P0441 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Xerxys · 08-03-2009, 12:38 PM

So I drive an '01 Oldsmobile IntrigueGX and it has a the EVAP OBD-II code P0441. Before I purchased the vehicle ... I got the car inspected for defects and provided a list of things the owner should either take off the price or fix himself. He agreed to take off the price partly because he was desparate to get rid of it but also because I had the mechanic who worked on it quote insane fix prices. Ain't I a little stinker ...

Anyway, about the code, the EVAP system is something that is preventing me from passing an inspection and I think it might have something to do with the float in the gas tank. I'm not quite sure it could not actually be leaking evaporated gas from somewhere but because I don't want to spend money on diagnosing it again ... I'm willing to see if one thing fixes the other.

My question is, could the erratic behavior of the fuel gauge be causing the code? Could it be, that the float could be broken, hence leaking gas, hence causing the code?

I understand that they all could be totally unrelated and I purchased a lemon. I understand that they could be independent incidents but indulge me here. Fuel gauge could be broken, causing the leak, setting off the code, is this possible?

The fuel gauge moves up and sits at full at all times uinless when the car has just been started and was cold. It also moves up and down slightly according to the general inclinitation of the car. This is why it led me to believe it's the float and not the ground wire.

Diagnosing the code will consist of the mechanich draining my fuel tank. Sealing it and blowing smoke through the entire fuel system. Any leak of smoke will be the cause of it. This is also an expense I want to see if it is worth risking a guess by not doing it.

I already reset the code and drove it for a week. It came back on when my fuel tank was empty but the gauge was sitting at full!!

What do y'all think?:

JStrider · 08-03-2009, 06:53 PM

fill up gas tank... reset code... pass inspection...

repeat every year... thats what I would do...

Xerxys · 08-03-2009, 06:58 PM

^^lol, you have abad fuel gauge too?

Passing inspection is not the hard part ... what I want to know is how to fix the gauge and know what the code is. You see P0441 is not very specific. It could be leaking from an opening the size of the eye of a needle pretty much anywhere.

fiatguy85 · 08-03-2009, 07:43 PM

From that description, I tend to think they are unrelated, unless it's electrical. So you could start by checking the wiring to the fuel level sensor and the EVAP sensor and any associated fuses.

The fuel gage is inside the tank so a leak in the float will not leak to atmosphere and will cause it to sink to empty. So I would say this is most likely a wiring issue or failed sensor/sending unit. I think this can be expensive to replace on some cars because the fuel pump is on the same assembly, but maybe you can purchase it separately, you'll have to look that up for your car.

You can give the evap system a cursory inspection yourself. I'd start by checking the gas cap and making sure it's in good shape. Typically there are 2 or 3 metal lines that run the length of the car and rubber hoses on either end which are routed to the fuel tank at the rear and the fuel rail, carbon canister ect. at the front. If you can locate where these lines come up under the firewall and into the fuel tank, you can trace them and see the components of the system. You'll want to check the rubber lines and associated hardware, as that's where the leak would most likely be. If liquid gas is leaking, there could be a sticky residue near the leak. There will also be a vacuum line connected to the components of the system which you'll need to find as well since it could cause the problem if it is leaking or missing. All in all it is a lot to check and will take considerable time.

Personal non-expert advice, my brain says most likely electrical rather than an actual leak, with the most likely cause being a bad fuel tank sensor or bad wiring for the gas gage and a bad solenoid or sensor or missing vacuum line for the evap system. I don't think they're related.

Xerxys · 08-10-2009, 03:12 PM

OK, so the bloody vehicle has begun what a random search on google described as a "misfiring"!!

JStrider ... I took your advice by the way ... you stinker!

I was driving down the street, minding my own business, then all of a sudden I notice something on my dash board ... the lights would go on and the dials would collapse. For an instant, then regain consiousness. Scary shit while doing 80 on a 65 zone highway. Lucky I never drank today.

So after that the light came back on and this time gave me code 442 instead of 441.

I'm gonna get the engine cleaned and check out what could be the problem but I have yet to perform the smoke test. I also haven't fixed the fuel gauge but my question is ... what would cause the flash of the lights ... you know, besides the bitch being haunted.

JStrider · 08-10-2009, 07:00 PM

I drove an old ford explorer with a bad float that always read empty for 5 years... never fixed it...

usually misfiring is just the engine stumbling and not running smoothly...

are you saying the whole thing went dead for a moment? like engine stop, all lights off etc? maybe that could be a bad ground and you lost all electrical systems? I dunno man I'm not any kind of expert...

08-03-2009, 12:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	Help me!! P0441! So I drive an '01 Oldsmobile IntrigueGX and it has a the EVAP OBD-II code P0441. Before I purchased the vehicle ... I got the car inspected for defects and provided a list of things the owner should either take off the price or fix himself. He agreed to take off the price partly because he was desparate to get rid of it but also because I had the mechanic who worked on it quote insane fix prices. Ain't I a little stinker ... Anyway, about the code, the EVAP system is something that is preventing me from passing an inspection and I think it might have something to do with the float in the gas tank. I'm not quite sure it could not actually be leaking evaporated gas from somewhere but because I don't want to spend money on diagnosing it again ... I'm willing to see if one thing fixes the other. My question is, could the erratic behavior of the fuel gauge be causing the code? Could it be, that the float could be broken, hence leaking gas, hence causing the code? I understand that they all could be totally unrelated and I purchased a lemon. I understand that they could be independent incidents but indulge me here. Fuel gauge could be broken, causing the leak, setting off the code, is this possible? The fuel gauge moves up and sits at full at all times uinless when the car has just been started and was cold. It also moves up and down slightly according to the general inclinitation of the car. This is why it led me to believe it's the float and not the ground wire. Diagnosing the code will consist of the mechanich draining my fuel tank. Sealing it and blowing smoke through the entire fuel system. Any leak of smoke will be the cause of it. This is also an expense I want to see if it is worth risking a guess by not doing it. I already reset the code and drove it for a week. It came back on when my fuel tank was empty but the gauge was sitting at full!! What do y'all think?: Last edited by Xerxys; 08-10-2009 at 03:07 PM..

08-03-2009, 06:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	fill up gas tank... reset code... pass inspection... repeat every year... thats what I would do... __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

08-10-2009, 03:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	P0442 OK, so the bloody vehicle has begun what a random search on google described as a "misfiring"!! JStrider ... I took your advice by the way ... you stinker! I was driving down the street, minding my own business, then all of a sudden I notice something on my dash board ... the lights would go on and the dials would collapse. For an instant, then regain consiousness. Scary shit while doing 80 on a 65 zone highway. Lucky I never drank today. So after that the light came back on and this time gave me code 442 instead of 441. I'm gonna get the engine cleaned and check out what could be the problem but I have yet to perform the smoke test. I also haven't fixed the fuel gauge but my question is ... what would cause the flash of the lights ... you know, besides the bitch being haunted.

08-10-2009, 07:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	I drove an old ford explorer with a bad float that always read empty for 5 years... never fixed it... usually misfiring is just the engine stumbling and not running smoothly... are you saying the whole thing went dead for a moment? like engine stop, all lights off etc? maybe that could be a bad ground and you lost all electrical systems? I dunno man I'm not any kind of expert... __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

08-03-2009, 06:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	^^lol, you have abad fuel gauge too? Passing inspection is not the hard part ... what I want to know is how to fix the gauge and know what the code is. You see P0441 is not very specific. It could be leaking from an opening the size of the eye of a needle pretty much anywhere.

08-03-2009, 07:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
fiatguy85 Crazy	From that description, I tend to think they are unrelated, unless it's electrical. So you could start by checking the wiring to the fuel level sensor and the EVAP sensor and any associated fuses. The fuel gage is inside the tank so a leak in the float will not leak to atmosphere and will cause it to sink to empty. So I would say this is most likely a wiring issue or failed sensor/sending unit. I think this can be expensive to replace on some cars because the fuel pump is on the same assembly, but maybe you can purchase it separately, you'll have to look that up for your car. You can give the evap system a cursory inspection yourself. I'd start by checking the gas cap and making sure it's in good shape. Typically there are 2 or 3 metal lines that run the length of the car and rubber hoses on either end which are routed to the fuel tank at the rear and the fuel rail, carbon canister ect. at the front. If you can locate where these lines come up under the firewall and into the fuel tank, you can trace them and see the components of the system. You'll want to check the rubber lines and associated hardware, as that's where the leak would most likely be. If liquid gas is leaking, there could be a sticky residue near the leak. There will also be a vacuum line connected to the components of the system which you'll need to find as well since it could cause the problem if it is leaking or missing. All in all it is a lot to check and will take considerable time. Personal non-expert advice, my brain says most likely electrical rather than an actual leak, with the most likely cause being a bad fuel tank sensor or bad wiring for the gas gage and a bad solenoid or sensor or missing vacuum line for the evap system. I don't think they're related.