Seeking good information/sites for someone starting to go to the gym... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Grondar · 05-14-2004, 07:58 AM

Hiya everyone.

I have had 2 gym memberships in the last 3 years (on and off, nothing serious). I'm about to start a 3rd, and am striving for more consistency this time around.

I am a skinny guy (6' 1", 155-160 lbs), and was just wondering if anyone had any good advice or even websites that provided good information about doing things "right"?

I've noticed that when I lifted weights, I wasn't seeing much muscle gain, which was fine, as I am sure the activity was still benefitting me..

I really enjoy doing cardio (as much as that can be enjoyed, heh), but I also want to do some weights, focusing more on my upper body, as my chest "indents" at the sternum.

I'm not sure if that can be addressed via lifting/cardio (it's a cosmetic thing, so I'm not considering surgery), but regardless, I want to start going to the gym again and being active.

This is a pretty open discussion.. Basically, I am starting to go to the gym again. I am not "hardcore," but I would like to get in better shape, and seeing some muscle gain would be nice, but I'm more interested in just being more healthy. If I can put on some muscle, then great; if not, at least all the excersize is doing good elsewhere; or at least that is my take on it.

So anyone that has thoughts/advice/suggestions, whether they be about types of excersizes to do, what to eat, how often to excersize, and what to do to avoid "over-excersizing/working" a particular part of the body, would be great!

Again, I am not looking to be a body builder; I just want to start going to the gym on a regular basis so I can start to improve my health and fitness, and ideally make it something I continue to do throughout my life.

Comments of any nature would be great! I haven't posted in this forum much up until now, but I've spent quite some time lurking here this morning, and there seem to be a lot of highly informed people that take the time to reply and help out.

Thanks and take care.

EDIT: One last thing I just thought of.. Does anyone have additional thoughts or comments on the rep to weight ratio? IE, do you recommend more reps at a lower weight, or less reps with more weight?

apeman · 05-14-2004, 08:10 AM

last time I joined a gym I had an induction, where someone who knows what they're talking about takes you round all the equipment and tells you how to do it without injuring yourself... does that happen at your place or do they just let you loose?

Grondar · 05-14-2004, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apeman
last time I joined a gym I had an induction, where someone who knows what they're talking about takes you round all the equipment and tells you how to do it without injuring yourself... does that happen at your place or do they just let you loose?

Good post.

I mentioned having 2 gym memberships.. One of them "crossed" to an upgraded facility.. This time (the 3rd) is at the same gym the other 2 were at, so I am still "on file."

When I signed up the very first time (at the older place), they did do an induction where they have you do some strength excersizes and determine your capabilities..

They then had a computer where it would actually recommend a training program..

It's neat you bring that up, and leads me to 2 other questions..

First, do you think the computer-generated workout plan is a good one, that is worth following?

Secondly, do you think my original suggested "workout routine" (taken, 2, maybe 3 years ago) would still be useable, or is it best to do the "induction" again? I am not sure if my old "routine" is still available, and I honestly didn't really follow it, as my dad had his own ideas about what I should be doing, but this time I am going into this on my own accord, so I am more "free" in that sense. Also, I wonder if it is possible do to the induction again, or if it's a one time only thing?

Thanks for the reply!

Phaenx · 05-14-2004, 02:28 PM

Screw induction. Max-OT.

www.johnstonefitness.com

SiNai · 05-14-2004, 08:31 PM

There's a term for your sunken chest, I just can't remember what it is.. Anyway, it's pretty common..

Low rep/high weight is usually associated with packing on muscle, and high rep/low weight is usually for toning and conditioning. Whatever you do, make sure you have the right weights- make sure you're able to get to the end of your set, but then again you shouldn't be able to push out many more reps on that weight.

I think that mostly, if you're not trying to be that 'hardcore', that something is definitely better than nothing. In other words, if you're going to lift to work your upper body, just keep the basics in mind, know (or learn) your muscle groups and how to target each, and work each group once a week. Combine groups that are close together or work together to do a complex lift and do them on the same day- for example, bi's, tri's, and chest. 4-5 days a week is nice but not necessary, you could definitely hit each muscle in your body 3 days a week, 2 would even be possible if you don't really want to focus on your legs. On days you don't lift you could go in and do your cardio, but I wouldn't recommend doing both cardio and lifting on the same day.

If you need to learn, I've had a few good informative books, the internet has good info too, the site above is hardcore, abcbodybuilding.com is my particular favorite. If you really want some advice on workouts, I could post some workouts I've been doing, if you want to get an idea.

On nutrition, try to learn what foods contain protein and make it a habit to seek them out, and try to get some after your workout (~40g is ideal in the form of whey). Whey protein is an easy way of obtaining mass amounts of protein, and not too expensive- it can be bought online pretty cheap. Without going too much in depth, I try to keep my diet balanced at a 40/40/20 ratio of protein/carbs/fat, but I haven't been really watching it too closely. That is a good balance, though. Stay away from simple carbs unless it's post-workout.

Anyway, that's the basics..

Grondar · 05-14-2004, 09:11 PM

Thanks for the reply.

Quote:

Originally posted by SiNai
There's a term for your sunken chest, I just can't remember what it is.. Anyway, it's pretty common..

Interesting. My case is cosmetic only, in that I don't have trouble breathing or pain as a result, even when I am active for long periods of time.

It is something that is annoying, in that it causes me to look "different" than others. I honestly doubt it can be "fixed" via weight training. I am just wondering if adding any kind of muscle to my chest could just exaggerate it more.. It is something I think about and notice, but those were the cards I've been dealt. I'll deal.

Quote:

Low rep/high weight is usually associated with packing on muscle, and high rep/low weight is usually for toning and conditioning. Whatever you do, make sure you have the right weights- make sure you're able to get to the end of your set, but then again you shouldn't be able to push out many more reps on that weight.

Thanks for this info.. What would you consider low rep and high rep counts?

I have the mindset that it will be very difficult for me to add a lot of muscle mass, just because I am like a string bean. I may be wrong though. Then again, I'm not looking to be the next Mr. Universe, even it it was possible.

Quote:

I think that mostly, if you're not trying to be that 'hardcore', that something is definitely better than nothing. In other words, if you're going to lift to work your upper body, just keep the basics in mind, know (or learn) your muscle groups and how to target each, and work each group once a week.

Good advice

Quote:

Combine groups that are close together or work together to do a complex lift and do them on the same day- for example, bi's, tri's, and chest. 4-5 days a week is nice but not necessary, you could definitely hit each muscle in your body 3 days a week, 2 would even be possible if you don't really want to focus on your legs. On days you don't lift you could go in and do your cardio, but I wouldn't recommend doing both cardio and lifting on the same day.

The thing with cardio is.. It can really kick my ass, and I like that. Because I just keep going and pushing myself.

With weights, I find it a little more difficult, because I am not sure when to stop.. If I set out to do 3 sets, but after completetion, feel I can do more, should I, or do I just stop and move onto something else?

Also, it's interesting you mention not doing cardio and lifting on the same day.. Any reason for that? Is it counter-productive?

Quote:

If you need to learn, I've had a few good informative books, the internet has good info too, the site above is hardcore, abcbodybuilding.com is my particular favorite. If you really want some advice on workouts, I could post some workouts I've been doing, if you want to get an idea.

If you'd be willing to post some of your workouts, I'd be very interested in seeing them.

I think the toughest part will be getting started, because after that I will ideally start to get in a routine.

Quote:

On nutrition, try to learn what foods contain protein and make it a habit to seek them out, and try to get some after your workout (~40g is ideal in the form of whey). Whey protein is an easy way of obtaining mass amounts of protein, and not too expensive- it can be bought online pretty cheap.

What form is whey protein found in? Also, can you "overdose" on protein? If yes, what happens?

I'm not really familiar with protein and such, but I am a little concerned that if I don't excersize "enough" the protein won't be used, and possibly affect me negatively.. If that makes sense. I'm not really familiar with taking protein at all, and I admittedly probably am placing it among the other supplements sold at health stores, which may be unfair.

Quote:

Without going too much in depth, I try to keep my diet balanced at a 40/40/20 ratio of protein/carbs/fat, but I haven't been really watching it too closely. That is a good balance, though. Stay away from simple carbs unless it's post-workout.

Ok, I don't eat a lot.. I often have a peanut-butter and marshmallow sandwhich, with a yogurt, and possibly some pretzels for lunch. Is that bad?

I eat other things also, but the PB&M sandwhich has become kind of routine. Breakfast is oatmeal (also routine), and supper varies depending on who's cooking.

I stopped eating fast food months ago, and rarely eat desserts. I don't drink soda (just water and juice), and generally I eat less than more, if that makes sense..

I also have been taking a multi-vitamin, fish oil tablets (4), a Vitamin C tablet, and Vitamin E (occasionally) and iron (even less) on a daily basis for years now.

I don't really know what I want out of going to the gym. The fact that I am skinny and don't have a lot to "work with" makes it tough to see myself putting on a lot of muscle. I'm not saying it's not possible, it's just my perception that I don't have much to convert to muscle.

I do want to start going to the gym, and stick with it this time. I like being active, and doing things, so I don't mind the strenuous part at all.. My body type seems to "lean" more towards cardio, but I am not sure if that means anything. Because I certainly wouldn't mind adding some muscle mass.

I am just not sure what I want, other than to get in shape, and stay there. I don't consider myself out of shape, but I think there is definitely room for improvement. In other words, I don't run marathons.

You presented a lot of great info, and I appreciate it a lot. If you could respond to some of my follow-up questions (there are a lot, sorry), that would also be greatly appreciated.

I guess it would help if I had a set goal or something that I wanted to achieve, but right now I kind of want to just get started and start to go every day, so that if anything, I can at least get into a routine and stick with it.

Thanks much!

apeman · 05-15-2004, 02:05 AM

eat a bit more protein maybe, and do a few weeks of the exercises - probably help you decide what you're going for

do NOT do weights every day, it won't help. Personally, I wouldn't run every day either, although some people do.

get into gradually though, otherwise you're more likely to hurt yourself. good luck!

majik_6 · 05-17-2004, 11:04 AM

As far as websites go, you could try:

www.menshealth.com

www.t-mag.com

www.bodybuilding.com

Those are decent sites, although T Mag can be a little "hardcore" at times.

Really, until you figure out what kind of goals you're looking to achieve, it'd be hard to recommend any specific course of action.

However, since you mentioned wanting to "get in shape" but not be too hardcore, try the Men's Health workout plan often referred to as the Iron Manual. It's a year long, but it's broken into 10 or 12 different segments. The first focuses on general toning and conditioning, while the later segments focus more on speed, mass, strength, or specific bodyparts. It's a good way to get an all-around fitness routine without having to do as much planning (since it basically sets it all out for you). It also has recommendations for reps and tells you how to set up each routine (whether it should be done with long breaks, shortbreaks, in triads, etc).

I "followed" phase 1 of that routine (I didn't stick with it very well, though) and had some pretty good results. It doesn't take too long to do (as far as time spent in the gym), and it's very, very effective.

Good luck!

Grondar · 05-17-2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by majik_6

However, since you mentioned wanting to "get in shape" but not be too hardcore, try the Men's Health workout plan often referred to as the Iron Manual. It's a year long, but it's broken into 10 or 12 different segments. The first focuses on general toning and conditioning, while the later segments focus more on speed, mass, strength, or specific bodyparts. It's a good way to get an all-around fitness routine without having to do as much planning (since it basically sets it all out for you). It also has recommendations for reps and tells you how to set up each routine (whether it should be done with long breaks, shortbreaks, in triads, etc).

I "followed" phase 1 of that routine (I didn't stick with it very well, though) and had some pretty good results. It doesn't take too long to do (as far as time spent in the gym), and it's very, very effective.

Good luck!

Thank you for the reply, and especially the info quoted above!

I think that is just what I need..

I am writing this reply as I read the provided PDF and instructions, but my initial impression is that this will be great for me.

I really don't have an idea of what excersizes/types of lifts I should be doing, and this guide should help that out greatly.

Just to make sure I am understanding the instructions and general "direction" of the "Iron Manual," it seems I will be doing an assortment of excersizes on a given day. IE, each day I will do 3 "triads" which each address different muscle groups.. Is that correct?

Given that they recommend doing the workouts 2 times per week at the beginner level, it seems there will be plenty of opportunities to also do cardio on days I am not lifting.. Which I like.

Another question that just came to mind..

How do you recommend deciding on a "starting weight" for a particular exersize?

The guide recommends 12-15 (let's say 15) reps. Initially, I assume I will have to try various weights, to see which works the best, but do I want to be "Dead tired" after 15 reps, or just strained? Does that make sense?

I realize I will have to do testing to find out the ideal weight for each excersize, but how do I determine what is a good weight to use? IE, how tired/beat should I be after 15 reps?

Thanks again. I really like this guide, and I think I am going to try it. Again, I am looking more to get fit and "in shape" than I am to become a Venice Beach product... So I actually think this may work well for me.

I appreciate all the replies, as I knew next to nothing in terms of sites, resources, and just general information prior to posting and reading the forums here. So thank you much for that.

StephenSa · 05-17-2004, 12:50 PM

If you can afford it you might consider a personal trainer to get started. I don't recommend throwing a lot of money at personal training at your level but since you know so little about weight training springing for a few sessions could get you off to a good start. A personal trainer would take the information you have given us plus get more specific data from you and give you dietary guidelines to follow and teach you how to do specific exercises, what machines to use, what order and number of exersizes etc to achieve your specific goals. That could be jump-start to your weight training education then you just work on your own. If you can't go that route then the already mentioned sites are great training resources and I'll add another -davedraper.com. Its done by a former world class body builder but its not just for "muscle-heads". There is a lot inspiration and good all around nutrition information as well. Good luck and have fun!

majik_6 · 05-17-2004, 08:11 PM

Grondar: You should use enough weight to be a little tired by the end of the sets. If 15 reps is "easy", you need more weight, and if after 15 reps you feel intense pain (more than just the day after soreness) you probably used too much.

Just start a little low, and build up until it feels "right". I usually get a friend that has more experience to help me find a good weight to use.

Whatever you do, don't try to use more weight than you're ready for. It's much, much better to use too little weight than too much. Focus on your form, and since the idea is toning and not bulking, shoot for lower weights.

If you're not sure, ask someone at the gym (but not while they're in the middle of a set or anything).

edit: And yes, each time you perform the workout, you'll be doing the 3 triads 2-3 times. Go all the way through the three triads, then repeat. Don't do an excercise, take a break, then do it again.

It's a fairly easy program to stick with and it's absolutely great!

05-14-2004, 07:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
Grondar Junkie Location: Pa, USA	Seeking good information/sites for someone starting to go to the gym... Hiya everyone. I have had 2 gym memberships in the last 3 years (on and off, nothing serious). I'm about to start a 3rd, and am striving for more consistency this time around. I am a skinny guy (6' 1", 155-160 lbs), and was just wondering if anyone had any good advice or even websites that provided good information about doing things "right"? I've noticed that when I lifted weights, I wasn't seeing much muscle gain, which was fine, as I am sure the activity was still benefitting me.. I really enjoy doing cardio (as much as that can be enjoyed, heh), but I also want to do some weights, focusing more on my upper body, as my chest "indents" at the sternum. I'm not sure if that can be addressed via lifting/cardio (it's a cosmetic thing, so I'm not considering surgery), but regardless, I want to start going to the gym again and being active. This is a pretty open discussion.. Basically, I am starting to go to the gym again. I am not "hardcore," but I would like to get in better shape, and seeing some muscle gain would be nice, but I'm more interested in just being more healthy. If I can put on some muscle, then great; if not, at least all the excersize is doing good elsewhere; or at least that is my take on it. So anyone that has thoughts/advice/suggestions, whether they be about types of excersizes to do, what to eat, how often to excersize, and what to do to avoid "over-excersizing/working" a particular part of the body, would be great! Again, I am not looking to be a body builder; I just want to start going to the gym on a regular basis so I can start to improve my health and fitness, and ideally make it something I continue to do throughout my life. Comments of any nature would be great! I haven't posted in this forum much up until now, but I've spent quite some time lurking here this morning, and there seem to be a lot of highly informed people that take the time to reply and help out. Thanks and take care. EDIT: One last thing I just thought of.. Does anyone have additional thoughts or comments on the rep to weight ratio? IE, do you recommend more reps at a lower weight, or less reps with more weight? __________________ "Yes, I rather like this God fellow. He's very theatrical, you know, a pestilence here, a plague there. Omnipotence. Gotta get me some of that." -Stewie Last edited by Grondar; 05-14-2004 at 08:01 AM..

05-14-2004, 08:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
apeman Wah Location: NZ	last time I joined a gym I had an induction, where someone who knows what they're talking about takes you round all the equipment and tells you how to do it without injuring yourself... does that happen at your place or do they just let you loose? __________________ pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

05-14-2004, 02:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Screw induction. Max-OT. www.johnstonefitness.com __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

05-14-2004, 08:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
SiNai Dreams In Digital Location: Iowa	There's a term for your sunken chest, I just can't remember what it is.. Anyway, it's pretty common.. Low rep/high weight is usually associated with packing on muscle, and high rep/low weight is usually for toning and conditioning. Whatever you do, make sure you have the right weights- make sure you're able to get to the end of your set, but then again you shouldn't be able to push out many more reps on that weight. I think that mostly, if you're not trying to be that 'hardcore', that something is definitely better than nothing. In other words, if you're going to lift to work your upper body, just keep the basics in mind, know (or learn) your muscle groups and how to target each, and work each group once a week. Combine groups that are close together or work together to do a complex lift and do them on the same day- for example, bi's, tri's, and chest. 4-5 days a week is nice but not necessary, you could definitely hit each muscle in your body 3 days a week, 2 would even be possible if you don't really want to focus on your legs. On days you don't lift you could go in and do your cardio, but I wouldn't recommend doing both cardio and lifting on the same day. If you need to learn, I've had a few good informative books, the internet has good info too, the site above is hardcore, abcbodybuilding.com is my particular favorite. If you really want some advice on workouts, I could post some workouts I've been doing, if you want to get an idea. On nutrition, try to learn what foods contain protein and make it a habit to seek them out, and try to get some after your workout (~40g is ideal in the form of whey). Whey protein is an easy way of obtaining mass amounts of protein, and not too expensive- it can be bought online pretty cheap. Without going too much in depth, I try to keep my diet balanced at a 40/40/20 ratio of protein/carbs/fat, but I haven't been really watching it too closely. That is a good balance, though. Stay away from simple carbs unless it's post-workout. Anyway, that's the basics.. __________________ I can't seem to remember now What it was like- to live life, before you.. symbiont

05-15-2004, 02:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
apeman Wah Location: NZ	eat a bit more protein maybe, and do a few weeks of the exercises - probably help you decide what you're going for do NOT do weights every day, it won't help. Personally, I wouldn't run every day either, although some people do. get into gradually though, otherwise you're more likely to hurt yourself. good luck! __________________ pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

05-17-2004, 11:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
majik_6 narcissist Location: looking in a mirror	As far as websites go, you could try: www.menshealth.com www.t-mag.com www.bodybuilding.com Those are decent sites, although T Mag can be a little "hardcore" at times. Really, until you figure out what kind of goals you're looking to achieve, it'd be hard to recommend any specific course of action. However, since you mentioned wanting to "get in shape" but not be too hardcore, try the Men's Health workout plan often referred to as the Iron Manual. It's a year long, but it's broken into 10 or 12 different segments. The first focuses on general toning and conditioning, while the later segments focus more on speed, mass, strength, or specific bodyparts. It's a good way to get an all-around fitness routine without having to do as much planning (since it basically sets it all out for you). It also has recommendations for reps and tells you how to set up each routine (whether it should be done with long breaks, shortbreaks, in triads, etc). I "followed" phase 1 of that routine (I didn't stick with it very well, though) and had some pretty good results. It doesn't take too long to do (as far as time spent in the gym), and it's very, very effective. Good luck! __________________ it's all about self-indulgence

05-17-2004, 12:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
StephenSa Psycho Location: Dallas, Texas	If you can afford it you might consider a personal trainer to get started. I don't recommend throwing a lot of money at personal training at your level but since you know so little about weight training springing for a few sessions could get you off to a good start. A personal trainer would take the information you have given us plus get more specific data from you and give you dietary guidelines to follow and teach you how to do specific exercises, what machines to use, what order and number of exersizes etc to achieve your specific goals. That could be jump-start to your weight training education then you just work on your own. If you can't go that route then the already mentioned sites are great training resources and I'll add another -davedraper.com. Its done by a former world class body builder but its not just for "muscle-heads". There is a lot inspiration and good all around nutrition information as well. Good luck and have fun! __________________ Thousands of Monkeys, all screaming at once. Pulling God's finger.

05-17-2004, 08:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
majik_6 narcissist Location: looking in a mirror	Grondar: You should use enough weight to be a little tired by the end of the sets. If 15 reps is "easy", you need more weight, and if after 15 reps you feel intense pain (more than just the day after soreness) you probably used too much. Just start a little low, and build up until it feels "right". I usually get a friend that has more experience to help me find a good weight to use. Whatever you do, don't try to use more weight than you're ready for. It's much, much better to use too little weight than too much. Focus on your form, and since the idea is toning and not bulking, shoot for lower weights. If you're not sure, ask someone at the gym (but not while they're in the middle of a set or anything). edit: And yes, each time you perform the workout, you'll be doing the 3 triads 2-3 times. Go all the way through the three triads, then repeat. Don't do an excercise, take a break, then do it again. It's a fairly easy program to stick with and it's absolutely great! __________________ it's all about self-indulgence