How bad are cloves (blacks) relative to drinking? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dalnet22 · 09-07-2005, 09:19 AM

I was introduced to Blacks the other day, and I really like them. I've never smoked cigarettes, and I've smoked marijuana several times. Does anyone know how bad they are for you relative to everything else? Also, do you think it's worse to smoke Blacks or to drink a lot of alcohol? Thanks.

09-07-2005, 09:29 AM

This must be some kind of new street thing the kids are all into these days? - What's a clove, or a black? Some of us old folk have been around a bit you know, but you're going to have to translate for those of us who aren't keeping up with the Gangstas if you want our help.

dalnet22 · 09-07-2005, 09:44 AM

I thought it was pretty common. They're called Djarum Blacks, and they look like cigarettes.

Here's a picture of the box: http://faucetscreen.com/images/topics/black.gif

09-07-2005, 09:54 AM

Wow, looks like they've been around for a while - I just never heard of them before - A little poking around turned up this link that might be worth reading: http://members.aol.com/beatnik/cloves/main.htm

Redlemon · 09-07-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalnet22

I was introduced to Blacks the other day, and I really like them. I've never smoked cigarettes, and I've smoked marijuana several times. Does anyone know how bad they are for you relative to everything else? Also, do you think it's worse to smoke Blacks or to drink a lot of alcohol? Thanks.

"Compared to everything else" is a pretty broad question. Based on 5 minutes of surfing, it looks like clove cigarettes are either "as harmful" as cigarettes, or "more harmful". May contain more tar and other things compared to cigarettes, and they still contain about 60% tobacco. The numbing effect of the cloves may lead to more smoke inhalation.

Stare At The Sun · 09-07-2005, 11:34 AM

They are, from what i've heard 5x as bad as normal cig's and if you smoke a lot of them(2 packs a day like) they can actually make your lungs bleed. A pack or so a week,and you'll be AOK.

Besides, they are great convo starters, and taste great.

raeanna74 · 09-07-2005, 11:37 AM

I know nearly nothing about these particular things. I do know about Clove oil as I have used it in place of Ben Gay at times. Cloves have a serious numbing effect and are frequently used in dental work INSIDE a filling to help with nerve sensitivity. You should not use Clove Oil frequently in are particular place of your body because, if say you use it on a bad knee regularly, eventually the skin and some muscles just inside the skin can begin to loose some of their feeling. The cloves oil can deaden the nerves permanantly.

In theory - smoking these would eventually numb your throat and mouth to the point that you would not notice a cavity beginning to hurt, a sore beginning from the tobacco, or a sore early enough to catch an infection or cancer and safely treat it. I guess I would caution that you not use them frequently and that even when you do use them you visually examine your mouth and throat to prevent anything possibly getting out of hand.

there's my 2 cents

sailor · 09-07-2005, 11:53 AM

Disclaimer, Ive never used them, only heard of them from friends.

From what I hear, they taste great, but are even worse for you than cigarettes. Which are generally worse for you than drinking, so long as you arent going out and getting trashed frequently.

I'd say the same thing I say about tobacco: fine when used in careful moderation, you only live once, but dont make anything resembling a habit of it.

ratbastid · 09-07-2005, 01:04 PM

Here's the official <a href="http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2317.html">Go Ask Alice</a> answer to the question, comparing health effects of cloves versus regular cigs:

Quote:

Contrary to popular belief, clove cigarettes, also called kreteks, contain tobacco — they are made up of 60 - 70 percent tobacco and 30 - 40 percent shredded cloves (a spice). Considering their tobacco content, clove cigarettes are probably as harmful and dangerous as regular cigarettes. As a matter of fact, kreteks may hold even more risk than ordinary smokes. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), clove cigarettes produce at least twice as much nicotine, tar, and carbon monoxide as regular American cigarettes brands.

Plus, there may be an additional risk due to their clove content. The major active ingredient in cloves is eugenol, which is a topical anesthetic used in dentistry. The short- and long-term health effects of eugenol are not well known, and little inhalation toxicology research has been done on this substance. However, when smoked, eugenol numbs the throat and impairs the gag reflex. This anesthetizing effect could cause some problems; for example, liquids and/or food could more easily go down the wrong pipe. Smokers may not feel the harshness of the smoke as strongly, so they are more likely to inhale the smoke more deeply and hold it in the lungs for a longer period of time before exhaling. As a result, it's possible, or even likely, that eugenol has the potential to facilitate lung infections, respiratory illnesses, or allergic reactions in certain users, especially in smokers with existing breathing problems and/or other sensitivities.

Although clove cigarette smokers share some adverse health symptoms, such as nausea, vomiting, allergic reactions, bronchitis, pneumonia, and coughing up blood, the cause-and-effect relationship between smoking clove cigarettes and these symptoms has not yet been definitively established. Regardless, it seems reasonable to assume that clove cigarettes are as harmful and dangerous or even more so than standard cigarettes.

Clove cigarettes are one of several kinds of alternative smokes. Others include bidis (tiny, inexpensive, flavored dark tobacco containing cigarettes hand rolled with a dried tendu leaf), herbal or vegetable-based cigarettes with no tobacco and nicotine, and additive-free, natural tobacco cigarettes. Often, alternative cigarette smokers are part of the under 30 crowd. People smoke the "alternatives" because they think that they are cool and/or safer, healthier, and more natural to smoke than standard smokes. Cool or not, smoking alternative cigarettes can be as harmful and even dangerous to one's health as regular ones.

Is it worse to smoke cloves/blacks or to drink a lot of alcohol? That's like: what's better, an apple or an orange?

I'll only add this: cloves are very very very very very wonderful and I love them, even though I don't smoke anymore. And yes, they're way bad for you.

Rodney · 09-07-2005, 08:05 PM

Inhaling almost any smoke is bad for you on some level. I can't think of any smoke that's exactly good. All smoke contains combustion products which are toxic to a greater or lesser degree.

That said: clove cigarettes are more popular in Asia, and they have been brought to this country before. In the '80s, a friend of mine managed a cigarette warehouse in San Francisco for a Malaysian company that was attempting to popularize clove cigarettes in the U.S.. It didn't really catch on; but since then, it has been possible to get clove cigarettes in this country if you really wanted to.

skinnymofo · 09-08-2005, 07:04 AM

cloves are fucking great. i love the sweet taste on my lips afterwords.
as for which is worse... id say pick your poison. you are either killing your lungs or killing your liver. and chances are, if you are drinking, and have smokes, your going to be doing both at the same time. so really, its almost a moot question no?

Blaise · 09-09-2005, 07:04 AM

You can't compare them to say which is worse. Short term, alcohol is often worse- no one ever had one cigarette too many and got in a fight, had a one night stand they regret, tried to drive and killed other people.. but long term, sensible drinking in moderation is probably less likely to affect your health than smoking, and you won't damage other people through secondhand effects. Cloves don't just look like cigarettes, they ARE cigarettes and they have the same effect on your health, sometimes worse. Though djarum blacks do have a filter at least, which many cloves and flavoured cigarettes don't

vanblah · 09-09-2005, 08:14 AM

Back in my goth days (mid-late 80's) EVERYBODY smoked cloves. The entire club smelled like a cheap Thanksgiving ham. We're all still alive ... but that's only been 20 years; hardly a lifetime of smoking. You'll probably get tired of cloves long before any real harm is done ... just don't move on to "regular" cigarettes. Your lungs will heal if you're able to stop smoking right now.

There was a brand of perfumed cigarettes back then too ... they were pink with gold filters. They may still be around. They were wretched smelling ... I can't imagine what horrible toxins they put into your lungs. The girl that smoked them is still alive and cancer-free (as far as we know). She doesn't smoke anything anymore though.

Locke00000 · 09-18-2005, 12:12 PM

I never smoked, and my first introduction was with cloves. I smoked solely cloves for about 4 months. They are great conversation starters when smoking with a group (ie. what are you smoking..blabla..what do you prefer..blabla). Sooner or later, you will realize that 7 bucks a pack is a bit rediculous. You will start smoking regular cigarettes, and then you will be in the same camp as everyone who "at one time" smoked cloves. They just don't seem the same when I go back to them. They can almost give me a headache now, but I still smoke them ocassionally for "old times sake". I love em, but realize that they are more of a "gateway" into smoking than regular cigarettes, simply because you will notice the difference in price almost immedietly once you stop smoking cloves. I enjoy them, and can't really give you any medical advice...but think about it...

analog · 09-18-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalnet22

I thought it was pretty common. They're called Djarum Blacks, and they look like cigarettes.

Here's a picture of the box: http://faucetscreen.com/images/topics/black.gif

ick ick ick ick ICK.... seriously... you don't want those. Those are like... ick *makes a grossed-out face*

THOSE are what you want. Sampoerna Extra. Available pretty much anywhere that sells any type of clove cigarettes, they're very popular- for a reason. They're the best. The tip has a lightly sweet taste to it, and the smell and taste of the cigarette itself is far superior to ANY clove I have ever tasted, especially the one you referenced above (if you like those, you should really try the Sampoerna, you'll be loving them). Not like they're expensive, either, they're normal price for a pack of anything.

I do not smoke in general, I only smoke when I'm drinking or very lightly at a club (but i'm also usually drinking then too, so same thing). A box usually lasts me more than a month, sometimes almost two because I smoke that little.

As far as the smoking itself, both smoking and drinking have long-term detrimental effects to your health. I would think that smoking is the more pertinent only because you have multiple sources of cancer from smoking, not to mention "difficulty breathing" is shitty for the late years of your life. Of course, kidney damage isn't much better.

For me personally, I say moderation in all things... which is why I only smoke and drink socially. It's not best, as only staying away entirely is best (obviously), but it's a good enough balance as far as I'm concerned.

noodle · 09-18-2005, 02:52 PM

I'm a regular smoker, trying to quit as always. But if I go out and smoke a few cloves, I usually feel like I'm hacking up a lung the next day. Djarum lights. I have allergies so I'm always coughing, but man, the crap that comes out of my lungs after a few cloves has horrified me. Though I love that sweet taste they leave on my lips I can't bring myself to smoke them anymore.

MojoRisin · 09-18-2005, 03:27 PM

What sort of 'high' do you get from smoking cloves?

nack104 · 09-18-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicked4182

What sort of 'high' do you get from smoking cloves?

My head feels like 100 pounds, everything gets blurry, and I feel content. Smoke one of these right after smoking a bowl and you'll take off. That's my lesson learned from this weekend.

Carno · 09-18-2005, 06:07 PM

I like to smoke a Black and Mild every once in a while. Swisher Sweets are good as well.

EDIT: usually when I am drunk as fuck.

09-07-2005, 09:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
dalnet22 Crazy	How bad are cloves (blacks) relative to drinking? I was introduced to Blacks the other day, and I really like them. I've never smoked cigarettes, and I've smoked marijuana several times. Does anyone know how bad they are for you relative to everything else? Also, do you think it's worse to smoke Blacks or to drink a lot of alcohol? Thanks.

09-07-2005, 11:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	I know nearly nothing about these particular things. I do know about Clove oil as I have used it in place of Ben Gay at times. Cloves have a serious numbing effect and are frequently used in dental work INSIDE a filling to help with nerve sensitivity. You should not use Clove Oil frequently in are particular place of your body because, if say you use it on a bad knee regularly, eventually the skin and some muscles just inside the skin can begin to loose some of their feeling. The cloves oil can deaden the nerves permanantly. In theory - smoking these would eventually numb your throat and mouth to the point that you would not notice a cavity beginning to hurt, a sore beginning from the tobacco, or a sore early enough to catch an infection or cancer and safely treat it. I guess I would caution that you not use them frequently and that even when you do use them you visually examine your mouth and throat to prevent anything possibly getting out of hand. there's my 2 cents __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

09-07-2005, 11:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	Disclaimer, Ive never used them, only heard of them from friends. From what I hear, they taste great, but are even worse for you than cigarettes. Which are generally worse for you than drinking, so long as you arent going out and getting trashed frequently. I'd say the same thing I say about tobacco: fine when used in careful moderation, you only live once, but dont make anything resembling a habit of it. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato Last edited by sailor; 09-07-2005 at 11:56 AM..

09-09-2005, 08:14 AM	#13 (permalink)
vanblah Junkie	Back in my goth days (mid-late 80's) EVERYBODY smoked cloves. The entire club smelled like a cheap Thanksgiving ham. We're all still alive ... but that's only been 20 years; hardly a lifetime of smoking. You'll probably get tired of cloves long before any real harm is done ... just don't move on to "regular" cigarettes. Your lungs will heal if you're able to stop smoking right now. There was a brand of perfumed cigarettes back then too ... they were pink with gold filters. They may still be around. They were wretched smelling ... I can't imagine what horrible toxins they put into your lungs. The girl that smoked them is still alive and cancer-free (as far as we know). She doesn't smoke anything anymore though. Last edited by vanblah; 09-09-2005 at 08:16 AM..

09-18-2005, 03:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
MojoRisin Crazy Location: Just got into town about an hour ago.	What sort of 'high' do you get from smoking cloves? __________________ Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

09-07-2005, 09:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	This must be some kind of new street thing the kids are all into these days? - What's a clove, or a black? Some of us old folk have been around a bit you know, but you're going to have to translate for those of us who aren't keeping up with the Gangstas if you want our help.

09-07-2005, 09:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
dalnet22 Crazy	I thought it was pretty common. They're called Djarum Blacks, and they look like cigarettes. Here's a picture of the box: http://faucetscreen.com/images/topics/black.gif

09-07-2005, 09:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	Wow, looks like they've been around for a while - I just never heard of them before - A little poking around turned up this link that might be worth reading: http://members.aol.com/beatnik/cloves/main.htm

09-07-2005, 11:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
Stare At The Sun Eh? Location: Somewhere over the rainbow	They are, from what i've heard 5x as bad as normal cig's and if you smoke a lot of them(2 packs a day like) they can actually make your lungs bleed. A pack or so a week,and you'll be AOK. Besides, they are great convo starters, and taste great.

09-07-2005, 08:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Inhaling almost any smoke is bad for you on some level. I can't think of any smoke that's exactly good. All smoke contains combustion products which are toxic to a greater or lesser degree. That said: clove cigarettes are more popular in Asia, and they have been brought to this country before. In the '80s, a friend of mine managed a cigarette warehouse in San Francisco for a Malaysian company that was attempting to popularize clove cigarettes in the U.S.. It didn't really catch on; but since then, it has been possible to get clove cigarettes in this country if you really wanted to.

09-08-2005, 07:04 AM	#11 (permalink)
skinnymofo Addict ed to smack Location: Seattle	cloves are fucking great. i love the sweet taste on my lips afterwords. as for which is worse... id say pick your poison. you are either killing your lungs or killing your liver. and chances are, if you are drinking, and have smokes, your going to be doing both at the same time. so really, its almost a moot question no?

09-09-2005, 07:04 AM	#12 (permalink)
Blaise Upright Location: UK	You can't compare them to say which is worse. Short term, alcohol is often worse- no one ever had one cigarette too many and got in a fight, had a one night stand they regret, tried to drive and killed other people.. but long term, sensible drinking in moderation is probably less likely to affect your health than smoking, and you won't damage other people through secondhand effects. Cloves don't just look like cigarettes, they ARE cigarettes and they have the same effect on your health, sometimes worse. Though djarum blacks do have a filter at least, which many cloves and flavoured cigarettes don't

09-18-2005, 12:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
Locke00000 Tilted	I never smoked, and my first introduction was with cloves. I smoked solely cloves for about 4 months. They are great conversation starters when smoking with a group (ie. what are you smoking..blabla..what do you prefer..blabla). Sooner or later, you will realize that 7 bucks a pack is a bit rediculous. You will start smoking regular cigarettes, and then you will be in the same camp as everyone who "at one time" smoked cloves. They just don't seem the same when I go back to them. They can almost give me a headache now, but I still smoke them ocassionally for "old times sake". I love em, but realize that they are more of a "gateway" into smoking than regular cigarettes, simply because you will notice the difference in price almost immedietly once you stop smoking cloves. I enjoy them, and can't really give you any medical advice...but think about it...

09-18-2005, 06:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	I like to smoke a Black and Mild every once in a while. Swisher Sweets are good as well. EDIT: usually when I am drunk as fuck. __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/ Last edited by Carn; 09-18-2005 at 06:13 PM..