Update
 

Well here's a post I've been dreading writing.

The Cook County Sheriff called my home yesterday and asked if my son could be placed under house arrest until his court date on Sept 8.

The conditions at the Cook County Jail-- this county includes all the scum from Chicago--are abysmal.
It's far exceding it's maximum capacity and no one's safety is assured.
As such, the County is trying to farm non-violent offenders out on their families, until the court sentences them. My son was arrested for not paying traffic tickets, not having registration in his car, skipping out on court dates-- which got him a suspended license, which he was picked up on this time.

So my hell spawn is here--with a chunky-looking bracelet on his ankle-- the home monitoring system-- and we have a lovely contraption attached to our phone so if he steps out the door, they'll nail him on a felony.

I don't know why I said yes--I guess I don't quite have the resolve dealing with the law, as I'm working on having with my son.
I asked my husband first, and we both agreed getting Jim out would get the car back that we have taken over making monthly payments on--as the police have him listed as the owner and won't release it to us. It will be nice to at least have custody of a car we'll be paying on for the next three years.
Jim is a secondary consideration as frankly, I don't have much faith that he'll behave for 2.5 weeks.

Right now, he's on his best behavior-- actually better than before. He wasn't in any way overweight before and he's lost quite a bit-- I assume from his bout with homelessless. He's thanking us profusely, but as the axiom goes, actions speak louder than words.
He speaks of the roaches and seeing a guy get stabbed in the neck at County, but I'm pretty jaded about anything that he says.
If there's even a tiny problem, we will call the Sheriff and revoke our agreement.

This isn't at all what was in the plan--it was a scenario that popped up that we hadn't considered. This is a pretty swanky jail, but he's not being given a bed --and certainly not the room he was in--which my husband quickly converted back into the guest room.

I guess it is what it is.

Just as I was writing now, he asked if he could pull an extra mattress out to sleep on, 'cause he hasn't slept on one in weeks--I said no-- he hasn't earned that right.
He doesn't deserve to be here, let alone deserve the comforts of home.
I feel like a total wimp. I guess I am. Sorry to disappoint.

Re: Update
 

Certainly no need to apologize. Given the situation it's probably the best decision (after all would you prefer they let a more violent criminal out in Jim's place?). I'm sure it's tough but you are taking a much harder line with him than you have in the past and there's always the slight chance it will have an impact.

Have you and your husband thought about what happens after his court date? That will be the next stumbling block. What happens if he gets probation (which will require a permanent address)? Will you allow him to live there? If yes, how will you control his actions without the anklet? There's a lot to think about. On the good side, you've got two and a half weeks that will likely be relatively smooth (at least as compared to the last several months).

Good Luck and stay strong!

DD stay strong....

one thought probably crossed your mind.... you don't want to have regret, something happening to him and you saying, "If only..." This is your opportunity to take that last bite. Remember it's the last cookie. You cannot have anymore. You should not take anymore.

He's made these choices...remember that. He has to be an adult and live with the consequences.

I think that as long as you don't let him undercut you again, you'll be okay. Don't let him get between you and your husband- I'd make sure that any decisions concerning your son both you and your husband are fully in agreement with.

onetime2 has definitely given some important food for thought, i.e. 'what's next'. My feeling is that you can't put yourself into a situation where your trust is going to be betrayed again (him stealing the car).

P.S. You're not a wimp, you're human, and a damn good one at that.

The plan as he explains it, was put in place before his arrest.
When his *best friend* (who is also 20 years old) returns from vacation, he and Jim are moving into an apartment, with the friend's father's assistance.

This in fact, is slated to take place before the court date, so perhaps Jim will be moving (with the county's permission) before Sept 8.

Our agreement with the Sheriff was that Jim could stay here until and only until, the Sept 8 court date. They will not return him from court to our home.
If they do, we will refuse to allow his return.

OOPS! Sorry to have jumped in so late. I'm editing this top part because my original message below was written before I read all three pages of followthrough postings. My mistake, sorry.

What you are going through is very similar to what happened in my family. My older brother became manic/depressive (lithium imbalance, etc.) right at about 18 - 19 years old. He dropped out of college and my P's got him in the military thinking he needed discipline. He got sec. 8 about 1.5 years later - still undiagnosed. Long story, much suffering for many years.

The only thing I could add now is that I think you are handling this situation very well and I know it isnt' easy. Maybe he should go in for possible diagnosis for the need of drugs for his brain. They have come very far and this might help. The right diagnosis might also help him get a suspended sentence if he goes to live in a special halfway house or something. It worked for my brother - just a thought. I wish you the best.

Original untimely post below
___________________________
Tough love.

To let him continue his immature life with your support (food, lodging, etc.) is to be an "enabler" - where you are actually helping him be able to live irresponsibly.

I would report the car stolen if he doesn't bring it back.

I would kick him out and change the locks.

I would tell him that you won't support him acting like a child any more and that you are kicking him out.

I would tell him that you have removed him from your will.

I would tell him that you would be happy to see him again and possibly change will, etc. AFTER he has had a steady job and life situation and straightened up for a couple years.

I would tell him that if he keeps on going this way he will end up:

- in jail
- a bum
- or dead

and that you don't want to be the one who "helped" him become this way.

This is "tough love" but the only possible way for him to come to his senses. If possible I would tell all of this and suggest it to any other family members that he might try to live with and leech off of.

If he is going to improve, then this could be the catalyst that will start it.

My sympathies and strength go out to you Dub D.

I jumped into this late obviously and have noticed that I would agree with most of the thinking here. Tough love is the last, best answer. Unfortunately it seems to be the last option that you have here.

There's nothing that can really comfort you in the tragedy that is currently your son and no one (except another mother) can understand the pain in your heart. Unfortunately the best thing you can do for him is to endure and overcome that pain so that you can show him through that "tough love" that he needs to get himself up on his feet.

Sometimes you have to smack someone hard across the face in order to teach them something.

And I do not mean that litterally as I'm sure you've done that many times already. Or at least wanted to.

I think the best thing you could have done was to leave him in jail for him to learn what it's like to fend for hiself in one of the worst environments possible. Sure there's the danger that he'd get hurt or worse...but that's already the path he's chosen. Jail would have been a 'crash' course in what it's like and how real it all is.

In the end I hope that he shapes up enough to come back home and end the madness.

Good luck to your and your family Dub D.

Wow, *hugs* to Double D. I'm new here, just read this from the start.

Maybe the short time your son spent in jail scared him into acting right.

There not much I could add that hasnt already been said. You sound like a very strong woman. Best of luck to you and your family.

DD, you've obviously been thinking about this, and I for one am totally behind your decisions - both the choice to allow him to return until his court date (it shows that while he is not entitled to the same priviliges as the rest of the family, he's still PART OF the family) as well as your and your husband's resolve regarding the whole "what next" question.

Just a quick thought, though: If he is given probation, and if he is not in a position where he can reliably provide a fixed address for the court, then it might be in his best interest to work with the court and have him assigned to a halfway house or some sort of court-sanctioned housing. I'm not too familiar with the conditions that the State of Illinois uses when determining eligibility for probation, but I'm pretty certain that there must be some sort of method in place for the probationer to maintain contact with the court during that period.

I'll keep my eyes open, as I'm still pulling for you guys....

I am also jumping into this thread with not much more to say than has already been said. DD, just remember that YOU are a good person and this is NOT your fault. I think that deep down, you know what it is you need to do, and you know how strong you need to be. Hang in there.

dd,

i'm in chicago, too, just jumping in on your story.

i understand your not wanting to have your son in cook county, no matter how badly he's pissed you off.

when if first read that he was getting an apartment, i thought, "bad idea." but after thinking about it a little, it's the best thing. he will directly feel the results of any irresponsibility now. it'll be his stuff getting trashed, not yours.

it will also test whether he really understands the gravity of his situation. if he fucks up again, he's going away for a while. to where the stab people in the neck. he's never gonna understand that until he has to confront it without anywhere else to go (your house).

you are obviously a caring & loving mother, as you have gone way beyond what anyone deserves in the love & compassion dept. push him out of the nest & see if he can fly yet. you'll be doing the best thing you can for him.........

Update
 

(cribbed from today's journal)

I've had about 4 hours sleep and I'm off to the Hotel California.
That's the nick-name of the Cook County Jail --it's on California street. One of the lines from the song goes *You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.*
Pretty appropriate.
I'm taking #1 son to retrieve his belongings that were confiscated upon his arrest for driving on a suspended license, almost two weeks ago.
Currently, he's staying with us under house arrest--that's been a delight. To go from him almost never being here to always being here--well I took it on, so I'm dealing with it. (Miss my privacy!!!)
He's become our housekeeper and I'm teaching him a bit about cooking (I only know a bit.) Hopefully, he'll get something out of it. I give him a list of things to accomplish every day. He does 'em all and then usually does a few more on his own--a good sign yes, but hasn't been long enough to know if anything's *taken.*
It's forecasted to be 94 & humid today. Fine day to hit the city streets.
Actually, I'm thinking I might take a drive down LSD (Lake Shore Drive) along Lake Michigan, whist the boy deals with the red tape at at the jail.

Later today: Attempting to get his/our car out of impoundment.

dig deep for more strength and patience...

it's only for now.

Should of booted him 2 years ago. You grow up quicker fending for yourself.

sounds like you need to give Dr. Phil a call. I have seen a great many of cases where parents are put in your situation. Family matters are delicate matters and i wish you luck.

Going To Prison
 

(Similar to 8/27 Journal entry)

Oy.

Something about a gigantic prison surrounded by concrete and razor wire, guard posts peeking out above, is so unsettling.

It's so jarring to be driving along in the city, you turn a corner, and boom! there's an enormous facility warehousing thousands of people. I don't know what I expected -- something more like Attica (NY) prison out in the country, or Atascadero (CA), situated in the rolling hillsides, but it's such an affront to come upon this --thing--and more disturbing is the notion of all these people whose lives have gone so wrong. Just looking at the outside of that hole makes me wonder how he ever let his life slide so much that he wound up there in the first place.

It was such an incredibly hot & humid day. I took the Mustang and realized about half-way to Chicago that I should have taken the Malibu--I put the top up when we got there, but still felt very vulnerable--I don't know why exactly--the danger was supposedly behind bars.

There was no *civilian* parking, so I parked around the corner in front of a bodega, while my son hiked a block or two to retrieve his personal effects (including a paycheck, car keys, & jewelry).
After about a half hour, I was really baking and the diuretic effect of my morning heart meds. had kicked in pretty bad, so I cruised westward in search of some relief. I was quite surprised to find a clean-looking 31 Flavors/ Dunkin Donuts within walking distance of the prison. I'm pretty sure that by then I was in Little Mexico.
I never use facilities without buying something--I know, really lame-- but I felt like treating myself anyway, so after I was *buzzed* into the ladies room (first time for this suburban girl--keys yes, buzzers, not until now), I got a small mocha iced coffee drink. Took it back to the prison area, and still couldn't find a bit of shade to park the car in, that wasn't already occupied.

Thankfully, my son returned soon after I finished my drink.
We made our way back to the land of the bland-- then to the local police station to get a receipt to present the towing company. Lo & behold, my son was able to talk the towing company into dropping the fees by half (as he's been on house arrest for a week, and could only retrieve it as of today).
So it is done.

Son is doing a decent job of housekeeping--it's the first time in a long time that he hasn't lived like an absolute pig. He's done all the laundry for the past week, cleaned the bathrooms top to bottom, vacuumed, dusted, cooked. I ask him to do it-- he does it.

It's pretty good--not that I'm forgetting about all the damage done. Nope, all the good behavior in the world won't do that.

Right now I'm liking having my son around. In the past we'd often enjoy each other's company--on the way to the city today we cranked up the radio & sang to music from my era (Pink Floyd, Grateful Dead, Doobie Brothers, Led Zep). For a little while things seemed *normal.* But real normality will be when he's moved on.

hi there.... i poked my nose in the thread and ended up reading through the whole thing. brings back a lot of memories for me when i was younger.

i was in the position of your younger son, Double D, years ago. my parents had pretty much the same kind of problems with my older brother, that you're having with your older son. my parents tried there best to help him straighten up, but ended up going the same route that you have with the "tough love" kinda stance. after reading through all this, i believe you're doing the right thing and have handled it very well. after being involved in this situation myself, i understand what you're going through. just stay strong and things will turn out for the best, i'm sure.

turns out, years later, my older brother and my parents have become close and have a very good relationship, and my brother has turned out just fine. and believe me, he was VERY messed up. hope everything goes well for you and your family.

best wishes

i was just thinking about this a few moments ago. I hope that all is settling well.

DoubleD -- you are going through such an emotional time! Please remember to take time for yourself during this. You deserve to be emotionally healthy and sound. Don't let your son take that from you. Stay strong -- you are doing the right thing!

I still have my "good thoughts" in a box for you.

Update
 

Thanks to all--I seem to keep saying that but please know, it is heartfelt.

My son has been fine since being chauffeured here by the county sheriff, 2.5 weeks ago.
He's still doing almost all the housework (I don't allow him access to my bedroom or bathroom-even to clean), and he's keeping a good attitude.
I'm using a system that I used to use when he was a child as a form of behavior modification-- basically he works towards *earning* certain privileges.
He's actively seeking work, though he can't leave the house--he's had friends bring job applications from their places of employment--and he's updated his resume.

He admitted to me that he was pretty heavily using drugs--pharmaceuticals--when he was picked up on the driving with a suspended license charge. He was lucky he wasn't high at the time.

I'm pretty disappointed that he did *hard* drugs--he was already through experimenting with the getting smashed on alcohol stage. He smoked here & there, both cigarettes & marijuana (not anywhere near this house, though!)--he's knows how I feel about both. Any smoke in your lungs is not healthful--and marijuana (as we know) is illegal.
But he was using some kind of pain-killer--I can't remember the name of it--the new, improved version of vicodin--heh. He'd stay out all night when he got high--so I never saw him that way.

The first few days he was here, I could tell he was coming off something--so I guess being here has effectively been his detox period.
The very few friends I've allowed in the house are all kids I know--kids that are doing well in their lives-- and some that I've known for most of Jim's life. You can tell the good kids from the bad--the bad will avoid me like the plague (they are not welcome here)-- and the good are in no hurry to get away from me.
There's no door closing and the visits are upstairs in the living room--everything within visual & auditory range.

He's *earned* back sleeping in a bed--for now.

His court date is this Tuesday. He's pretty confident that time served will qualify him for release--but I don't know.
My husband and I are still between a rock and a hard place on the car that we co-signed on. If Jim works--and he's always been able to get a job--he can make his own car payments and we won't bear that burden for the next three years.
Sooo...to throw him out again would be a burden on us (i.e. he'd default on the car)... the debate goes on...he's hanging by a thread and he knows it.

We want to see him succeed in life--I think he can--but he's got to think he can--and then be enough of a man to keep clean and work his tail off to dig himself out of the hole he's in.

Thanks from the heart, sweetie; you know I still keep warm thoughts for you and your loved ones. :icare:

I told Jim of your little box of good wishes. He blinked really quickly a few times--pretty sure those were *man* tears.

Just a thought - and I'm sure you two have already come up with it as well - but if you need to find a suitable middle ground, then start charging your son rent for his room. He'll have to work to afford room & board, as well as his car payment, and you'll be able to provide him with shelter (and keep an eye on him to a certain extent).

If, on the other hand, he decides to continue with his plans to get a place with that friend you mentioned before, then this suggestion will most likely be unusable.

But I hope it helps, and throw a few good wishes from me in that box Lurkette is keeping!

After reading through all three pages here, it seems like he may be turning around from at least the hardcore stuff. While this in NO way abolishes the past, and the damage that has been done and paid for, and what is yet to pay for, I hope this gives you some reason to smile a little bit.

I still lived with mom and dad when I was 20, but I was going to the college that dad taught at, while we lived on campus. After one year of college, the plan was to sit out a year, and go to a different school. That didn't happen, and while I never paid rent to mom and dad, I did help some with food...not as much as I shoulda, but still...made my car payments, insurance, and such.

Either way, I hope things clear up, and you get your sense of normality back. Sounds like you're at least trying to make lemonade from the lemons life has given you. Keep your chin up! And another volley of good wishes into Lurkette's box!

*hug*

DD - wow, congratulations on doing a job well. I know it is not done yet -- but you are a fantastic mom and it shows. Some day your son will thank you for this!

As for the car issue, I might suggest that you not give him the car until he: 1. pays you back for the payments you have made; 2. shows you a current drivers license; 3. has proof of paid insurance with the deductable in your savings "just in case"; and 4. that he works for at least 3 months and stays clean.

The car for all intents is ours; we have the only keys and more importantly, he cannot legally drive. My guess is that he'll not be eligible to get his license back for at least 6 months.

Good suggestions all-- and yours, and *lurkette's box* of hopes/wishes is something that I cherish.

DD, I've read this whole thread up to now. I agree with everyone else: you're doing the best you can, seriously. I have seen a similar experience with my younger brother and he's really shaped up his life at least in no small part because of my parents strictness in face of his actions. My little bro rocks, and I do not feel the remorse of having him for a brother that I used to. Unfortunately, I think the whole incident kind of pushed us apart at least a little bit. Maybe we would have done that anyway even if he didn't get into such trouble, just by growing up. But the family is closer than it was back then. If you stay strong, maybe in 5 years (about how long it's been for us), you'll be having a good time with your independent son again. :)

It is in part because of my experiences with my brother (and many others) that I never smoke, drink, or do any kind of drugs. I rarely use prescription or OTC drugs either. I believe in cleanliness, control, and true judgment ability.

By the way, I am 21 and still live with my parents during the summer (and am entirely dependent on them for my college education). But I work my ass off when I'm not taking classes and don't give them any trouble like your Jim has. I pay for my hobbies and occasional meals. If my parents decided to stop supporting me financially, I would quit school (at least for now) and get a job. I probably would have done that after graduating from HS if they didn't offer to pay for my education, too (I prefer to keep the books black).

Keep it up, and let us know how this all ends up working out for you & Jim.

It's a serious thread, yeah, I know.

But for humor sake, might as well:

Love your kids? Prove it by beating them.

http://maddox.xmission.com/beatkid4.jpg

This is an amazing post - DoubleD I wish you and your family the best in dealing with a trying situation. I'm sure purposely turning your back on your son is insanely difficuly, but I feel it's the best for him in the long run. It sounds like where most people would consider rock bottom, he considers the norm, so he must be allowed to hit even further befrore he can be appreciative of "the good life".

Good luck, and thanks for the postings it's made for a wonderful read and insight.

Update
 

My son was released from house arrest on Tuesday of this week.
He had another court date on Wednesday, on a second count of driving with a suspended license, and he was given 6 months court supervision and various fines, to be paid by January.

He's still behaving well, he has a curfew, and mandatory (my mandate) drug tests and must be gainfully employed--no excuses-- within 2 weeks.
He has two job interviews set up on Monday--and has secured rides to them--so it seems like a good start.

I just wish he had wised up earlier--'cause we have no trust in him & it's hard to live with someone you don't trust. I suppose I'll always have room in my heart to have faith in him that he can succeed, though.
Still, he can't drive and we won't give him keys to the house--so it's not *normal* at all.

I just wish him the best. In that spirit, I'm taking him to a barbershop on Monday before his job interviews--it's seems to make practical sense and he was very grateful that I offered. I keep trying to teach him the *What goes around, comes around* rule, by example.
I sure do hope he's starting to get it.

While I can't say anything more than what has already been said, my best wishes Double D.

glad to see that the story is still moving in a postive direction...

I agree, it's very difficult to do anything around people you don't trust, let alone living with them.

But it sounds like good progress is being made. Hopefully your son will find a job.

You know, sometimes people have to hit bottom before things can start turning around. Sleeping on newspapers in the basement may have been the turning point in his life. In which case, you can thank yourself for giving him that--and in the fullness of time, he'll likely thank you himself.

You have done great and hopefully you have seen the worst of it already and he won't get "bad" again. The only thing that I could add is that you need to make sure that you aren't duped into unwittingly becoming his enabler. I would keep ALL the clamps on. If you haven't, I would have him go to AA and you to Alanon - sorry if I missed this in an earlier post. The only way I would let him keep living in my house was if he turned over all of his paychecks to me. I could then just dole out what he needs when he needs it. I would be worried that if he gets a wad of money in his pocket he will run out and buy drugs. This arrangement would help to insure that home is not a soft pillow for him to land on when he falls off the wagon. This should be his one time chance and keep the harsh controls and try to limit the time period where he will be staying at home. You have done great and so has he - to get him back on his feet. I wish you and him luck and happiness.

Well DD -- today is the first time I decided to check out this thread -- and read it from start to finish. As with 90% of the famlies out there, it seems there is always one black sheep to every family. The patience and strong will you have exhibited over the past month and a half are truly amazing. I am glad to see that the entire episode is at least heading in the right direction and my thoughts and prayers are with you. Keep us updated.

youve done the hard part - calling the police on this screw up, and that is a big step. If you have really given ultimatums, and he really hasnt respected them or you, then have a few friends over, put all the stuff that he owns on the front yard, and change the locks on your house.

Anyone who treats their parents like that needs to learn the hard way how much parents really do for their children.

Our 23 year old son checked himself in to the emergency room to get help and detox off of oxicoton and heroin. He ended up in a detox center and for the first time all the people closest to him were on the same page and got honest with ourselves and each other. It wont work if there is a weak link with the people who are making themselves feel better by supporting his addictions, lies, inappropriate behaviors, and his demise. We, my husband and I, have allowed our son to continue his destruction in our home for years. We can never seem to get on the same page when it comes to honesty and standing strong together, it's been heartbreaking and hell. This time my sons loved ones came together and decided that we had enough. For the last two years I had to surrender and go along with the same bad behaviors. We gave him money often, made excuses for him, argued over what was right and what was wrong for him, on and on and on, a never ending battle. I called the detox center and got in touch with his sponsor, since he had put my name down on the emergency contact I was legally allowed to speak to his counselor. We set up an intervention on the phone with the counselor and one by one we told him that his way wasn't working and all of us together were finished unless he continued with long-term treatment. We are attending Alanon meetings and supporting each other to remain strong. My son really lost it when his fiance told him she was finished and moving to another state. She now has changed her mind and told him she would be open to a relationship if he got some long term sobriety. She is the weak link at this point and he is manipulating her. Tomorrow I will turn her on to this site, it might help.

These are crazily difficult situations. I don't pretend to have the answers. Reading through this old thread, I'm impressed with the experience and knowledge that has been passed along. weaklinkmom, I wish you luck in your efforts. Sounds like you and your family are taking all of the right steps.

without reading all the other replies and being a shit of a son myself at one time I must say it's time for him to go. I know instincts say otherwise, the want and need to protect. But he is flat out using you, he is taking advantage of your good will.

I'm pretty sure in about 2 years I'll be makingthe same decision myself. My son is 17 and I've already had it. He doesn't want to work, he doesn't know where he is headed in life, he refuses to make his own decisions and it's high time he started to at least point himself in the direction of his own future. Sometimes there is only one way to do that.

In my late teens I spent time in and out of my parents house, knowing I could always go home if I got kicked out of an apartment or someother situation. It wasn't until I took a road trip 3 states down that I had to learn to depend on myself. I still live 3 states away.

Double D,
I know this thread is 7 years old, but i truely hope you still get feedback from it. I am going through the same shit currently. In fact, he crossed the line the other day for the last time and i told him to leave.

What i want to know is, how did things turn out for you and your son? do you regret the decision you mad?

cavegn, Double D hasn't posted here in literally years and years. No idea if she still lurks, but I'd say the odds are strongly against you getting an update on her particular situation. Might be worth posting your own thread for feedback, though.

Yes, kick him out. You need to find peace in your life and having him in your home is not going to help you find it. He needs to learn to make his own way. At 20, it's sink or swim time for him. Sometimes the hardest thing for you to do is the best thing. In this case, it's sending him on his way. I would also say that if he doesn't bring the car back soon, call the police. You might try to get him to join the military or something - not sure if they'd even take him but it could be the best thing for him.

Good luck!

If he hasn't brought the car back 7 years later, it's probably best to just give it up as gone. It ain't coming back now.

So, just read the thread. My question at this point is...has he really 'hit bottom' and is ready to start rebuilding his life, or is he just behaving while he 'has to'? I don't have any answers.

It was on the top of the msg board and I didn't see the date. I thought it was new. So sorry.

ya i saw the date on the thread and was hoping the post the brought it back was her giving an update after all these years....i think a mod should email her! and tell her we are curious

You teach people how to treat you, and your son has learned well.

My advice: change the locks and report the car stolen.

She was banned several years ago for what we accepted as a good reason, I don't think this is going to happen.

fair enough

Toss him and make him grow up