jhawk

I'm starting to look for a new car, and want to give the American cars a look. I live in a rural area and do mostly highway driving. The only dealer in my town is a Chevy dealer, but I'm willing to travel, within reason. My last few cars have been SAABs or Japanese cars. I do most of my own mechanical work.
I want a mid-size (Malibu/Stratus/Taurus) 4-door, prefer V-6 (or inline 6) for power, and I want a manual transmission. I don't want a 4-cyl, and I don't want an automatic. I don't want a truck or SUV. I can't seem to find any American cars that offer a manual, except Cadillac, and that's out of my price range. Any suggestions?? Or should I go back to my Japs and Swedes?

BadNick

Since you have a Chevy dealer nearby I thought of the new Malibu, which looks like a pretty decent design and roomy for a midsize, but it doesn't come with a manual tranny. I thought you'd have a problem finding manual in midsize cars but what about a Cobalt, you can get 4dr and manual trans?

shakran

I'm a little confused as to why you'd want to go American instead of a japanese car. I'd look at an Accord myself. You can get 'em in V6 and with a manual. OR, if you have the scratch, get an Acura TSX or TL - - -they're fantastic cars.

newtx

I agree with shakran. The Honda accord or Accura TL. But back to your question, the Ford Taurus SES is probably the most bang for your buck in an American ride. Very reliable, power is adaquate, comfort level is well above average and comes standard with alloy wheels. I've seen these with well over 100k miles and still driving pretty much as new. Power windows, cruise, locks etc. don't usually go out even when the odometer keeps climbing.
Most American cars over 100k will drive you nuts when all the creature comforts start going out. The Taurus is easier to work on and service. Most any mechanic can handle repairs for you.

eribrav

What do you mean by "American" exactly?

I take it you mean built by a company headquartered in Detroit?

What about my Subaru that was built by American hands? Why doesn't that count, or does it?

catback

Knew once I saw the title I'd see a few "why not get a japanese car" posts...granted not all of tfp are americans but it's come to sadden me when I see americans with such an attitude and with the current economy some foreign car owners (some owned by autoworkers) wonder/speculate what the american car company is doing wrong...Now with all that american built japanese crap, might as well be a japanese built car. All the money ends up in japanese headquartered pockets and all the execs are shipped fresh from japan. It's really a mockery on americans when japanese companys build a factory in the US and employ american line workers but fly their execs in from japan (of which their english is usually terrible) whilst the city/state/federal governments are giving the company monetary breaks all around the biggest being tax breaks (used to lure the company to build in a certain city/state) and the absence of an import tax (since the cars are built in the country)...Shit I wish anyone would give me large dollar incentives to build a company in a certain location.

Food for thought, One honda sub-company that made parts built a multi-million dollar factory in ohio. To have the company build in ohio, ohio gave the company benefits and tax breaks that together totalled up to the amount it cost to build the factory. In essence the factory was built for free, well not exactly, americans paid for it. If that isn't bad enough to add to that an established american owned competitor close to where the factory was built was put out of business by honda before the japanese owned parts factory was even complete. Apparently honda contracted the american company but in contract said the company has to use machines supplied by honda, the machines were crap making bad parts and always breaking when making the parts. The owner of course spent money to get them fixed but contract dictated that honda authorized (flew in from japan) technicians were the only ones that could repair the machines. He spent basically all the companies money to try to keep working the honda account. Close to when the japanese owned parts factory (really just owned by honda) was finished honda terminated the contract on the basis that the american company was making low production and inferior parts. Of course the new japanese owned factory was nice enough to hire the newly unemployed workers for a lower pay/benefit package (since they were new and no seniority). So when people say why don't you want a honda (or any japanese car for that matter) it basically goes down to why don't you want a foreign car that built a parts factory in my home country using money from my fellow american's wallet whilst at the same time put an american owned parts maker out of business. If you haven't picked up on it yet, I'm very much anti-foreign car. Don't matter how good a car it's supposed to be because in the end it's horrible on the local economy.

shakran

I should stop you here and point out that the OP specifically asked if he should stick with his japanese or sweedish cars.


OK look, I've seen this argument a thousand times and it's been bullshit every time. Patriotism does not mean we have to invite personal economic ruin or repair headaches. The Japanese are making better cars. Period. I find the "but we're AMERICAN" argument to be an extremely poor one if you're trying to sell me a car. I'd be much happier if Ford or Chevy could say "but we're the better CAR." Seems to me the American way should be to make the best product, period. But right now it seems some want the American way to be petulant whining when people avoid our inferior product. Make the car well and people will flock to you. Not so very long ago the perception in this country was that everything made in Japan was utter crap. And it often was. They turned it around and started producing stellar vehicles, and people took notice. If America did the same, people would notice as well.




I cut out the rest of the paragraph for length purposes, but I'd be interested in seeing a link to some sort of source that backs up your claims.

bobby

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Tech

outside of muscle i steer clear of american made. while nothing beats a good mustang or charger, lots of things are better at what they do than malibu's and the like.

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Borla

To get back on topic, there are actually very few mid-sized V6 cars I can think of that are domestic and come with a manual transmission option.


The Ford Fusion comes with a manual transmission option, and a 3.0 V6. But that is kind of small. :shrug: I can't really think of too much else except cars that are even smaller than that.

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james t kirk

What about the Ford 500

Although they are boring looking, they have all wheel drive (unheard of in North America) and the price is right.

Martian

Let me preface this by saying I have the heart and soul of a GM man. General Motors is very much a part of my family, as it is a large number of people in this town.

...Which is why you'll probably be surprised to hear me say go foreign.

For what you want, particularly that you want a V6 standard, you're going to have a hard time in the domestic market. A mid-size V6 around here is generally marketed as a family vehicle. This is smack dab in the middle of your sports/luxury cars (typically V8's although I4's and V6's are becoming more common here) which go for the big bucks and the entry-level/economy cars (think Cobalts, Sunfires, SX 2.0 etc) down at the other end. The economy cars are marketed with standard to bring the price down, typically with auto as an option and the higher end stuff is generally marketed to the slightly more affluent and offers standard as a driving experience (again, with the option for auto). The cars in between are generally classed as utility cars, designed for comfort, cargo space and ride. They tend to forego the standard transmissions because it's generally viewed that the folks in this market are probably going to want automatic anyway (and will be at the point in their lives where they don't need to save a few bucks by going standard). This ultimately brings design/development costs down; GM's entire V6 line-up is designed with no standard transmission compatible to it and hasn't been for years. That's one component that doesn't have to be designed, tested and built. One less factory line, less employees, less overhead.

The good news is, it's probably temporary. Automatics are pretty much a North American curiosity. We use 'em heavily, but most of the rest of the world ignores them. This is why, incidentally, the foreign cars all come with stick; it's already designed and implemented in their home markets, so all they have to do is import. As the Big Three continue to merge development and operations with their overseas holdings, I'd expect to see a resurgence of stick shifts in North America; the transmissions are already being designed and built overseas, so much of the savings from avoiding them is nullified anyway. Given that, and given that a lot of your 18-24 year old males are making the move to standard these days, I could see the Big Three bringing them over here. 18-24 year old males is a particularly choice market, because that's where you engender brand loyalty. A guy who buys a good Chevy at 16 will probably buy more Chevys as he gets older and wealthier. It's also a market that's heavy dominated by the Asian imports these days.

So, yeah. If you have your heart set on both a V6 and a standard transmission, you're probably going to want to look at foreign cars for now. Domestics still need a few years to catch up, but they are taking the hint.

Slowly.

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merkerguitars

Actually you can't buy the fusion with the v6 and the manual transmission. The manual transmission only comes as an option for the 4 cylinder only.

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waltert

you're right, in the entry level car market, the US manufacturers are behind. I was trying to decide between a hyundai elantra and a chevy cavalier.. the hyundai had a nicer interior, power windows, locks, and AC standard...and the price was good as well as the warranty.

my elantra has given me 60,000 trouble frre miles so far, and i find myself looking at the new hyundai offerings more than other companies.

that being said, if my next car is to be a truck or sports car....I'll be buying american =P

jorgelito

Does it have to be manual? I always thought a used (not beat up) Crown vic would be a good solid car. But I've never seen a manual. But it has power.

By the way, many "American" cars are made in Mexico. Thanks GM!

Lockjaw

Mercury Milan is nice. The Pontiac G6 is sporty but it's kind of pricey.

Lockjaw

The Vic doesn't come in an auto but it is a nice car. And you can get them for really cheap. My mother still has a 93 Crown Vic that still runs strong at 150k miles.

jorgelito

Thanks for the clarification - I always thought the Crown Vic was auto. It;s one of my favorite cars (I feel old!).

Martian

I think Lockjaw got a bit confused. Crown Vic's are automatic; they don't come with standard transmissions.

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hemiram57

My company car is an 05 malibu with the V6. While not good looking or something I would buy with my own money, it is not a bad car. The power is ok, the handling is nice and it has yet to go to the dealer for a problem. Most of my co-workers have taurus's and they are terrible cars(It was the only car option prior to 05). They have no acceleration, handle worse than my dads 3/4 ton truck and give exactly no feedback from the road. Most of them also have tranny problems, power window problems, and power steering problems. Oh, and the brakes are bad as well. If you can't tell, I'm not a big fan of them. The pontiac grand prix or G6 (same as malibu but looks better) might be something you should take a look at if you have to go american midsize. I would rather have a charger or 300 though.

souzafone

The Z body Malibu & G6 are Saabs in sheeps clothing. If you're already famliar and like Sabb's give these a good look.

blade02

I'd go with a Ford Fusion. Pretty much the same platform as the Mazda6. That and the Fivehundred and Mercury Milan look like pretty good cars.

Borla

Has anyone even been able to come up with ANY car that meets the criteria of:

1) Mid-sized
2) American made and American brand name
3) V6
4) Manual transmission
5) 4-door

Those are what the OP laid down, but for the life of me I can't think of one single vehicle that fits.

There are a few that hit 4 out of 5, but I don't know that the new car exists that hits 5 out of 5.

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blade02

I'm not sure if you'd count them as midsize, but the Lincoln LS v-6 model is available with a manual. Also the Cadillac CTS can be had with a v-6 and manual tranny. Im not sure about the tranny options on the Charger/Magnums or if the new Caliber is available with a v-6.

Borla

In the first post he said Cadillac was out of his price range, so I'm guessing Lincoln would be too. I don't think the Charger or Magnum come with anything but automatics. The Caliber only comes in a 4-banger IIRC.

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Lockjaw

Yep. I was typing while reading and I put auto instead of manual.

shakran

Uhh. . .Yeah. Very good. That was indeed opinion.

Well except for the part about the Japanese making better cars. Look up the reliability records.

Lockjaw

Well...Buick for a bit had the most reliable car if we want to go by that.

Actually that's one I don't think has been mentioned. The Lucerne is a very good car.

BTW I wouldn't say Japanese as a catch all. Only Toyota and Honda are more reliable. Nissan for example has worse reliability than GM and Ford. I think the only name plate they are better than is Dodge.

shakran

Buick had a car (the Regal) which was listed in the most reliable category in Consumer Reports in 2004. Unfortuantely 1) lots of cars make that category. The Regal is not necessarilly the MOST reliable car, it's just among them and 2) the Regal has been discontinued

Plus, if you look at that particular list, Honda and Toyota (I'm counting Acura and Lexus here) had 6 of the 10 most reliable cars. With Nissan and Hyundai taking another 2, that leaves only 2 American cars for the list. So by the numbers in that year, Japan still had it over America.

source: http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/a...o_reliability/


And as for the Lucerne, it is not offered with a manual transmission.

Lockjaw

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....e&aff=national

In the top 5. One Japanese. Two American.
Automakers as a whole. To be frank...Toyota is starting to have problems as well. The Avalon is not a well respected vehicle anymore. The Camary has had more than a few problems. American cars are improving. I don't think it can be taken for granted that one should not even bother looking at an American car. If he decides to stick with a Japanese car AFTER looking at an American vehicle...fine. But don't you think it's silly to say don't even consider the American stuff based on the "Japanese are making better cars" when this is not always true.

shakran

that's not the only reason we're sayign it though. He says he wants a midsized sedan with a manual transmission. The Americans are not making one. That kinda eliminates American cars right there, doesn't it?

Lockjaw

No not really. The G6 has a 6 speed.

Ample

I'll second that. I bought a new 6 about two month ago, and absolutely love it. Mine however is a 4 cyl and a manual, that is what I wanted. The 6 comes with a lot of features standard. The only thing I could of think of that I would like to have extra is a sunroof. My ex has a new Acura RSX and wanted me to straight out trade her. Give the 6 a look, you wont have any regrets.

Lockjaw

The Mazdaspeed 6 is out. That thing is nice.

Poppinjay

We have a fairly new Malibu. It's comfortable, the 3.1 is powerful enough, and it's pretty. Unfortunately, it's also close to a lemon. Too many little problems too soon.

We're looking at the Saturn Ion, which you can get with manual shift, and a 177hp 2.4 engine. Plus, the gas mileage is better than some hybrids.

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laconic1

I didn't realize it until I just looked but yeah, sure enough the G6 GTP is available with a 6 speed manual, and a 3.9 v6. That would probably be pretty fun and the G6 isn't a bad looking car. Also the price seems reasonable, mid 20s.

CantFocus

I second that one. Very nice car. It has awd and a turbo charged 2.3 liter duratec. It has about the same power as a EVO i believe so it is not lacking at all. Great car all around.

DEI37

Yeah, was gonna mention that G6 GTP. You can get it in a four door AND a six speed! Now, if only it was rear drive.

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