|
View Poll Results: What do you think of NZ's new antismoking law? | |||
I don't smoke, and I think it's a good idea | 79 | 61.72% | |
I don't smoke, and I don't think it's a good idea | 18 | 14.06% | |
I don't smoke, and I couldn't care less | 5 | 3.91% | |
I smoke, and I think it's a good idea | 6 | 4.69% | |
I smoke, and I don't think it's a good idea | 16 | 12.50% | |
I smoke, and I couldn't care less | 4 | 3.13% | |
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools |
12-27-2004, 09:17 AM | #81 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
Yeah, lets keep the smokers out of the bars. They make the place unpleasant. And you know what, lets keep the black people out too, they really make the place unpleasant.
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
12-27-2004, 09:47 AM | #82 (permalink) |
Professional Loafer
Location: texas
|
California is much the same way. Very strict smoking laws. I heard a story where an owner of a company was in his office smoking. One of the employees was offended by the smoke, even after he went outside to smoke. He was fined heavily by the state for breaking the law.
I agree with no smoking in public places as I can't stand the smell and have never tried a cigarette. I also have had two grandparents die from cancer due to prolonged smoking.
__________________
"You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane." |
12-27-2004, 10:24 AM | #83 (permalink) | |
it's jam
Location: Lowerainland BC
|
Quote:
You might as well accept it, because this is the way it's gonna be.
__________________
nice line eh? |
|
12-27-2004, 11:04 AM | #84 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
|
|
12-27-2004, 11:09 AM | #85 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
Children are bad for my health. Besides being terrible carriers of disease due to poor hygeine, the children of developed nations are responsible for the severe overpopulation problems we now face. Children cause pollution, they consume natural resources, and they exploit children of third world nations. That their parents do this by proxy for their benefit does not absolve them of their share of guilt.
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
12-27-2004, 11:19 AM | #86 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
Your critique of the global effects of childrearing can easily be extended to everyone in the developed world- you consume natural resources and exploit children of third world nations. This is a critique of humanity in general, not children. You're still stretching if you think any of this has anything significant to do with banning smoking in public places. |
|
12-27-2004, 01:09 PM | #87 (permalink) |
Submit to me, you know you want to
Location: Lilburn, Ga
|
Screaming in children, children that are the product of parents that dont believe they should make them behave in public etc ARE bad for my health....they give me horrible headaches....the same kind some non smokers claim to get if they are around cigarette smoke
__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!! |
12-27-2004, 01:12 PM | #88 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
|
|
12-27-2004, 01:16 PM | #89 (permalink) |
Submit to me, you know you want to
Location: Lilburn, Ga
|
doesnt matter whether its terminal or not....it affects my life and those around me for the amount of time that Im a total bitch because my head hurts
your original statement made no mention of terminality, it simply said they werent bad for my health....which is not always true
__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!! |
12-27-2004, 01:25 PM | #90 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
|
|
12-27-2004, 01:34 PM | #91 (permalink) | |
Submit to me, you know you want to
Location: Lilburn, Ga
|
filterton...Im SO sorry.... there is a misunderstanding here.....I was replying to this (as were a few others)
Quote:
__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!! |
|
12-27-2004, 02:02 PM | #92 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
|
|
12-27-2004, 02:58 PM | #93 (permalink) | ||
Insane
Location: New Zealand
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
ignorance really is bliss. |
||
12-27-2004, 04:27 PM | #94 (permalink) | |
it's jam
Location: Lowerainland BC
|
Quote:
I'm in no way suggesting that you not smoke, just that when you do smoke, you keep it to your self....that's it.
__________________
nice line eh? |
|
12-28-2004, 06:13 AM | #95 (permalink) | ||
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
And enough with the second hand smoke nonsense. Sitting next to a smoker will not kill you, let alone give you a terminal disease! You need to be exposed to smoke long term and in large quantities for it to affect you, and even then its iffy. http://www.junkscience.com/news/euwsjets.htm Maybe the bar employees have a case, but if they don't want to work in a hazardous environment then maybe they should leave the bar and apply for a job at that nice coffee shop down the street. Why won't they? Because the coffee shop is for lamers who don't tip. Bar patrons are drunk happy people who tip well. It's a simple economics game. Do you want to outlaw all hazardous activities? Why not focus on outlawing war and religion, the biggest contributors to human death and misery of all time. What non-smokers are really objecting to is the fact that smokers are enjoying themselves in a way the non-smokers can't participate in. They get jealous and angry and act out. Just accept that you aren't nearly as cool as smokers and be done with it.
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
||
12-28-2004, 08:32 AM | #96 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: my cubicle
|
we recently passed a law similar to this in columbus ohio. im very glad. im a non smoker, and i absolutely can not stand smoke at all. im glad ill be able to go out to bars and clubs and not come home smelling like shit. without getting into too much of a flame war - i know its sort of contradictory to go to a bar and not want to kill myself, since im drinking myself stupid, but, i really really dont want lung cancer in 20 years. i also work at a service garage, and i get a healty dose of diesel and its related combustion byproducts every day, and i get really pissed about that too.
|
12-28-2004, 09:01 AM | #97 (permalink) | |||||
Crazy
Location: Columbus, OH
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
* Secondhand Smoke causes about 3,000 deaths each year from lung cancer in people who don´t smoke. * Secondhand Smoke causes irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat. * Secondhand Smoke can also irritate the lungs, leading to coughing, excessive phlegm and chest discomfort. * Secondhand Smoke has been linked with the onset of chest pain may affect the heart, according to some studies. * Children who breathe Secondhand Smoke are more likely to suffer from pneumonia, bronchitis, and other lung diseases. * Children who breathe Secondhand Smoke have more inner infections * Children who breathe Secondhand Smoke are more likely to develop asthma * Children who have asthma and who breathe Secondhand Smoke have more asthma attacks * There are an estimated 150,000 to 300,000 case every year of infections, such as bronchitis and pneumonia in infants and children under 18 months of age who breathe Secondhand Smoke. These result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations. Quote:
Quote:
Your argument borders the assumption that you think drinking and driving shouldnt be illegal, since you are only hurting yourself. Bottom line is, these things DO kill other people and something needs to be done about it. Thank you New York, California, and all the other places where it is banned in public. I am also in Columbus, OH happily waiting for our ban to come into effect.
__________________
Mike |
|||||
12-28-2004, 09:09 AM | #98 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: Atl
|
Actually, there are a number of questions about the origonal EPA report on second hand smoke. http://www.consumeralert.org/fumento/passive.htm The report noticed an increase in cancer at a rate of 2 per million - which any research scientist will tell you is statistically insignificant - less than 1 thousandth of a percent.
Saying that smoking will kill you also ignores a number of things. Things like, many non-smokers get lung cancer, and many life long smokers don't get cancer. As genetics improves we may find that smoking increases the rate at which genetically inclined people develop cancer - or maybe not. Smoking does seem to be the most obvious cause, but is by no means the sole cause. However, all cancer victims drink water... makes you wonder doesn't it? How many scientists does it take to figure out if eggs are good for you or not? Children however, are very bad for my health. There is a stastical evidence that shows that prolonged exposure to other people's children, raises my liklyhood of killing that child and then become sentenced to death. I started writing this before godxzilla posted his facts. Hey godxzilla, could you post where you got those facts from? This is the internet, I can check your work. Otherwise you got your statistics from where I got these statistics... * Secondhand children cause rashes on all mice * Secondhand children a known carriers of the plague * Secondhand children kill 40,000 migrant workers every second * Secondhand children cause an estimated 20 billion dollars in property damage every week * Secondhand children are the number cause of wedgie related accidents I got those facts from my ass. This is why I didn't link to them - as my ass doesn't have a URL at this time. (I'm just being a dick about you not citing your source... nothing against you of course...) But my point all boils down to this. If you don't like smoking, why do you have to get the government to ban it? Can't you just go to a bar that doesn't allow it? It's called exercizing freedom. What you have done is called restricting freedom. This is my main problem with the whole thing. |
12-28-2004, 09:17 AM | #99 (permalink) | |
Psycho
|
Quote:
|
|
12-28-2004, 09:31 AM | #101 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Columbus, OH
|
Quote:
Smokers are not the only ones with freedoms. We all have them...where is the line drawn? I read most of my facts from www.thetruth.com but also some came from newspaper articles and magazine articles I have been reading on the subject lately since it came up for vote back in november here in ohio
__________________
Mike |
|
12-28-2004, 09:33 AM | #102 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Columbus, OH
|
you can also read the facts that the EPA has on the subject. if thats not a credible source, nothing is.
http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/
__________________
Mike |
12-28-2004, 09:35 AM | #103 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Columbus, OH
|
some more good reading from the EPA about the health risks of second hand smoke
http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healthrisks.html the bottom line is, second hand smoke DOES affect those around you. Anyone who thinks differently is just not thinking at all.
__________________
Mike |
12-28-2004, 09:45 AM | #104 (permalink) | |
Mad Philosopher
Location: Washington, DC
|
Look, I don't mind some measures to reduce health risks from second-hand smoke -- well, that's not true, I do mind, but I'll put up with it. There's a coffee shop near me where the smoking section is entirely enclosed -- it makes you feel like you're on display, but hey, I get to smoke indoors, and you don't have to breathe my smoke. Exhaust fans, in sufficient quantity, can greatly reduce the amount of second-hand smoke in the air without annoying smokers at all. Now godxzilla posts the following list of effects of second-hand smoke - one question would be, what kind of exposure are we talking about? I think if you have kids, and smoke in your home, you're an asshole. But that's a different level of exposure entirely than one night at a bar. Moreover, take a look at the list:
Quote:
__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche |
|
12-28-2004, 09:53 AM | #105 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Why it is even necessary for someone to be able to smoke in public places? It seems ironic to me that most smokers will passionately defend their right to make everyone around them uncomfortable under the pretext that they shouldn't be made uncomfortable.
You will not die if you can't smoke in public. I just want to hear one smoker admit that smoking is a filthy habit, and that forcing everyone else to smoke along with you-because you went and got yourself addicted- is a fundamentally selfish act. |
12-28-2004, 10:02 AM | #106 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Columbus, OH
|
Quote:
as for the levels of exposure, does it matter? If its a known carcinogen, why expose your children to ANY? who determines how much is too much, and when is it too late? My wife is pregnant right now. we just spent our holidays bouncing from airport to airport going through the security lines. Now there is no correlation between birth defects and the metal detector. Many women go through them every day...but they ask the woman whether she wants to go through or not because it is HER decision how safe she wants the baby to be, not the TSA, and definately not you (smoker...not directed at anyone). If some level of exposure is bad no matter how extreme, than none is the best, right?
__________________
Mike Last edited by godxzilla; 12-28-2004 at 10:04 AM.. |
|
12-28-2004, 10:20 AM | #107 (permalink) | |||
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
NONSENSE! You call my article dated? The EPA report you write about is from 1992! and is only a survey that covers other reports! That 3,000 deaths number is fictitious nonsense, the EPA report even admits it! That the number gets repeated in every EPA and anti-smoking bulletin does not make it true.
The World Health Organization did a study in 1998 that: "CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate no association between childhood exposure to ETS and lung cancer risk. We did find weak evidence of a dose-response relationship between risk of lung cancer and exposure to spousal and workplace ETS. There was no detectable risk after cessation of exposure." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract If you have a more current source for your numbers that don't rely on the bullshit EPA study, link to them here. Otherwise, cut that crap out! Quote:
Everybody does some activity that annoys somebody else. You have no right to be free from annoyances in public places. You have a right not to be killed in public, that's true, but until you can demonstrate a substantial link between an activity and some measurable harm to others the activity should be allowed. Quote:
Quote:
1. Smoking is cool. If you claim it's not, it's because you're not cool. It's also relaxing and enjoyable. The coolness, relaxingness and enjoyableness outweigh the smell for those of us who smoke. 2. Are you telling me that you have no selfish activities? Do you have cable television? Why aren't you putting that money to good use by saving the poor children in Africa who die from lack of food instead of watching the food channel while eating a whole Turkey for Christmas? Pick a reason for the banning of smoking and stick with it. Every reason you present can be shot down, one at at time.
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
|||
12-28-2004, 10:33 AM | #108 (permalink) | |
Is In Love
Location: I'm workin' on it
|
Quote:
__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great. |
|
12-28-2004, 10:34 AM | #109 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Columbus, OH
|
well considering you are quoting like 4 or 5 folks, ill try to keep it brief.
first of all, you think smoking is cool. you really do? maybe 20 years ago when the risks were not well known, it was a way to differentiate yourself from everyone else. it became a way of life and defined a specific group of people who may have been "cool". Now, its just plain stupid. After all the studies and the facts are known, you would have to be pretty stupid or extremely weak to continue. I have read a bunch of other threads of yours, and it all boils down to the fact that you are a pissed off individual for whatever reason. Were you neglected as a child? I cant explain what it was, only you can. but I can tell that you need some help. maybe just a little growing up is all you need, I'm not the person to answer that. What I want you to do for me, is give me a list of smoking benefits. no internet searches, no bullshit, just create a list of, oh, 10 reasons smoking has benefitted (spelling again, not sure about that one ) your life. I am not saying you shouldnt do it. I dont care if you kill yourself - truly, i will supply the bullet if you ask nicely. but once it starts affecting me and my family, you are going to hear from me. I am obviously not alone or this topic would cease to exist. The country has spoken, and smoking will be banned in public everywhere, its just a matter of time. Instead of wasting your time arguing with me about it, maybe you should start thinking of more creative ways to obtain lung cancer in public
__________________
Mike Last edited by godxzilla; 12-28-2004 at 10:36 AM.. |
12-28-2004, 10:43 AM | #110 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Columbus, OH
|
Quote:
you mean YOU dont do that to men when you see them? Honestly anyone who compares cool with smoking, be it the smoker or his "cool friends" need to get a life.
__________________
Mike |
|
12-28-2004, 10:57 AM | #111 (permalink) |
Submit to me, you know you want to
Location: Lilburn, Ga
|
I never thought it was "cool" to smoke....its something I enjoy, others think its a filthy habit, I dont. It relaxes me when Im stressed the same way drinking does for other people (and drinkers stink too by the way). There is not much in life more enjoyable than a smoke after a really good meal (well to me there isnt).
Like I've said before...non smokers have a right to not have to be around it....just like I have a right not to patronize the establishments where its not allowed. If every single public place in the world banned smoking then fine....I can live a few hours without a smoke...I do it all the time at work. my only gripe is this.....If I wanted to open a bar for smokers only....I wouldnt be allowed in my county and THAT isnt fair.
__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!! |
12-28-2004, 11:00 AM | #112 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Columbus, OH
|
Quote:
__________________
Mike |
|
12-28-2004, 11:00 AM | #113 (permalink) | |
Is In Love
Location: I'm workin' on it
|
Quote:
I wouldn't have a problem with bars that allowed smoking. I just probably wouldn't go there. I'm not so much worried about getting cancer from spending 3 hours in a club, I just don't like smelling like an ash tray when I go to sleep that night.
__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great. |
|
12-28-2004, 11:12 AM | #114 (permalink) |
Submit to me, you know you want to
Location: Lilburn, Ga
|
Trust me....if it were allowed in GA somebody would have done it by now....our smoking ban went into affect April of 2004 and there was even a special session of the county commission because a club here Wild Bills (biggest country bar in the SE or something like that) had just put in a casino style ventilation systems MEGA BUCKS and it was put in before the ban was in and they tried to get grandfathered in and the county wouldnt allow it. So now.....instead of the smokers being in an area designated for them....they stand outside and smoke where all the non smokers have to walk thru it. (not saying thats right....I personally never stand around a door to smoke...but them I am considerate even though I have a "filthy" habit).
If they couldnt get an exception I doubt anyone could.
__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!! |
12-28-2004, 11:37 AM | #115 (permalink) | ||||
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
Quote:
I did find one though: It feels goooooooood. Until it hurts you, leave me alone. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And you don't need to worry about bullets, I'll probably be dead from another type of cancer in a few years anyway.
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
||||
12-28-2004, 11:41 AM | #116 (permalink) | |
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
Quote:
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
|
12-28-2004, 12:28 PM | #117 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
I cannot stand the smell of smoke, it ruins my meals more then any other factor, and that includes bad food. I do not think this is at all like restricting races or weight, as others have suggested.
I have often thought, why not carry around a bottle of that fake fart smell, and just sit in the smoking section and spray it all day. Walk ahead of smokers on the streets and spray the stuff behind me. Just so *maybe* they can see how it is on the non-smoker side. |
12-28-2004, 12:45 PM | #118 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
If you want to create farting and non-farting sections please do so, but I would oppose a law prohibiting the passing of gas in public just as much as I oppose the smoking in public ban.
And if the smell of smoke ruins your meal, why don't you sit in the non-smoking section or go to a non-smoking restaurant?
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
12-28-2004, 01:06 PM | #119 (permalink) | |
it's jam
Location: Lowerainland BC
|
Quote:
...smoking is cool? Where are you from?
__________________
nice line eh? |
|
12-28-2004, 01:52 PM | #120 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
|
I don't like the smell of Taco Bell, and I don't eat there. Now, some people like to eat at Taco Bell. It probably wouldn't kill them to not eat at Taco Bell, but I hardly think it's appropriate to outlaw Taco Bells. And eating there is probably a hell of a lot worse for you than smoking a cigarette.
Yes, I think smoking is cool and relaxing. You're free to disagree, but that's no reason to outlaw smoking. You must do some activity which I think is uncool, but I have intention of banning it. Do you wear sneakers with lights in them? I can't think of anything I consider more uncool, yet people actually pay money for these things. Do you wears T-Shirts with advertisements on them? This is only slightly less uncool than the sneaker thing, but people actually pay money to wear an advertisement. Do you watch sitcoms? Lame, boring shit that emasculates men and repeats the same stupid plotlines forever, but people even Tivo this shit! I am disgusted by all of these things, yet people disagree with me and consider them cool. I don't try to outlaw sneakers with lights in them or burn down the studio of "Everybody loves Raymond," and I hope you would show smokers the same respect by not trying to cut in on their cool action.
__________________
------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. |
Tags |
antismoking, laws |
|
|