Squishor

I don't know what to do - one of my cats seems to be losing all his hair, starting at the head and now descending down to the shoulders. He also has a bit of a balding patch at the base of his tail.

We took him to the vet and they tested him for this and that, said it could be mites or ringworm...but he tested negative for ringworm, and the mite medication we've been putting on him is doing nothing. Now my other cat has a bald patch at the base of her tail too!

They do have some fleas, although we put Advantage on them they always come back. We've been reasonably consistent about this because the other cat gets skin irritations if she has many fleas.

They haven't been on a consistent type of cat food, and the problem doesn't seem to coincide with any particular food change. We were feeding them bulk organic dry food from the health food store for a long time, until they decided they didn't like it anymore. Then we went through kind of a "junk food" period - Whiskas, Chef's Blend, Purina, Friskies, etc., all in turn until they got tired of them. This lasted several months. When the hair loss started a couple of months ago they got put on better food - first a bag of Purina One, and then Nutro Natural Choice Complete Care since then. Thank god they like that and will eat it!

Throughout all of this, they have also had the occasional can of canned food - either "natural" food such as Nature's Kitty or Natural Value, or something from the grocery store like 9 Lives or Friskies. They get a can about once every week or two. They also get frequent, small amounts of table scraps like fish, beef or chicken. I often cook up the cats' meat scraps separately without any seasonings for them.

We had thought maybe it was an allergy until the other cat also started losing fur...now we are really at a loss. We're taking them back to the vet again but it's frustrating because the initial visit cost $230 with no helpful results, although it was good to learn that it's not ringworm. I guess that's the one potential cause that would have been transmissable to us.

Here's Cassius, back when he had all his fur:



He has a light undercoat which shows through, but you can see his coat is full and glossy.

And now:





The hair loss is accompanied by some flaky skin and reddish, irritated-looking patches, although not too many.

The vet basically didn't have much in the way of suggestions - anyone here seen anything like this before? Any ideas??

amonkie

Do you think maybe your cats are stressed out? I'm not a vet, nor do I have any cats, but I have spent a lot of time with birds, and one of the first tell tale signs of stress is they start losing their feathers. That many changes to a diet would be more than enough to create some havoc, and maybe the balding is their body's way of reacting. Are this strictly indoor cats? A very dry environment could be causing the flaking, something very prone when it is winter, as the heater dries up air significantly.

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Squishor

I don't know...the food changes were in response to their finicky preferences. Stress does sound like a good idea, but I'm not so sure it could really account for this much hair loss. It's actually more marked than you can really see in the pictures. I know what you're saying about the birds though.

They do go outside, and although Cassius in particular does spend a lot of time lying on the heater (as you can see), all cats will do that and I've never seen anything like this before.

Manuel Hong

Hmmm, any natural vets in your area? I know this sounds hokey, but if you want to PM me I can give you the name and # of a world renouned animal communicator. She can consult over the phone and it's not much $. It may help if the problem is emotional. (have there been any recent changes in the household?) I'm a rational person and I have found irrefutable evidence to support her methods.

I would say adding omega fatty acids like fish or flax oil to their diets might help, but you say there is redness and irritation/inflammation also, which indicates an acute condition, possibly exacerbated by or caused by a chronic nutritional deficiency. In solving the problem, you must resolve the acute aspect of the problem first and bring down the inflammation. I do know of very effective, food-based natural salves to treat this sort of condition in humans, but cats can be funny with their allergies to some human foods, so I don't recommend them without consulting my natural vet/herbalist. I can also give you her #, but I live in CT, so I don't know how much good that would do...
The ingedients in the particular salve I'm thinking of are: sesame oil, beeswax, extracts of rehmannia, arnebia, coptis, safflower, tang kuei, peach pit and licorice. This cools the surface, circulates blood, reduces inflammation, and is anti-baterial and anti-microbial. It's also very natural...but may be harmful to cats if they lick it...I'm not sure. My area of expertise is people not pets. I'll gladly help if I can.

__________________
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shakran

regarding food for animals, they need a consistant diet. They're not like people, where we can have a different food 3 times a day and do just fine on it. Their food needs to stay the same, and if you DO change it you need to do it slowly by mixing the new food in with the old slowly until you gradually get to where it's all new food.

Picky eater animals are generally not too hard to deal with. If they're really picky eaters, then they'll get over it if they don't have any other options. I may not like broccoli very much but if that's all I can eat I'll eventually start eating it.


However, I find it interesting that the animals were on one food for such a long time and then suddenly stopped eating it, and it seems that shortly thereafter they started losing their hair. Could the two be related? If your vet can't solve this, you need to find another vet for a 2nd opinion.

Squishor

Manuel Hong - I'll see if there's a natural vet in my area. Years ago one came to my house and cured my cat Henry, who had gone off his food and truly appeared to be dying. The regular vets couldn't figure out what the problem was, but this guy gave him some homeopathic pills and he was better within a couple of days. Maybe something topical could help, but they would surely lick it off so I'm not so sure about that. There hasn't been anything stressful recently that could have caused this, as far as I know. The other cat went through a broken hip several months ago and that was far more stressful, but nobody lost any fur over it.

shakran - I do usually keep my cats' diets more consistent but there has been some variation in the past, and I've had cats all my life but have never seen anything like this. Our theory about the food they were on was that, maybe since it was a natural cat food, it had no preservatives in it and went bad. We thought perhaps we had encountered a bad batch and tried it again a few times later but they still wouldn't touch it, even after a couple of days of literally no eating (I thought too that if they got hungry enough they'd get over it and just eat). Anyhow we're going to keep them on the Nutro unless something in that proves to be contributing to the problem. However, I actually rather doubt that the food is the cause - I just described it because I'm at such a loss.

I really appreciate the suggestions because it gets me thinking, thanks.

shakran

actually i meant perhaps the problem put them off their food AND caused the hair loss. The food might be a second symptom.

Squishor

Hmm, that's an interesting and new perspective...I'll ponder it, thanks. The only thing is there was the "junk food" period of several months after they suddenly started refusing to eat the natural food.

My boyfriend was wondering if Cassius could have actually gotten poisoned by something he ate somehow, being kind of dumb and all. I know usually animals won't eat something dangerous, but there are the exceptions, antifreeze and so on. I don't know if hair loss would be one of the symptoms.

shakran

hey, just found this. It might help.

Check the second disease in the chart especially (alopecia areata)

http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=195

Squishor

Hey, thanks for the link, that looks like a pretty good list! Alopecia areata certainly looks like a possible culprit, although one thing we've noticed is that he does seem to be scratching more and the description says "no itching" so I dunno... I'm going to study that list and see if I can eliminate possibilities systematically. I might even print out that list and take it with me to the vet so we can go over it together. On another board where I posted the same question everybody's saying "flea allergy dermatitis" but the thing is, the mite medication we have him on is also supposed to kill fleas. One thing I've noticed with this is that the hair loss is mostly confined to the head and shoulders area - you can even see a distinct line around his shouders of the hair loss area, like a little ruff. Unfortunately it's moving downward...

*Nikki*

Have you had his thyroid level tested??

Squishor

No... I checked out that link from shakran, actualy printed it out and went through it, marking each condition according to its likelihood (considering all his symptoms, history, etc.). Hyperthyroidism is in the "?" category so we will definitely be checking into this when he visits the vet next. I think I'll being the list so we can go over it together.

One thing I'm seeing is that he has a fair amount of dandruff as well. Do you know if hyperthyroid would cause this?

mew

I’m not exactly a vet, but I'm a vet technician(like a nurse), but I hope I can help you as best as I can.

Its great your vet took some skinscrapes/tapetests for ringworm and mites, but what I think your vet should at least suggest to run some blood tests. I know it sounds drastic, and is expensive, but if you want to narrow down what your pets have, then I would do it. They might have to send out some blood to a lab who run specific tests-depends what your vet recommends.
Do they pull out their own hair? Or does it come out on its own? Do they scratch to make their skin red and itchy? If you dont know, watch them more closely. Their condition of flaky skin and reddish, irritated-looking patches could be due to a number of things..

1.Diet: Changing foods so drastically can affect animals-usually does, some owners have to gradually mix their current food with new food until they fully switched to the new foods. Its good you sticked to better foods. I suggest Nutro over Purina. Though MediCal , Hills are much higher quality, and specifies a pets special diet. You can get them only at the vets. Yes, I know theyre really expensive. So, just first find out what your pets have, and your vet will recommend a good diet. Stay away from generic foods, cause they have crappy stuff I dont want to get into, and lack nutrients your pets should get. I know its tempting to feed them people food, but scrap foods isn’t good to feed them. Especially fish. Ignore all the clichés of cats eating fish and whatnot, but the truth is they don’t need it-it can cause nutritional deficiencies (includes symptoms like making the fur dry and course). Read this article, its really good, and pay special attention to the end paragraph in the summary.

2. Allergies : Also, if you introduced something new into the house, like a carpet or something, it can cause allergic reactions. My sisters cat was allergic to Febreeze, she lost a bit of fur due to it. Your cats could even be allergic to the weather. We have some at work allergic to grass, oatmeal, dust, even people dander, you name it- pets can have it.

3. Stress: Like other people said, new changes freak pets out. Even the slightest, change of furniture can do it. Finicky? Yes, but it happens.

4. I did some research, and your pets if they are actual litter mates ( born to the same mother), they could have hypothyroidism[/COLOR].html]Hypothyroidism. Its not common, but its not uncommon for felines to get. You would have to send their blood out for testing though. It’s a thyroidal problem, and I’d definitely ask your Dr about it.

5. On another note, if your cats do go outside, or you have at least one pet (even a dog) that goes outside, and comes back with something everyone else will get it. Which means that they are basically going outside themselves. Pets are great at sharing. Advantage will not do the job alone. There are worms your pets can get, and Advantage only does fleas. You leave them to hook, roundworms, even ear mites..whathave-you. I’d definetly recommend Revolution, which does a lot more.

Sorry for the essay, but I wanted to cover as much as I could. Hope this really helps, and let me/us know how it goes, Ok? Oh, and if your Dr. shows no real interest in helping you with your pets-Go somewhere else. You are only as good as the help your getting.
Good luck, hun!

Squishor

Thank you, mew, for your response! You brought up a lot of good points. I don't think they did any blood tests when he last went to the vet - I wasn't there though (boyfriend was) so I'm not 100% sure. I'll go along next time. I really appreciate your taking the time to share your knowledge, and I'll provide some responses in hopes that it'll be productive.

I'm not quite sure that the hair is coming out on its own. He does seem to be spending a little more time scratching and licking than usual. I just went and pulled on his hair a bit and although a few strands came out, it's not like it's coming out in clumps or anything. My boyfriend just said that he noticed the "striped" look on his forehead as early as late last fall, so I guess maybe this has been going on for some time now. It's a pretty gradual process.

It could be that the dietary changes weren't good for them. They are now on a steady diet of Nutro so we'll see how that goes. There hasn't been any improvement yet but I do know that cat hair tends to grow in pretty slowly, from when I've had cats shaved for surgery before. I tend to doubt that the food is a factor in this because when we first met Cassius he was a feral cat living under our house, so obviously did not have a regular diet - his coat was dull and nasty back then but he did have all his hair. As for the people food scraps, it's always been my understanding that the warnings against those mostly pertain to feeding them meat or fish as their main nutritional source, since they don't get complete nutrition from meat alone. What my cats get is a couple of bites of meat or fish as a treat when we have it for dinner. Reading the article you linked to, I don't think my cats are at much from what we have been giving them, since the article is talking about feeding fish, etc., as a staple food.

As for allergies, there has been nothing new introduced into the household but I know allergies can develop out of the blue as well. It seems like that might be pretty hard to track down!

I don't see stress as a factor. Not only have there not been any real changes, but Cassius is an extremely mellow cat. Since we took him in and he decided to live the domesticated life, pretty much he does as little as possible and acts like he's "retired." The other one, on the other hand, is very high-strung.

The cats are not litter mates - Heidi (the other one) came from the pound and Cassius came from under the house. Heidi was a stray too and has her own issues but is not a relative. However, we're not all that convinced that she actually has the same problem going on. Her hair loss is quite minor so far and doesn't seem to involve the same skin trouble. No flakiness, red patches, etc. However, they do both seem to have the same pattern of a layer of short hair left over. They are not so much going literally bald as they are going very short-haired, if that makes any sense. The fur that remains is rather dry and doesn't feel healthy.

Cassius has been on Revolution for the past month (that's what the vet gave him) and the problem doesn't seem to be getting any better.

We will be able to take Cassius back to the vet this coming week, so we'll see what happens then I guess. Thanks again for the input and let me know if what I've described brings any flashes of insight.

mew

I talked to a few of the Dr's at my work, and since you mentioned that both of them have the same symptoms, and that yes, they both are licking and scratching more than before, they possibly do have either ringworm or mites. I know they were already tested, but the Dr's told me that they might not have gotten good enough samples. They were pretty quick to reply mites or ringworms after all the symptoms I described them. Ask your Dr. if they think it a good idea to recheck. Ringworm takes a few weeks (2 I believe) to culture and confirm a +/- . And mites..well, make sure your Dr takes a lot of samples (skin scrapings), from different areas of their body. Demodex are ticky little buggers as they tend to live in the follicles of the hair, so they have to get deep samples. Cheyletiella is also another one to look out for.

Squishor

And would these Demodex and Cheyletiella resist a series of treatments with Revolution?

*Nikki*

Revolution does not treat mange (Demodex) in cats see http://www.revolution4cats.com/displ...ies=FL&sec=050.

I would definately still do a blood test for the thyroid issue. I am interested to know what this turns out to be.

Also Demodex tends to leave red irritated sores see http://users.dslextreme.com/~wolfsto....html#Symptoms
I would be really surprised if that is what it was.

I am only a vet tech but I am leaning towards the thyroid issue.

Squishor

An update for you all -

We took Cassius back to the vet on Saturday. The vet says we can pretty much rule out parasites or fungus at this point. Our next step would be to do skin biopsies and/or bloodwork (to rule out hyperthyroid, along with taking an overall look) but before doing that, she suggested that we try steroid injections to see if he responds. If he did, that would mean that we're pretty much dealing with an allergy. She also suggested that we try him on a completely different, specialty food with ingredients he's never had before.

So we are feeding him duck and rice pellets now, and we went ahead with the steroid injection. For the first 24 hours or so after that he was very down, obviously wasn't feeling well, wouldn't eat and wouldn't get off the heater except to go pee. But then, he perked up and is now acting all lively and happy about life. We hadn't quite realized it, I guess because the change was so gradual, but he had been really acting sluggish and depressed. Now he's back to his former self, taking swats at us when we walk by, running around in the courtyard acting like a maniac, even when he's just sitting there he seems much perkier. It wasn't until we saw him doing all this that we kind of went, "Oh yeah, he used to do all that stuff and he hasn't been." He also chased a big puffy orange tomcat out of the yard the other night - must be the steroids.

So we're very encouraged that he seems to feel so much better, even though he's still bald. I guess that means he's got some sort of allergy? The big question now, is to what, of course.

We're also keeping a close eye on him in case he starts pumping iron and decides to run for governor...

Rodney

Glad he's feeling better. We once had a cat lose his entire outer coat of fur; nothing left but the downy undercoat. He changed color from black (outer fur color) to gray-white (undercoat color) in two months, stayed that way a while, and then regrew his outer coat. We never figured out what was going on, but he always had been borderline hyperthyroid.

Squishor

Wow Rodney, that actually sounds a lot like what's going on with Cassius. Black fur, greyish-white undercoat, short layer of fur left, the whole bit!

When I first saw you had responded to this thread I thought you were going to say, "Hey I know that cat, I've seen him downtown!"

Rodney

He's not the one who used to hang out in front of the Pipeline head shop, is he? :-)

Well, I wish I could tell you more about what happened with our old cat. We took him to vets (not real great vets), and they poked and prodded and came up with nothing. He didn't otherwise act much differently than normal. And eventually the outer coat came back.

Squishor

No, but awful close! I dare not say more for fear of revealing my precise location to the Internet at large...

mew

Hey, Im glad to hear that everythings working out great. Let us know if you've found their allergic culprit!

Manuel Hong

I'm really glad the puss is feeling better!! Keep us posted!

__________________
Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

Squishor

An update for those who showed some interest:

Cassius seemed to like the steroids energy-wise, but his hair situation got no better. He also is apparently not responding to the change in diet. So we took him back to the vet for the next step. We discussed our options and decided to go with a skin biopsy. Well, the vet called and says the preliminary results look like he has an auto-immune disease. This is kind of...good news and bad news I guess. Mostly bad news, in my opinion, since there doesn't seem to be any cure for this. I haven't done the research yet though. Poor Cassius is still balding, except now with shaved areas and bright pink stitches. And he's scratching himself so much that he's getting all these scabs and stuff...

Anyone have experience with this?

pattycakes

my 1 cat keeps scratching and licking his fur off....so i kinda know what you mean

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thalakos315

something like this happend to my cat, she ended up having feline leukemia

something like this also happend to my dog, she ended up developing a flea allergy.. wasn't pretty

we ended up having to have the cat put down. while a friend took the dog for a while, and the problem cleared up there. they fell in love with her, and her problem didn't seem to bother her with them, so she ended up moving in for good :/

have you thought it might be an allergy to the flea medication you've been using? it looks like that balding spot on your kitty, is the same spot most people apply those "drop on" flea meds to