itchy93

Okay, first off, I'm not sure if this belongs here, but I guess I most closely relates to living rather than philosophy. Secondly, what follows is to be a long-winded rant meant to serve as an overview of my argument, and at times will make little to no sense; please feel free to reply and ask for elaboration. Thirdly, this does not apply to every one of the 6.4+ billion people on the planet; in fact, I recognize that certain factions are the exact opposite of these points. That said...

I've grown restless. Over the last three years I've begun really analyzing life, and trying to make some sense of it. I haven't drawn any definite conclusions except for this: this can't be it.

Regardless of what you believe about God, death, and existence in general, you cannot genuinely argue that this is the culmination of several thousand years of "civilization". Our current way of life seems so inherently wrong to me that I refuse to succumb to it. Our entire lives are devoted to work and money; maybe not every waking moment, but from a big-picture perspective. We spend the majority of our lives doing things we don't want to do, until we're old and retired, and then we get to "live the life we've wanted to". Meanwhile, we live lives of excess and indulge in useless "luxuries". We've degraded sex from a necessary procreational tool to a recreational activity, and aside from money, hold it as the second highest priority in life. We engage primarily in meaningless conversations of no substance, and occupy ourselves with trivial tasks, routines, and jobs to keep from thinking too much about anything that really matters, like God or death or even the world around us. We lie, cheat, steal, kill, and hurt others, and write it off as human nature when in fact, they are products of social nature. We continually destroy nature and rape the planet to accomodate our exponentially-growing population of stupid, individually-hedonistic people. We get seemingly worse and worse with every generation.

Like I said, this does not apply to every single person or group of people, but it does apply to the majority of humanity. I'm planning on becoming a Buddhist monk, because their views most closely resemble mine, and their way of life makes the most sense to me. I can't do this anymore. I can't accept the world the way it is. I can't go through the motions and become complacent with this life.

Without delving into the even-larger-yet-closely-related "Why are we here?" topic (I'll get to that in Tilted Philosophy), I was just wondering if you all could provide some insight into why we live the way we do. Do you see the world this way and just deal with it? Do you feel the way I do? Or do you see it from a more positive perspective? Help me understand and find some peace of mind.

Itchy93

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That's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

Nefir

Hey, if you feel Buddhism is the right answer to your frustration, then I wish you best of luck.

I personally disagree with your view of the world. It seems bitter and pessimistic.

I believe most people are generally good, and have no intentions or desires of lying, cheating, stealing or hurting others.

I believe that if you don't like your job, you should change it to something you do like (read about the concept of "Flow", in terms of enjoying your work).

I believe money is not something you work toward, but something you get as a side effect of being in Flow, and it gives you freedom in doing what you want with your free time. If money is all that work is about, and you hate your job, naturally you will begin to hate your own drive for money, and the perceived drive of others (even though they may be doing it because they truly like their jobs).

I believe the planet has handled alot worse than what we humans are doing to it, and compared to the start of the industrialization period (late 1800's, early 1900's), we are treating the planet infinitely better - but even that was hardly a scratch. If the planet wants us off, we wouldn't be here by now. Once we are gone, the planet will very quickly repair any damage that was done.

The easy way to deal with life's little problems is to build a cage for yourself, lock yourself inside, throw away the key, and then blame society for your imprisonment, as opposed to analyzing what is the root cause of your discomfort, and dealing with it.

You have found one possible solution in Buddhism. I hope it works out for you, and hope my post gave you some insight on a different view of the world.

__________________
You do not use a Macintosh, instead you use a Tandy
Kompressor break your glowstick, Kompressor eat your candy
Kompressor open jaws, Kompressor release ants
Kompressor watch you scream, Because Kompressor does not dance

Cynthetiq

if you spend time reading diaries and texts of people in history you'll find that they have the same issues, ilks, complaints, and drives... time changes, people don't or haven't.

find something that you can be passionate about however small it is, and grow it.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Prince

It seems to me that you need to fall in love, man.

Having said that, I agree with the majority of what you said. I guess I am the kind of person that just tries to get on with it and accept what I cannot change. I may not be proud of being human and part of this society, but I am also human enough to not care.

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Who is John Galt?

The_wall

I agree with a lot of your post, however you only live once, try and make the best of it man. I hope the Buddhist thing works out for you

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"We do what we like and we like what we do!"~andrew Wk

Procrastinate now, don't put off to the last minute.

itchy93

Nefir

I sound bitter?

Granted, it is a pessamistic way of looking at things, but at the same time, it's pretty realistic. My primary argument is that our lives are terribly over-complicated, and while it's possible to find a bit of happiness (perhaps in a better job, or a hobby), the system as a whole seems so excessively trite. The infinite strides we've made in medicine, science, and technology have allowed us to lead more comfortable lives, but at the same time, we live more frantic lives, always doing something that ultimately makes no difference in our lives, just in the way we live. And my comparisons are not to the 1800's, but to the hunter-gatherer days of yore (waaaaay yore )

Cynthetiq

I don't doubt that there are others before me who've felt this way; in fact, I'd be even more disappointed in humanity if there weren't.

The passion in my life is the arts: music, poetry, literature, and visual arts. And while they provide me with some serenity, it doesn't quite offset my perceptions of everything else. When everything as a whole seems meaningless, no one thing will change that.

Prince

Heh. Until recently, that was what I thought, too. My one drive in this world was to find true love. I believed that was our purpose in life, and if I were to achieve that, I could deal with everything else. But after ending up heartbroken after thinking I'd found it, I became pretty disillusioned. Part of me still likes to believe that, but the most positive outlook I can have towards it is that right now is just not my time to find it.

(Sigh) I guess I'm just the square peg to the world's proverbial round hole, and I'm trying so desperately to find my place, but I keep ending up lost, which makes me bitter and pessimistic.

Itchy93

__________________
That's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

Nefir

Itchy93, there's no such thing as a world without a square hole for pegs like you

The world is full of amazing possibilities and opportunities. No one knows what would make you happy better than you - it is up to you to decide what shape you want your ideal life to take, and make it happen.

__________________
You do not use a Macintosh, instead you use a Tandy
Kompressor break your glowstick, Kompressor eat your candy
Kompressor open jaws, Kompressor release ants
Kompressor watch you scream, Because Kompressor does not dance

Sho Nuff

I know exactly what you mean itchy. I feel the same way you do. My new years resolution last year was to find the meaning in everything and break from the routine. Over the course of the year I have developed a love of boxing and snowboarding which makes my life more fulfilling. Recently I have started playing guitar and disciplining myself in karate-do. It helped to find things that I enjoyed and were expressive and constructive.

Now Im in the process of leaving my boring 9 to 5 for a job that has purpose and allows me further training in self defence. What is missing from this society is discipline. Studying the philosophies of the great karateka as well as the philosophies of the Buddhists, Taoists, Christians and many other religions have helped me to see the things that are wrong with society and change them within myself even if I cant change all the world.

I seek to be the change I want to see in the world. That has given my life meaning and purpose.

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I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.

Averett

Itchy, are you sure you don't really live in Alberta, Canada? Cause this sounds just like something a good friend of mine would write... I personally love questioning things like this.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

itchy93

Sounds like I need to get a hobby

Thanks for your insights on this. It seems like I just need to keep searching for my little piece of happiness, and let the world do as it will.

Itchy93

__________________
That's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

Averett

I dont think you can be faulted for thinking about stuff like this. Most people don't and I think thats the big problem. If more of us did, maybe we could make some real changes.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

wilbjammin

Jean-Jacques Rousseau - "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains"

I've always thought that it was weird to view sex only from a mechanistic standpoint. Sex is a part of life, and why can't we view it in a positive light as something that can be enjoyed for reasons other than its ends. I agree that some people have reduced themselves to sex, but why focus on sex only for its procreational ends?

But you see how radical it is to pull entirely out of the system also. And, in doing that, you don't fix the problem, you just run from it. I don't know if opting out is a Good Faith solution, though it may ease your mind.

Is life in this system inherently have less meaning than anything else, or does it just highlight the absurdity of existence more clearly? I understand with perfect clarity what you're saying, because I used to ideolize the simple life withdrawn from society. My dream was more of being a shepherd in New Zealand and being totally self-succient. I would suggest reading Waldon by Thoreau again.

Love can't make up for not having an intrinsic motivator in life. Love becomes a crutch and a big tax on everyone if you're over-reliant on it. Not to say that when you're in love you shouldn't rely on your partner for things, but you need something that is entirely yours. If you have a passion for the arts, then go with that. Where creativity is lacking, and the mechanized, impersonal post-modern totality of existence feels crushing, overcome that by resisting it cognitively. Create in the face of it all.

We have to make our own holes.

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Innominate.

itchy93

wilbjammin:

That's why they're called "reproductive organs"; sex is a part of society, not life; procreation is a part of life. This is a distinction most people fail to make: social instinct is different than human instinct. "It's human nature to be (greedy/violent/etc.)"... no, it's social nature.

Even if we conclude that we are rational beings, and we can extend our "instinctual" urges for purposes other than the originally intended one. But at that, sex used to symbolize an intimate bond between two people; it used to be something that represented a higher level of love, and blah blah blah. Now it's just a casual thing to do for pleasure. I don't have a problem with eroticism/sensuality, but it's been so whored out (no pun intended) that it has no intrinsic value anymore except as a pleasureful activity.

I don't have any delusions of grandeur to run out and change the world. I just want to live a good life and be happy. Although like Averett said, maybe that's the problem: no one ever does anything about it, they just resign to a position that "this is the world, and I'm only one person."

You pose a very good question, one that will have me up all night contemplating. It seems like more and more, we try to detach ourselves from nature. The greater dependency we develop on machines, the more we resemble them and forget that we are still animals, and should live accordingly. I can't say which way of life is better because it all depends on perspective, but being an extreme romantic (I've actually reread Walden very recently) I tend to lean towards the primitive life.

Finding that love represented more than just companionship. It signified a higher level of existence, and affirmed that we are not just a lump of atoms coincidentally structured to behave the way we do.

Sho Nuff:

You're absolutely right. People lack discipline, and that's the root of most of my gripes. Even if we were to accept the current "model" as being adequate, the way that people actually function is still wrong. They would rather spend $4000 on a big-screen TV than donate to a charity. I guess to most people physical/sensational pleasures are more important than emotional satisfaction.

Itchy93

__________________
That's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

Fearless_Hyena

itchy93 -- thanks for your post, the initial post describes almost exactly how I've been feeling, but I've never put it to words. There are some fantastic concepts in Buddhism and I hope it works out for you. Thanks to everyone who has replied too, I've read some new, different ideas that I'll be thinking about for a while now.