KirStang

Hey all,

I'm in law school, and in your first year, your exams are your life. Make the A? Get the plush firm job. Get a B? You're nothing. So the pressure's pretty intense.

As is true with most law students, I have a study group. I kinda put this one together, and it sorta just fell in to place too. Eitherway, there's three of us, incidentally all asian (one japanese, me taiwanese, the other colombia-japanese). We get along *VERY* well. I was lucky to come up with a group with great chemistry. The study group eats lunch and dinner together near exam time--so we see a lot of each other (hence why chemistry is important). Eitherway, we mesh well.

So here's the problem--we have a new member, he's polish (hereinafter "he"). At first, he was pretty cool, we all worked well, no problems. HOWEVER as of late, he has been TOO MUCH. Here's the problem--he's incredibly selfish. He takes, destroys, annoys, and never realizes he's doing it.

When we first started studying together--the four of us, we were all great. However, the new guy has been acting incredibly obnoxious lately.

First and foremost, he WILL NOT SHUT UP. I dropped hints at first. "Hey, you're cutting me off, you need to stop that." Then I dropped stronger hints, "Listen, Let. Me. Finish." Then, when we were alone, I told him straight up, "Look, you're toe stepping, you need to be more considerate." [As a guy, and an adult in professional school, I never thought I'd have to say this--I thought people will be more polite automatically.]

The problem with him NOT shutting up is that--as a study group, we're losing productivity. I'll ask the colombian-japanese guy to explain something, and the new guy just cuts in. And he's loud. If I try to read some really dense passages/concepts/rules he'll start blabbering about how he understands it, and again, I can't make sense of what i'm reading.

Second, he takes and takes and takes. Destroyed my dry-erase marker ("Dude, you don't have to press so hard" reply: "What...it was already like that" [it wasn't. He was drawing like an excited child on the board, and, the marker bled out all over his hands]). I buy some snacks for the study group, with the thought that this will last until the end of the day. It doesn't. He fucking finishes the whole thing. "OMG THIS IS SO GOOD" Nom nom nom nom nom. I bought a pack of chips for myself. He has the gall to pick it up, take it to his seat and just proceed to eat 80% of it. Same with gummies. He destroyed a friend's pen. I'll ask if something left behind is anybody's and he'll claim it just because...he can always use extra (it was another member's pen). Bought a cookie. Took it out. Bam. He finishes it. I don't even get to nibble on it.

Gas money. None. Always wants to study somewhere outside of campus (College Park and other librarys are (a) far away, and (b) are risky places to meet as a study group since we require four plugs, four seats, and a place where it's ok to talk. (So we end up losing hours of productivity driving around looking for seats and plugs).

My main concern is that, he's dragging me down. He's like a whirlwind of buffoonery and I'm getting caught up in it. When I confronted him again, he told me he was on anti-depressants and that was the cause (I hope so, because if not, then he's very ill socialized). The next day he continues the obnoxious behavior. [To clarify, he did badly on an oral argument assignment, then, apparently feeling shitty tried to get back with his ex in class. Me feeling bad for him buys him some starbucks to cheer him up. But apparently he decided he needed psychiatric help. Bam. Antidepressants (seriously?)].

I'm not sure what I should do. I think I'll get more work done studying alone, but I know for a fact that my study group has been great for (a) moral support (b) clearing up concepts i'm cloudy on. Furthermore, I don't want to burn bridges by telling my study group I'd rather study alone.

Any help guys?

ametc

Kick him out. Ask for a group meeting without him and talk about it.. they probably feel the same way, too, if he's that bad. The next meeting.. kick him out.

Grancey

I know people like that, and his behavior will only get worse and worse. Do not tolerate this. As ametc suggested, talk to your group without him. Take a vote if neccessary, and go from there. Trying to reason with him is pointless. He doesn't see that his behavior is annoying and inappropriate, and for him not to see that he has a negative impact on the group is selfish. You will suffer for this if you don't help yourself now. It's your future.

__________________
Quiet, mild-mannered souls might just turn out to be roaring lions of two-fisted cool.

BogeyDope

First rule of Econ is to cut your losses.

This guy is a major loss.

Therefore, we can infer that...

Just tell him straight up. "You're annoying, you suck, you're ruining our groove. You're not allowed to study with us anymore." Problem solved. It should be easy for someone intending on a career in law.

__________________
Focus. Control. Conviction. Resolve. A true ace lacks none of these attributes. Nothing can deter you from the task at hand except your own fears. This is your sky.

eribrav

Just out of curiosity......it struck me as odd that you describe your friends by their
ethnicity.
Is that how you classify them in your head?
I'm not even sure I know the ethnicity of most of my work friends.
Just asking.

shesus

If this isn't a group that you were assigned to and must stick with you have 2 choices.

A) Have a discussion with the other members and see if they feel the same. Then replace him with someone more compatible or have a group of 3.

B) Leave the group and go it alone or find another study group.

You need to look out for you. You cannot control other people's actions, only your own.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

SabrinaFair

As a 3L about to take her last final this afternoon (!!!!!), I sympathize. My law school is a little less competitive (and is notorious for giving C's), so I've never had to deal with the same amount of pressure, but I know what it's like to have one's entire grade rest upon one final. In a word, it sucks. I'm also not big on study groups, mainly because of the drama. I've had study groups for individual classes, but wasn't a part of one first year except for my legal writing class. My study group for Secured Transactions leaned towards the drama side--what do you expect when you get five stressed out women together, lol. At a certain point, we just had to go our separate ways to avoid killing each other. That being said, you do get along with the rest of your group. Cut the fat. It's a hard lesson to learn, but it applies to multiple facets of life--cut out those who hurt you, or drag you down, or basically suck. The confrontation part sucks, but the end result is worth it.

Good luck with finals, sugar. I'm sure you'll rock them out.

__________________
"With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
-Desiderata

The_Jazz

Yep. Spot on, shesus. Since you created the group, you don't have to worry about getting permission to kick him to the curb if that's what the group decides. But you don't get to unilaterally make this decision; you need to talk to the other members. If they don't agree, you need to either suck it up or find another method to study.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Poppinjay

I say punch him in the neck.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Baraka_Guru

Choose your friends. Do not take company with fools.

Friends help you; fools hold you back.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

KirStang

Hey all,

Thanks for the advice...guess I should try to remove him. I didn't want to kick him out since I would look like an ass and, he is on anti-depressants after all. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

(Also, I feel petulant for feeling so dramatic about his annoying ways).


I put that in there mainly for contextual information.

Eitherway, thank you all for the advice.

tooth

Not your problem. Shouldn't even be a consideration.

Iliftrocks

You are in law school for a reason, if this fellow is being destructive toward you and, your friends, achieving your goals then he must go. It certainly isn't your fault he is depressed, and not your responsibility.

Look, some selfishness is good for you. You started a group to help yourself study. That group also helped others. Constructive selfishness? This person is hindering, not helping. He is destructively selfish. Big difference.

If you feel responsible then point him in the direction of therapy, and time off from school. He shouldn't take you down with him.

__________________
bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

FuglyStick

I used to be that guy. Selfish, belligerent, all around obnoxious.

I had to make a decision not to be that guy anymore. Nobody could tell me anything; I was too pig headed. Once I strained too many relationships, I woke up and decided I needed to change my ways. It takes people distancing themselves from a jackass for the jackass to come to the conclusion that they need to straighten up and fly right.

__________________
AZIZ! LIGHT!

cj2112

Definitely get the rest of the group together and find out if this guy is really a jackass, or if you're just hypersensitive to him. If the group agrees, kick him out. If they don't, then you need to decide if this issue is holding you back. If it is, then you need to find a new group.

genuinegirly

I wouldn't want him in my study group either.
Pretty sure the rest of the group feels the way you do.
Doubt a meeting is necessary - text message, e-mail or phone call will do. Just make sure all three of you want to study without this guy. Then pull the plug.

Sounds like he's going to flunk himself out. He doesn't need to drag your whole group with him.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

fresnelly

Do tell us how it goes. The action here seems cut and dry so I'm really curious what the consequences will be.

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

shesus

Exactly. Have you ever thought that maybe he's using the pills to be able to act that way without taking responsibility? Either way, don't let that play a part in it. Especially since it seems to be his ploy to make people feel sorry for him or forgive him. I don't think anti-depressants have a side-effect for being a jerk. And if the pills are making him act that way, he needs to find a different med.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Poppinjay

Punch him in the neck, then the dick, then the neck again.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Plan9

Yeah, it's all about the econ, bro. Ditch this dude. He's bad for business.

You're training to be a heartless shark (lawyer)... act it.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

snowy

Anti-depressants aren't an excuse for being an asshole. In fact, they should make him less of an asshole if they're really doing their job.

Don't worry about him--you're all adults, and therefore you should all (in theory) be able to take care of yourselves. He'll find a new study group and new people to annoy. You have to focus on you and getting through exams. Talk to your study group without him, see what they have to say, and go from there--based on what you've said, I guarantee they're annoyed too.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Iliftrocks

Um, he's not a gun-nut is he? nevermind

__________________
bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

Plan9

Unnecessary'd!

Hey, you wanna hang out sometime? Sounds like a lot of fun. We can get beers and you can punch me in the ear.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

sunstone

So how did it work out? You never mentioned how the others in your group felt about his behavior or if they even ever mentioned it.

All those that recommended getting him out of the group are right -- sooner rather than later -- and you'll all wish you'd done it even sooner. When you're out in the world and part of a business unit of some kind, you'll find that early open communication among a group about things like this is of ultimate importance. You never want a group to suffer for the sake of one of its members that doesn't conform. One clear and direct warning, then, if no results, cut out the cancer and get the group to focus on its mission. The problem is often that people are just too polite to confront anti-social behavior.

Hope this is close to what happened here.

Plan9

I'm hoping you settled it in the octagon.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ItWasMe

I'm waiting to see how it went.

I was going to add to Shesus's answer: C) you can leave things how they are...and watch your other study buddies leave the group, one by one, for more productive/helpful study groups. You might find yourself left with only the obnoxious one.

__________________
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .


"Ok, no more truth-or-dare until somebody returns my underwear" ~ George Lopez

I bake cookies just so I can lick the bowl. ~ ItWasMe

SSJTWIZTA

i agree.

seriously, get in his face and tell him how it is, and demand that he stops.

either that or kick him out, like so many others have said.


or, there is always this option:

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Glory's Sun

take him to court.

Iliftrocks

Sue is not just a pretty girls name.....

__________________
bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

KirStang

Sorry for the late update all,

The study group did somewhat fall apart. The day after I made my post the Japanese-Colombian guy has a family emergency, so we're down to 3 people only. The Japanese guy needs his space (he's sensitive to pressure) and stays away. So lo and behold, I'm stuck w/ the polish guy.

I just sucked it up. Exams are over now....and I'm far, far away from Baltimore.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm gonna be much more careful about membership in the future.