genuinegirly

Calling all TFP parents!

We all hear about how having a child drastically changes one's life, whether due to the additional commitment required and time constraints, or in some cases because of an enlightenment that hits as you hold your first child.

What do you recommend doing before having children?

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Where I'm coming from:

Tt and I have been married now for 3 months, and we're not planning on spawning for 5 years (much to his mother's dismay). In the meantime, we'd like to make sure we've done everything we're supposed to do before having kids, so we don't sit back and say "Oh, crap, I wish we'd thought of that last year." Been asking family members and friends with kids what they recommend fitting in. Some suggestions have been silly, others made me pause to think:

-Travel! Traveling with young children is not fair to the child, they become little more than extra baggage since they are not likely to remember their experiences.

- Complete your education. Pursuing graduate studies with children makes life more complicated than it needs to be.

- Teach your spouse to do the laundry.

- Spend time with friends.

- Develop a nest egg for child-related expenses.

- Get settled into a home and a community, someplace you will feel comfortable for the long-term.

- Watch other people's children (babysit) so you know what you're getting yourself into.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Daniel_

Frommy own personal experience, there is no right time to have kids. There is no list of things that you can't do with them in your life.

You want to trek round India? I know kids that grew up like that in the 70's and they're fine as adults.

You want to climb mountains? My brother took his daughter with him when he climbed Mont Blanc (she was 11).

The only thing I would say is - make sure you have a support network in place. (Re)build family relationships before the baby comes. Make friends locally - once you have a baby join everything going and build a web of contacts. If you need a night off, knowing 10 people who might help is way better than only having one.

Take plenty of time off from your child - it doesn't make you a bad parent to have a "mummy and daddy night" each month (even though my ex-wife thought so).

EDIT

Sorry - forgot to say that the comment about not travelling with kids is bollocks. No child remembers what happened in their early infancy, but we n't leave them in the basement and for good reason (OK - I don't have a basement, but you know what I mean). Kids re formed by their experiences and there is a clear correlation between kids that have various experiences and those with more experience have a greater confidence - I know this from my own family.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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jewels

Sleep would be my only recommendation that I see as missing from your list. Revel in it.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

abaya

For us, all of the above... plus developing a real desire to have kids. We're still working on that one. It doesn't come naturally. We don't want kids "just because," or that it "just happened." We want them to be on purpose, at the right time (or at least a better time than right now), and we want to be when I miss my first period, not devastated.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

snowy

I will absolutely agree with this. I traveled a lot as a kid, and it taught me a lot. I might not remember specifics of what we did or where, but all of the experiences were valuable for what they taught me, especially in regards to manners and etiquette. Of course, there is a downside to this. The anecdote: Every year my dad had to attend a conference for his profession, and the whole family went as well as many of our family friends and their children (who worked with Dad); every year the conference ended with a fancy dinner that the kids didn't get to go to, so we would stay at the hotel with our babysitters (daughters of a coworker). One year I took the babysitters and our friends to the cafe in the hotel to get ice cream, told them to get whatever they wanted, and charged it to the room. My mom thinks I was 9 or so. Moral: Sometimes your kids will turn out to be more savvy than perhaps you want them to be.

And as a nanny, the kids who have traveled more--whether it's to accompany their parents on business trips or to visit family/friends far away, whatever--are much better behaved in public. It's easier to take them places around town than those kids who haven't traveled as much. They have better manners, better knowledge of etiquette, and a better idea of how to be safe.

My main goal prior to having children is to make sure we're in a stable enough place to do so. I want us to own our own home, have good health insurance, and make sure we have enough laid by in case of emergency. We're not even close to that place right now, and that's fine.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Glory's Sun

the only thing I would add (and yes I have two wonderful children) is to buy a bunch of birth control or get an IUC

sapiens

I agree with Daniel_. There is no right time to have kids. There's always something to be done. Finish school, get job, buy house, pay off cars, become partner in firm.

I worked with a woman who thought that it was strange that we traveled with our daughter. "She won't even remember it." She might not remember some of the trips we took, but I do and I'm glad we traveled with our daughter.

Family and friend support is really helpful. Both for emergencies and for occasional babysitting. We currently live far away from family and lack a local network of friends. It makes life a bit more difficult.

curiousbear

I dont have kids. I dont feel like I want them. So I would say try to understand as clearly as possible why you want to go for kids.

One very good reason (advise) give by a girl who was much younger to me was "One need to bear and rear children in order to go through all phases of life cycle in completeness".
-----Added 18/9/2008 at 04 : 48 : 18-----
yes I saw people in Mt Rainier doing hiking and trekking with thier babies and kids... I thought they are cool!

abaya

On the travel thing: YES. I have flown internationally since I was in diapers, and it has never left my blood. No, I don't remember a damn thing from the 2 month hippie road trip around Europe that my parents took me on when I was 3, but I don't think it was wasted on me, either. I have never stopped traveling, as long as I've had the time and money to do so, and I don't intend that to change when we have kids (having family in 5 countries also enforces that we MUST travel!).

However, I think gg's point is that having kids CHANGES your traveling, more than a little! And yeah, ktsp and I are traveling as much as we can, on our own, for all those things that we won't be able to do when we have kids... just the sheer lack of responsibility that we have while traveling together in our late 20s, child-free, is incomparable. We look forward to traveling with our kids, too... but it will be different, and that's okay... when it happens.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

lotsofmagnets

from my own experience my dad 1st took me on serious trips when i was 5 and it has definitely had a strong affect on who i grew up to be and i do remember quite a lot from when i traveled at age 5 (my brother was 3 at the time so he remembers little to none of the same trip) so i´m adding my voice to the travel with kids is a good thing chorus.

__________________
mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor.
she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron.
physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

little_tippler

It's funny how several of your things to do are related to then having children after them. That would not cross my mind. I was thinking more what 10 wild or fun things I'd do before I decided to have kids. But I guess it wouldn't be sensible.

I have no kids yet and no prospect of any for a while yet, but here is what I'd like to do before I've had kids:

- have a stable income and a thriving, dynamic career

- have a lot of sex in random, exciting places

- travel to faraway places (of course! sure it's great with kids too, I have some friends my age who do this with their two baby girls, they go to India and places like that, hiking in the jungle! I have done some travelling already but more would be great.)

- buy my own house

- spend time with friends is also on my list

- learn to dance Salsa properly

- go to lots of rock concerts and music festivals

- save up some more money

- read lots of great books

- finish my masters

- live in a different country at least once

- learn to surf well

I suppose closer to the "main event" I might consider doing some child-geared things too. But not a moment before. I'm not ready to have kids yet really. I'm such a child, I just want to have fun heh.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

ASU2003

Have the people that have traveled with kids ever traveled without them?

I would never take a one to four year old hiking to the river at the Grand Canyon for instance. There are some trips that are just too hard and not suitable for kids. There were families with kids in the hostels outside of Sydney, but not in Kings Cross, and I'm sure they didn't stay up until 2am. It would be a different trip, not that it would be bad. Just a lot more work to look after them. There is also the cost aspect as well. All of a sudden, you are spending money that could be used for their college fund.

Oh yeah, and they need a passport to get into the USA. I talked to the wife of a Canadian Parliament member who had a 2 month old terrorist baby that immigration wouldn't let into the country.

When kids are 8 to 16, travel can return to what it used to be though. But you may be too old to do a few things that are set up for people in their 20's-30's.

Redlemon

I would say "adult travel". Things like wine tasting tours. Also, nude beaches. The last trip before we began to achieve pregnancy was to Grand Lido Negril in Jamaica, which was both elegant and had a wonderful nude beach.

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

genuinegirly

So glad all of you spoke up that had wonderful experiences traveling as children!! You would not believe how opposed some friends of mine are to the concept of travel with children. It is good to hear that you have benefited from your experiences abroad. My husband and I enjoy traveling a lot, but our method of traveling will change by necessity when we have children. Typically our travel involves backpacks, greuling hikes, little food, and more than a little time in adverse weather without a roof. So, yes... little hikes with little kids would be nice, and maybe even a week-long backpacking trip would be great, but a month of sleeping on streets and trails might not be the best for a child's health.

Little_tippler, what a great list!

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

ItWasMe

If you are going to backpack with the kids, make sure they are still light enough to carry if they are not going to walk on their own.

I would say a big thing is having a home big enough, with a payment that won't kill you when you add kid expenses such as childcare, diapers, clothes. Whether you decide to use childcare or to have one breadwinner while the other stays home, figure out what the budget would be and try actually living on that budget for a minimum of 6 months. Pretend that you have the expenses already. What you pretend to be spending on childcare, diapers, etc, put into a savings account. If you are going to try living on one income for a while, bank the other income while you are still earning it. It's a great reality check before actually having the kids, and will give you a little nest egg for emergencies or for "initial essentials" like high chairs, cribs, etc.

We often do this for 3 months before adding expenses like a new vehicle or home improvement loans.

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"Ok, no more truth-or-dare until somebody returns my underwear" ~ George Lopez

I bake cookies just so I can lick the bowl. ~ ItWasMe

genuinegirly

Oooo what a nifty trick!

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

curiousbear

also live out the extreme fantasies if any ... which could be different to try once you are mamma and pappa

echo5delta

I am totally LOVING this thread.

My ex-wife and I broached this subject before we were even engaged; it was a lot easier to move forward knowing that she didn't want any kids for a few years after tying the knot as well.

Lazy Sundays lying in bed, reading the paper, enjoying "you" time? probably not so much after kids. As well as a ton of other things, most of which have already been mentioned.

I do have to add my two cents on the travel portion. I highly recommend involving the kids when you take trips, especially to really special places.

I grew up as an Army brat, so my sister and I were basically forced into traveling a lot at an early age. The ride was definitely not worth the price of admission (14 different schools before graduating high school. Ugh.).

HOWEVER... due to the travel experience, my knowledge of geography was miles ahead of most of my peers as early as 6th or 7th grade. Knowing that there's a hell of a lot more to the city of Amsterdam than hookers and weed takes on a whole new meaning when that comes from personal experience - before age 12.

Then again, you probably want to get that all-inclusive visit (or two, or three) to Hedonsim out of the way before childcare becomes a necessary expense.

It's all a tradeoff, but dragging along the kids will definitely pay off in some ways later on down the road.

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"Peace" is when nobody's shooting. A "Just Peace" is when we get what we want. - Bill Mauldin

digme

Whenever I see these types of topics, I can't shake the feeling that life is pretty much over after you have a kid. It seems like all fun is over after you have one.

The people I know that have had them support that theory. Hence, I am having a hard time getting excited about having one.