soma

Because I'm a frugal person (my favorite euphemism for cheap bastard), I'd say I try to get away with not having to pay for as much as possible. Sometimes that requires doing a bit of mooching here and there. Recently, I read a post here on the TFP which contained the following: "friends don't mooch". After reading this, I felt a sudden sense of guilt for my mooching ways. I tried to remember all of my friends I've mooched from and have paid them back. That has been all well and good and I think I have changed a bit for the better.

My reason for this thread is to have a discussion about the differences between mooching and sharing. How can you tell the difference between mooching and sharing? Do you mooch from your friends? Do your friends mooch from you? Do you consider mooching a socially acceptable practice?

braisler

I think that mooching implies that you are taking something without any reciprocation. If you are always going over to your friend's house empty handed to watch a movie and drink their beer and eat their food, then you are at risk of being a mooch. But if you are coming over with some chips and salsa, while another friend brings the beer, and the host has rented a movie, then you are all sharing a movie with snacks at home as a less expensive alternative to going out for a movie and a beer.

That doesn't mean that you should always feel obligated to bring something whenever you get together with friends, but you should ask if they want you to pick something up on the way over. Also, you should play the host from time to time as well. It is all about reciprocity. If you don't ever give back, then your friends might have cause to resent you.

All of the above also assumes that you and your friends are all on an equal financial footing. I have been in the situation of being employeed while some of my friends were graduate students. I would happily host my friends at my place with food and drink provided knowing that I was able to do this more comfortably than they could. If you are close with people, they will understand that you don't have the cash to spring for premium beer or whatever.

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maleficent

I'm the person responsible for the quote... I hate it when my words come back to haunt me...

Up til a few years ago, I lived in Manhattan, in several places in Manhattan, and it never failed, every few weeks, I'd get a phone call from someone who was coming into NYC and needed a place to stay, could they stay on my couch. Now that meant, eating the food in my fridge, watching my cable, using my air conditioning, hot water and everything else in my apartment.

That person got a nice inexpensive vacation, and ok, they had to put up with me, which is no easy task, but my life got put on hold while they stayed, because I might just have to entertain.

if I was lucky, I might get a dinner out of it... Most of these people I haven't talked to since i moved out of the city... Hotel Maleficent closed, so my usefulness was gone.

I would never impose on someone else when I am elsewhere -- hotels exist for a reason.

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amonkie

I take mooching to be repeatedly and intentionally getting things from someone else that you have no intention to pay back in some fashion. Sharing on the other hand, might mean you take the check this time, and I'll grab it next time.

I do not mooch - in most cases, I can tend to be a little soft about people mooching from me. However, there is a line between helping someone out and being taken advantage of. To that extent, I don't loan money and expect to be paid back - it's either a gift or I don't do it at all.

As a socially acceptable practice, mooching does not have a continual welcomed place, in my eyes. Those who do so often have to switch to others after a time, because very few people I know would consider putting up with it for any extended length of time.

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frogza

Mooching is consistently being the recipient and promoter of sharing. There is nothing wrong with getting something from friends, as long as you keep in mind that friendship is both giving and taking.

kurty[B]

When I didn't have a place last summer I spent my nights crashing on multiple friends' couches. I would try and bring beer, or food to let them nkow I appreciated the help, and would also try and stay at various friends' places and try not to impose as much as possible (or on nice summer nights just sleep in the back of my truck; glad my work has showers!!). One of my friends even just gave me the key to his house and said I could stop by anytime I liked to crash. I am forever indebted to him, and just hope i can be as kind to him and my other friends in their times of need.

Charlatan

This always comes up in the summer... those of us in the city who have cottages occasioanlly invite people who do not have them up for a weekend.

Visitors are welcome but learn the etiquette: ask if you can bring something (don't just bring something because there will always be something to bring that is specific - nothing worse than when all the guests bring buns and there is no meat), offer to do the dishes and clean... everytime. You are a guest, staying for free... make yourself useful.

I find that it is also partly the host's job to lay out the ground rules (i.e. tell guests what to bring rather than wait for them to ask) it makes light of what can be an awkward situation for some.

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avernus

I agree with Charlatan, always offer to do the washing up! Whenever my friends come over for supper I make them my kitchen slave and get them to tidy up after me/top and tail the beans/top up my glass.

I love socialising, having friends round for supper is the best way in my opinion and I try to make it a regular occasion. Only the other day I made a meal for 5 friends, it was great, we had wine, dessert, nibbles - very social. However I realised that, apart from one of my them, I had never been invited round for supper once. So next time I told them to bring more booze and/or stump up some cash. We're all poor students and to enable a nice social event like this we all need to chip in, we have to be realistic. One of these people didn't like the idea so he doesn't come round anymore, his loss.

StanT

I live up in the mountains near Boulder, CO. Nice location for visiting Rocky Mountain National Park. Adequate location for skiing. While I don't mind houseguests short term, I really can't take off work to be a tour guide at a moments notice. It's really amazing how many old "friends" crawled out of the woodwork when I moved out here. It's even more curious how they only come to see me during the summer or ski season.

If you come for a visit, remember that I have a real life that exists here. It isn't a vacation for me.

snowy

My friends and I have a very clear philosophy when it comes to sharing--it's all karma. I take you out to dinner now, you'll take me out to dinner later, we'll be square. I buy you beer now, you pay me/buy me food/whatever later. I buy you a concert ticket now because you can't afford it--well, when you get that job with Wells Fargo you better take me to see Floater. For the most part, we stick to these principles pretty well.

lindseylatch and I like to go out to eat together--so I pick up the tab one time, she the next. It works out quite well.

This summer I took a lot of people out to the bars as I was making good money at my job. When school was back in session and I didn't have as much cash to spread around, that all came back--all my friends had money from work-study and could afford to take me out to the bars.

I believe in balance.

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guthmund

^^^ Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it.

There are certainly lines to be crossed, but to define them....well, mooching is like obscenity, 'I know it when I see it.'

I once let a fellow sleep on my couch for a couple of months because he didn't have a job and had nowhere to go. It didn't bother me in the least. This guy had nothing and I did, so, I shared.

Once I got him a job and he started making money, he continued to sleep on my couch despite the fact that he had couple of really big paychecks in his pocket (I know. I did the payroll) This guy had money as did I, but he continued to abuse my good will, so, he was mooching.

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Rodney

A lot of time mooching is just laziness and thougtlessness and immaturity. Mooches will do it until you call them on it; then they either leave to mooch elsewhere (no loss) or straighten out, not without some bitching. But that's their problem.

Back in college, several of us shared an apartment, and for a while we shared groceries. But one guy would eat much more than his share -- of the good stuff, anyway. He'd sit down with a pound block of swiss cheese and eat it all while watching a half-hour sitcom.

So we stopped sharing groceries. But he'd _still_ eat other people's groceries, including mine. When I confronted him with it, here was his logic:

1)I don't remember buying it
2)But I _could_ have bought it
3)So I ate it (helpless shrug and goofy grin)

So I went out and bought a pack of those little round white Avery labels and stuck one on every piece of food I owed, with my name on it -- every egg, every tomato, every pack of cheese, every fruit, every can. Two hours later, he appeared in my doorway, complaining, pissed at hell. But it all boiled down to this -- he was pissed because I wouldn't let him pretend he wasn't mooching anymore.

darkangel

That's what worked for me. I'm still sort of young so I haven't had big experiences like some stated here with people coming to stay with other people.. but back in high school I had this one friend who actually expected me to bring her things, and her reasoning was because we were friends and that's what friends do. It rotated around cigarettes. At first I would bring enough for both of us because I had cash flow, and didn't want to have one during lunch and have her not have any. I was just a nice person. A few times she would only show up at school solely for the cigarettes I had brought for her. One time I said no, it's costing me too much money to support your habit for 2 years, she got insanely mad at me, took me to "Go f*ck myself" and then left for awhile. So I figured, fine, I don't need your friendship anyway.

Needless to say, we're still friends today. Although we only see eachother once every few months, and she has stopped the mooching. (Although she borrowed one of my books months ago, promised she would return it the next day, and still hasn't. And it's a Stephen King book, and I'm very protective about those.)

My older brother also mooches off my parents. He's 22, lives at home, has a good job, yet he doesn't feel the need to help my parents out with bills or work around the house. My parents don't mind us living here, as long as we do contribute to the household. My parents are constantly going broke with bills, and he's rolling in money and doesn't feel the need to help out a little. He hasn't gotten the "bitching" yet sort to speak, so he's currently still doing it. He needs to move out and find out what the real world is like. But I'm probably going off topic..

Mooching and mooching from one side only is not a friendship, from my point of view anyway with my experiences.

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BigBen

Hey, there is always another side to the story, so can I have a second to tell what happens when the pendulum swings to the other side?

My best buddy and I would go for beers, and I picked up the cheque. Not that he was poor and I was rich, more like I was loaded and wanted to pay the whole thing. He got really nervous and frustrated.

I then noticed that when we would do the couple thing (me and wife, him and girlfriend) that when the cheque would come they would go dutch.

He was absolutely crazy when it came to sharing with him, and I eventually called him on it: "Dude, what is the big deal? You and I make the same money, we know each other like brothers, we WORK at the same place, why not take turns with the bill once in a while?"

"I wasn't raised that way. I can't take something that I didn't pay for..."

And now, although awkward sometimes (try splitting a 5 hour beer tab when I drink approximately 1.57904 times as fast as he does) I have come to accept it.

We went camping last summer and he had the communal costs split down to the quarter. I laughed, he laughed, I paid him, and then we had a good time.

Sometimes I would just like to take him out for the most expensive meal in town and then tell him it's on me. I think he would stroke out.

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Charlatan

Good addition Ben... yes, I have been there too.

Sometimes it is just as important to be able to take someone's gift. When I am flush, I like to treat my firends who are not...


But as onesnoyowl points out... it is karmic. When I am not flowing in $$ they occasionally are and I am more than happy to have them buy me a pint.

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- Old Man Luedecke

martinguerre

there are some friends i keep accounts with, some i don't.

i'm in school...and everyone is not rich, but some are not richer than others. i do my best to be generous and pick up tabs once in a while. i like to see reciprocation, but it doesn't have to be to scale. if i'm okay with picking up a tab at a sitdown resturant, and that person is a little cash strapped, i'm fine with them getting me a burger or beer.

it's just the gestures of mutuality...

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Seeker

I always worry that I'll be the moocher so I can understand when people arrange things as BigBen931 has explained. That way no one will ever worry about keeping tabs or be left wondering if thier contribution weighs up evenly.

That being said, I am usually the one that people believe to be 'not as well off', I am a single mum and have been for 12 years, so they all expect I do it tough. I probably do, but for all the other single parents out there, and probably to some extent, some two parent families, I do pretty well and sometimes better than others IMO (budget, it's all about the budget ). I live well for my means and there are things that I go without but if it's important to me, I can always make it happen somehow.

Weather my worth through my skills or friendship makes up for a $ amount I'll never know for certain... but it's something I make a conscious effort toward, to make sure I'm not a moocher

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cierah

On of my greatest fears is being thought of as a mooch and I therefore, will hardly ever take anything from anyone. I won't even take a stick of gum from you unless I know you very well. I always feel as though I owe them something in return even when logically I know it's not a big deal. It sorta takes away from my independence in a way. I am usually quick to offer you whatever I have I just won't take anything in return.

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ranger

my best friend and i take turns. we've known each other since like 6th grade. i pay for movies he pays for snacks/dinner, next time we switch.

as long as we keep it even we're both cool. i think that's how it should work for everyone.

:lights candle and assumes lotus posistion: "world needs balance, it does, young padawan"

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Demeter

I remember times when we would be in financial ruins (mostly because of my then-husbands drinking/drug abuse) and we would be staying with his parents in order to get back on top of things (Yes - I finally got smart about 7 years ago and left).

I never had much money to contribute, and I scrubbed their home down from top to bottom many, many times, prepared many, many meals for them (usually while husband sat on ass) and even helped them with renovation projects. To this day I would defend I payed my way. And I would never, ever want to go through that again.

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