a more classy cachet.

Pragma · 07-31-2003, 04:08 PM

If you're worried about gas mileage, but also don't want to pay a lot, I recommend buying a used foreign car - Japanese sedans (Accords, Integras, etc.) get very good gas mileage, plus can be picked up for less than half of what you'd pay for the Hybrid.

Ramega · 07-31-2003, 05:22 PM

Shop, shop, shop and buy used. I bought a '96 Mustang Cobra in '99. It had 7K miles on it. They guy bought it as a toy and never drove it. I paid $10,000 less than I would have paid for a new one, and it was basically new. It still has less than 50K miles on it, and it's almost 7 years old.

Pragma · 07-31-2003, 05:33 PM

Ebay has a lot of used vehicles on it, though I'm unsure exactly how much I trust it. Still, if you manage to find one you like fairly close enough to go inspect the car before bidding, it's an excellent way to get a cheap car.

WarWagon · 07-31-2003, 05:46 PM

Unfortunately since ebay has become so popular, most of the cars rarely go cheap any more. By book value, maybe, but they're usually far from great deals. Makes me yearn for the days when ebay wasn't very popular, and you could get ANYTHING at a ridiculously low price, and you didnt even have to sit there and stake the auction out down the last second.

I've never bought a car used, and its not likely I ever will. I often find used cars to be more reliable than new, because often the used cars will have been serviced at the dealership by the original owner when the problem first occurred, allowing you to forgo the nuisance of having to bring the car in about 15 times to be serviced in the first few weeks of ownership.

denim · 07-31-2003, 06:36 PM

I'm definitely looking at "used" now. And I wouldn't buy a domestic car. I like myself more than that.

A used Integra would be ideal, but it'd also be expensive.

I've got to do some serious research.

Peryn · 07-31-2003, 10:05 PM

i HIGHLY reccomend the VW TDI, or any of their other smaller motors, like the 1.8T. TDI gets like 45mpg city, more on the highway. Here, the deisel fuel is cheaper too.

Cheaper fuel + Better mileage = win win situation.

Also, unless you wait for the new 04 model of the prius, the Hybrids are waay underpowered for the most part. The VW is superb at performance, but better than real-world number than the hybrids. Plus it looks better (imo) and is more comfortable. i belive they have a TDI wagon too, for cargo space if ya need it. Though Audi makes expensive parts, it will be cheaper to fix, and easier to find a trult qualified technician than ANY of the hybrids.

Just my $0.02 , but i absolutely reccomend used (get certified if possible. Killer warranties on those things usually) and a turbo deisel for gas mileage. The civic is highly overrated. For its price, its not that good of an econobox, not all that powerful, and gas mileage isn't as great as most uninformed consumers think.

Slash · 08-01-2003, 02:45 AM

I would go for the VW. Much better car and very reliable.

Pragma · 08-01-2003, 01:54 PM

I have a used integra that I picked up for 2200$. It's a 92, 4 door, automatic. Not quite sporty, but it's pretty hefty in terms of speed.

denim · 08-01-2003, 05:28 PM

My current car is a 1993 Integra.

Two-door, manual. Got it 5 years ago for $8K.

Markaz · 08-01-2003, 10:49 PM

I'm all about used cars. Mainly because I'm a cheap bastard, but thats because when I was younger my parents friend retired at like 40 so I wana do the same. ANYWHOOOOO, I still have my pimping 73 'Cuda that my grandpa gave me in the garage.

Go used, save the cash for retirement!

Rodney · 08-04-2003, 08:24 PM

Integras are expensive because they perform well, look nice, and they last.

Buy a car you like, new or used, but choose one that's got a good track record on longevity and repairs. Save you a bunch of cash. I've only bought three cars in 30 years -- even though the first one, God help me, was a Vega!

denim · 08-04-2003, 09:26 PM

Maybe I just have an unusual one, then. It tends to come down with cooling issues.

Rodney · 08-04-2003, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by denim
Maybe I just have an unusual one, then. It tends to come down with cooling issues.

Older Honda/Acura products tend to get a few weird, flaky intermittent problems that usually aren't hard or expensive to solve if the mechanic is a Honda specialist. If he isn't, you're SOL.

denim · 08-05-2003, 03:56 AM

I've been using Honda/Acura people. Not much joy, honestly.

rodgerd · 08-05-2003, 11:52 AM

My take? Go used unless you've got cash to burn. Depreciation will kill you in most parts of the world; ypically you'll lose something like one third of your money driving off the lot.

One good option is to look to see if a dealer has any of last year's car with the balance of the warranty outstanding; you'll get a big discount over new, with most of the benefits of a new car.

At any given price point, you get more car second hand than you do new.

aintyoboyfriend · 08-05-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rodgerd
My take? Go used unless you've got cash to burn. Depreciation will kill you in most parts of the world; ypically you'll lose something like one third of your money driving off the lot.

One good option is to look to see if a dealer has any of last year's car with the balance of the warranty outstanding; you'll get a big discount over new, with most of the benefits of a new car.

At any given price point, you get more car second hand than you do new.

First, the disclaimer. I am in the Automobile business. I sell VW's. Here are some important positive and negative points to consider.

NEW Positives:
Never been beaten up/undermaintained by previous owner
Full Warranty (usually much better than certified used)
With the current market, and most makes at the '03/'03 change, prices and financing are low (I know we offer 1.9% on most of our cars)

NEW Negatives:
More expensive
Cannot be choosy at the end of the model year

USED Positives:
Less Depreciation
NEe car financing and pricing specials keeping pre owned values down
Less Expensive
Certified = Warranty

USED Negatives:
Higher interest rates
Unsure of previous owners maintenance habits
Not New(dents, dings, ect..)

All in all, depending on the vehicle that you are looking at, sometimes a 03 or a demo model will save you enough with interest and lowered cost to make up the difference.

If you have any specific questions, you can PM me.

I always suggest shopping for price on the internet, and using the guides available online (NADA, Edmunds, KBB) as they can save you a lot of hassle, and keep you from getting screwed.

denim · 08-05-2003, 04:19 PM

That's a beautiful post, Ainty. Thanks.

Given that you know VW, what's that line got most similar to an Integra?

Pragma · 08-05-2003, 05:02 PM

Hang on while I use my logic to try to explain what VW car I think is most similar to an Integra:

Integra is the Acura version of the Accord, a step up from the Civic.
Passat is a set up from the Jetta. The Passat is more frequently used as a "family car", while Jettas are the ones that the teenagers get, etc.

So I'd say that the Passat is the equivalent, but they do make 4 door Jettas, etc.

aintyoboyfriend · 08-05-2003, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by denim
That's a beautiful post, Ainty. Thanks.

Given that you know VW, what's that line got most similar to an Integra?

If you are looking for a sporty hatch, look into a GTI, either 1.8T or VR6. Both are quite quick, and a 1.8T can be had for under 19K these days. A Jetta 1.8T, or GLI (VR6) Are also nice if you are looking into a 4 door, but at a higher price.

A Passat would fall more into the midsize car range, with the Hondyota Camcords and such. I would say it was more of a Acura TSX competition, if anything.

stingc · 08-05-2003, 09:36 PM

You can buy a nice used car for a few thousand dollars pretty easily. An old car will also save you insurance money. Repairs won't be much if you shop wisely.

If you like two cars and are just worried about gas mileage, figure out how long it would take you to save the price difference in gas money. Its probably not worth it to pay a premium for better gas mileage unless you have a huge commute every day.

rodgerd · 08-05-2003, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WarWagon
Unfortunately since ebay has become so popular, most of the cars rarely go cheap any more. By book value, maybe, but they're usually far from great deals. Makes me yearn for the days when ebay wasn't very popular, and you could get ANYTHING at a ridiculously low price, and you didnt even have to sit there and stake the auction out down the last second.

That's the effect of dumb people showing up at auctions.

"Duuuh, I heard there would be bargains here. I'm gonna git me a bargain, no matter how much it costs!"

rodgerd · 08-05-2003, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aintyoboyfriend

With the current market, and most makes at the '03/'03 change, prices and financing are low (I know we offer 1.9% on most of our cars)

Ahh, financing.

The two stupidest things in the world you can buy on finance: cars and computers. They lose value faster than anything else, while you pay more and more for them.

denim · 08-06-2003, 04:08 AM

Pragma: The Integra is a "sporty" car. The Accord isn't, as far as I know. I don't know of a Honda like the Integra.

Ainty: I'll have to look those up. I've never looked at VW, or at any other German cars, so those models don't mean anything to me, off-hand. The only thing I know is that I'd not get a Bug.

Rodgerd: damn straight. Financing is not an issue, 'cause if I can't pay for it up-front, it's out of my price range. Financing is a Really Stupid Idea for most people.

Peryn · 08-06-2003, 09:56 AM

So gas is no longer an issue? If it still is, Go to a VW lot, test drive a TDI and get some info on it. Ainty could sell ya a VW better than i could, but it gets great mileage, uses the cheap fuel (diesel) and is a pretty comfy / ejoyable ride.

aintyoboyfriend · 08-07-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rodgerd
Ahh, financing.

The two stupidest things in the world you can buy on finance: cars and computers. They lose value faster than anything else, while you pay more and more for them.

financing is only an issue when rates are high.

If you pay cash for a 20,000 car, and you could have gotten 1.9% financing, you could certainly invest that 20,000 and make more than 2% on it. If you find a nice 5 year CD you could make 5-10% in returns alone, thus making money.

The Integra is based off of the Civic Platform, as the RSX is now.

As for the TDI, it is truely a great engine, quiet for a diesel, and in a stick can get up to 50 miles per gallon on the highway. Around these parts, the diesel gas cost about the same as midgrade unleaded. If I were you though, I would wait until January if a diesel is in the works, as a new more powerful version is due stateside.

definitely check out the GTI

or the jetta

in the 1.8T (180 HP) engines if you are looking for a sporty car that gets pretty good gas mileage.

denim · 08-07-2003, 08:22 PM

That bit about financing is true, as far as it goes. What it leaves out is the fact that an income stream can die w/o warning, at which point the amount you've paid is forfeit when they reposess "your" car. Also, that investment income is no more guaranteed than is anything else since "past performance is not an indicator of future returns".

I prefer a sane bet, since I can't guarantee the future. I can guarantee the past. Financing is right out.

07-29-2003, 07:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	New or Used My car is on its last legs, so I'm looking at new cars. I specifically want a Honda Civic Hybrid, but they're currently in their first model year. I got a quote for around US$18200 after a $1000 discount and a $1500 trade in, with a LoJack. I'm told this is a good price. However... That'd be the biggest purchase I've ever made, bar none. I have no real estate. And I'm not sure it makes sense. I should be able to put down around $10K on the car by the time I'm ready, but I don't know if I should bother. Maybe I should get a newer used car, say 2 or 3 years old, of another model. What's the main benefit of buying new versus used? Should I wait for the 2004 model year and buy a discounted 2003? Should I wait for the new model year and buy a 2004 since it'll be the second model year? What do y'all figure?

07-29-2003, 09:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	Well, first off, what makes you want the hybrid. Styling? Honda? Gas mileage? Thats something to consider as their might be other cars that meet your needs well for cheaper and used. As far as new Vs. used goes... : New car is nice, cause it is customized to exactly what you want in your car. Maintenance isn't an issue, cause there were no previous owners to beat it up. The smell. On the other side, with used you dont hafta worry about depreciation when ya drive it off the lot. A certified used car from a dealer almost always has a warranty far superior to that of a new car. (for example, mazda lets you use the new car warranty up, then an addition 80k bumper-to-bumper) Better prices and insurance. Just some things to think about. Personally i prefer used or certified used. Makes more sense economically, Practically new with the low mileage ones, good warranty. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

07-31-2003, 04:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	If you're worried about gas mileage, but also don't want to pay a lot, I recommend buying a used foreign car - Japanese sedans (Accords, Integras, etc.) get very good gas mileage, plus can be picked up for less than half of what you'd pay for the Hybrid. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

07-31-2003, 05:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	Ebay has a lot of used vehicles on it, though I'm unsure exactly how much I trust it. Still, if you manage to find one you like fairly close enough to go inspect the car before bidding, it's an excellent way to get a cheap car. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

07-31-2003, 10:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	i HIGHLY reccomend the VW TDI, or any of their other smaller motors, like the 1.8T. TDI gets like 45mpg city, more on the highway. Here, the deisel fuel is cheaper too. Cheaper fuel + Better mileage = win win situation. Also, unless you wait for the new 04 model of the prius, the Hybrids are waay underpowered for the most part. The VW is superb at performance, but better than real-world number than the hybrids. Plus it looks better (imo) and is more comfortable. i belive they have a TDI wagon too, for cargo space if ya need it. Though Audi makes expensive parts, it will be cheaper to fix, and easier to find a trult qualified technician than ANY of the hybrids. Just my $0.02 , but i absolutely reccomend used (get certified if possible. Killer warranties on those things usually) and a turbo deisel for gas mileage. The civic is highly overrated. For its price, its not that good of an econobox, not all that powerful, and gas mileage isn't as great as most uninformed consumers think. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

07-29-2003, 09:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
FastShark85 Psycho Location: In the garage, under the car.	You'll still get depreciation with a used car, but it doesn't happen as sharply or quickly. I used to hate the idea of getting a used car. Now that's all I get. My current car is 18 years old, though I do buy new ones for the wife to tote the kids around.

07-29-2003, 10:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	Gas mileage is my main driving force, yes. Given that Civic is a VERY popular car, and I'm not hearing similar things about the Toyota Prius, though I should at least look at it, I'm leaning heavily toward the Civic. The Honda Insight isn't a general purpose car, so while it has better mileage, it isn't a consideration since it has only two seats and no actual trunk. No other makes have hybrids yet, though they might, for all I know, come out in the 2004 model year. Any such new models will be in their first model year, and my current car won't last long enough to make it to the 2005 model year. Still, a used regular Civic or other car might be okay, depending on how "used" it is. Say two or three years...

07-29-2003, 03:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
zephog Upright Location: Silicon Valley	I have got a fairly lengthy commute about 420 miles a week in driving. I was spending alot on fuel in my toyota truck. Chucked it in a bought a used Volkwagen Jetta TDI. I now get about 45-50 mpg depending on how far down I push the go pedal. I save about $60 per month in gas err diesel.

07-29-2003, 03:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	I don't drive nearly that much. The hybrid cars tend to do well in city driving as well as highway, so that's to their advantage. Still, I take your point.

07-31-2003, 12:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	"Gas mileage is my main driving force, yes." Actually, unless you plan on owning the car for looooong time, the extra cost will more than offset any savings in gas mileage. Additionally, the complexity and relative rarity of the drivetrain will mean higher maintainence costs in the long run. If you like Hondas and want good MPG, check out a used Civic HX (I think it is the HX).

07-31-2003, 01:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
32v4c Upright	The Civic hybrid isnt all its cracked up to be... the real world mpg #s are great... but not spectacular - certainly not far and away better than a nice diesel vw, which'll have more torque and a more classy cachet.

07-31-2003, 05:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ramega Crazy	Shop, shop, shop and buy used. I bought a '96 Mustang Cobra in '99. It had 7K miles on it. They guy bought it as a toy and never drove it. I paid $10,000 less than I would have paid for a new one, and it was basically new. It still has less than 50K miles on it, and it's almost 7 years old.

07-31-2003, 05:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	Unfortunately since ebay has become so popular, most of the cars rarely go cheap any more. By book value, maybe, but they're usually far from great deals. Makes me yearn for the days when ebay wasn't very popular, and you could get ANYTHING at a ridiculously low price, and you didnt even have to sit there and stake the auction out down the last second. I've never bought a car used, and its not likely I ever will. I often find used cars to be more reliable than new, because often the used cars will have been serviced at the dealership by the original owner when the problem first occurred, allowing you to forgo the nuisance of having to bring the car in about 15 times to be serviced in the first few weeks of ownership.

07-31-2003, 06:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	I'm definitely looking at "used" now. And I wouldn't buy a domestic car. I like myself more than that. A used Integra would be ideal, but it'd also be expensive. I've got to do some serious research.

08-01-2003, 02:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
Slash Upright Location: NY and Around the World	I would go for the VW. Much better car and very reliable.

08-01-2003, 01:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	I have a used integra that I picked up for 2200$. It's a 92, 4 door, automatic. Not quite sporty, but it's pretty hefty in terms of speed. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

08-01-2003, 05:28 PM	#17 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	My current car is a 1993 Integra. Two-door, manual. Got it 5 years ago for $8K.

08-01-2003, 10:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
Markaz Tilted	I'm all about used cars. Mainly because I'm a cheap bastard, but thats because when I was younger my parents friend retired at like 40 so I wana do the same. ANYWHOOOOO, I still have my pimping 73 'Cuda that my grandpa gave me in the garage. Go used, save the cash for retirement! __________________ Tu madre está muy sabrosa

08-04-2003, 08:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Integras are expensive because they perform well, look nice, and they last. Buy a car you like, new or used, but choose one that's got a good track record on longevity and repairs. Save you a bunch of cash. I've only bought three cars in 30 years -- even though the first one, God help me, was a Vega!

08-04-2003, 09:26 PM	#20 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	Maybe I just have an unusual one, then. It tends to come down with cooling issues.

08-05-2003, 03:56 AM	#22 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	I've been using Honda/Acura people. Not much joy, honestly. Last edited by denim; 08-05-2003 at 04:01 AM..

08-05-2003, 11:52 AM	#23 (permalink)
rodgerd Psycho Location: Wellington, New Zealand	My take? Go used unless you've got cash to burn. Depreciation will kill you in most parts of the world; ypically you'll lose something like one third of your money driving off the lot. One good option is to look to see if a dealer has any of last year's car with the balance of the warranty outstanding; you'll get a big discount over new, with most of the benefits of a new car. At any given price point, you get more car second hand than you do new.

08-05-2003, 04:19 PM	#25 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	That's a beautiful post, Ainty. Thanks. Given that you know VW, what's that line got most similar to an Integra?

08-05-2003, 05:02 PM	#26 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	Hang on while I use my logic to try to explain what VW car I think is most similar to an Integra: Integra is the Acura version of the Accord, a step up from the Civic. Passat is a set up from the Jetta. The Passat is more frequently used as a "family car", while Jettas are the ones that the teenagers get, etc. So I'd say that the Passat is the equivalent, but they do make 4 door Jettas, etc. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

08-05-2003, 09:36 PM	#28 (permalink)
stingc Psycho Location: PA	You can buy a nice used car for a few thousand dollars pretty easily. An old car will also save you insurance money. Repairs won't be much if you shop wisely. If you like two cars and are just worried about gas mileage, figure out how long it would take you to save the price difference in gas money. Its probably not worth it to pay a premium for better gas mileage unless you have a huge commute every day.

08-06-2003, 04:08 AM	#31 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	Pragma: The Integra is a "sporty" car. The Accord isn't, as far as I know. I don't know of a Honda like the Integra. Ainty: I'll have to look those up. I've never looked at VW, or at any other German cars, so those models don't mean anything to me, off-hand. The only thing I know is that I'd not get a Bug. Rodgerd: damn straight. Financing is not an issue, 'cause if I can't pay for it up-front, it's out of my price range. Financing is a Really Stupid Idea for most people.

08-06-2003, 09:56 AM	#32 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	So gas is no longer an issue? If it still is, Go to a VW lot, test drive a TDI and get some info on it. Ainty could sell ya a VW better than i could, but it gets great mileage, uses the cheap fuel (diesel) and is a pretty comfy / ejoyable ride. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

08-07-2003, 08:22 PM	#34 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	That bit about financing is true, as far as it goes. What it leaves out is the fact that an income stream can die w/o warning, at which point the amount you've paid is forfeit when they reposess "your" car. Also, that investment income is no more guaranteed than is anything else since "past performance is not an indicator of future returns". I prefer a sane bet, since I can't guarantee the future. I can guarantee the past. Financing is right out.