Jinn

This is a really introspective question for you men out there, so please take the time to consider it before saying "cause you're a man" or "cuz you got testosterone."

I'm really curious if anyone can give an intellectual answer for why I like depictions of these things:

Gangsta rap (rap movies and music)
Big black men with guns (rap movies)
Movies with bank robberies, heists, kidnapping, murder, physical violence, competition, arson (every action movie ever made)
Explosions, car crashes, car races (Every action movie ever made, Grand Theft Auto)
Sexualized imagery (every movie ever made)
Assault rifles (Rambo, Terminator, God of War)
Stealing cars or driving them really fast (Gone in Sixty Seconds, Fast and the Furious, etc..)
Male heroism

I intellectually know that these things are not conducive towards creating an equal society, and they serve to denigrate women and objectify them. They serve to justify hyper-masculinity and aggression, neither of which is conducive to civil society. I know that they encourage domestic violence and criminal behavior, too. I know that women don't enjoy these movies as much, as that a male dominated society that continues to produce these sorts of things alienates women and makes them feel that what they want to see isn't important and that they just have to play along. Grand Theft Auto IV releasing today is a perfect example. I'm excited to play it, despite my reservations about the sexualization as a male feminist, I still want to play it.

So why do I enjoy them? I shouldn't, knowing what I know conciously. Why do you, the reader, enjoy them?

Is it really so simple as socialization and testosterone?

I'm posing this question because I was asked "Why do men need to put sex [and violence] everywhere and in everything? Isn't porn enough?"

I'm not really sure how to answer the question. It's like I know I shouldn't, but I do, sometimes.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

vanblah

In answer to the question you were asked, "Why do men need to put sex [and violence] everywhere ..."

I don't think that "men" really do ... sex and violence (and pretty much anything controversial) sells. As long as people are buying it and/or talking about it ... it's going to be used as a sales tool. Women use sex to sell just as readily (if not moreso) than men.

With regard to why do we watch it or look at it. I would say that watching violent scenes is a form of schadenfreude. (<-link to definition.)

As far as sex goes ... we like sex and for the most part we want to watch it. And there are PLENTY of women who watch porn and are not turned off by it.

It is (or can be) as simple as socialization when you get right down to it.

Shauk

no one can speak for you, I can only speak for myself, so here goes.

I dont, I find it an insult to humanity.
I don't care for big white men with guns either, (Rambo) I think guns are lame

because in most of these movies it represents a struggle of good vs evil, which is very thematic in our society, rooted in our instinct for survival, and prevalent in popular religion. Not that I like it, per se, but that I empathize with the theme of it.

probably just adrenaline value, and product placement.

mmmm boobies.

oh are these the ones without the big black guys listed above?

because without it, they'd be making a movie about legal racing. and breaking the law is just so much cooler. To be honest, I watched Gone in 60 for angelina cuz I <3 her.

this one I find to be just a result of socialization. Men have always been expected to be the "bread winners" the ones who went to war, the comic book action hero, physical team sports where they come out on top (football, wrestling, boxing) women's rights are still fairly "new" in the overall lifespan of civilization.


and thats my 2 cents

Ustwo

I will answer this with a on the surface seemingly unrelated anecdote.

My wife and I are slobs. Our house is often an embarrassment we wouldn't want people to be over in. Its not that we can't keep it clean, we have in the past but that was due to an external motivation. Left to our own devices we don't care much.

I accept this. At some point it reaches a level where I just clean it up. For me cleaning involves a lot of throwing stuff away and putting things in boxes. Its crude yet effective.

My wife on the other hand wants to be organized. She doesn't want to put that pile in a box but go through it all first, so she knows where everything is and that its all packed away with maximum efficiency. The problem is she is messy like me and quickly loses interest in the task, end result is nothing gets done.

She feels guilty shes not more like her parents who are very organized people, well the other day we had a bit of a talk about it.

What we decided was rather than fight our natures embrace it. Not embrace the messy side of it, there are very good reasons not to be messy, but to embrace the lack of organization and accept we are not even remotely anal when it comes to the day to day stuff. Its better to have all the placemats in a drawer than on the counter waiting to be sorted.

Her guilt over not being better about it, made this difficult but this has been going on for years, she finally admitted she is what she is and to work with her nature to its advantage rather than fight it. It was an epiphany of sorts.

Its important to understand your nature, but in the context of working with it. I enjoy movies where things explode and chicks show their tits. Not at the same time mind you, and the more plot twists the better, if I can guess whats coming next, its a boring movie. Its my nature. My wife likes chick flicks and reads romance novels. They are no more realistic than my titty explosion movies, but its her nature, she likes those.

I don't feel guilty over liking titty explosion movies, there is nothing wrong with liking that bit of fiction. It doesn't cause me to go out and rape cheerleaders while blowing up their parents homes.

I only feel guilty over wrongs I have done to people in deed, and those are few and far between. Some were completely unintentional but they still make me feel guilty because I DID it, I don't worry about thought crimes.

Worry about what you do to people, not if you should be liking a movie.

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QuasiMondo

It's simple. Our lives are boring. Most of us will never be involved in a shootout with the police, terrorists, or even an angry neighbor. We'll never have this kind of exciting life, and we'll probably never know what to do with ourselves if we ever were in a situation.

It's fun to imagine firing a big gun out of the fast car with a hot girl in the passenger seat. It brings us the excitement that we know we'll never achieve.

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Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Jinn

I really appreciate that everyone thus far has approached it seriously, and I like the anecdote, Ustwo - it's always nice to see a little bit of personality.

That said, I agree with you in staying true to our nature, and it's not that I dislike my "nature" as a man or somehow feel guilty for liking the things I do. We're different in that I extend my 'guilt' further than you. I can't be content knowing that the only things I'm responsible for are the things which I directly influence. You and I would feel bad for directly harming someone, physically or mentally, or deliberately being sexist or racist to them. However, I also feel guilty about the role that I play in perpetuating bad things. How can I be "true to my nature", knowing that by consuming things I am directly encouraging companies to market towards men, to marginalize women, and even to normalize and desensitize sexual violence? If I didn't buy their things, they wouldn't make as much profit, and my hands are clean of the negative socialization of young men and women..

I want games and movies that women like to be more popular, I want women to think that they can grow up and be succesful without objectifying themselves, I want young women feel like they can to go into math and science instead of being a trophy wife, and I want women to feel like they can take care of themselves and not be the victim of sexual assault. I also want men to feel like they can grow up without being hyper-masculine sex-machines with air for brains who use anger and physical force to solve conflicts. But I know that buying Grand Theft Auto IV or Girls Gone Wild or Bangbus or Penthouse or
Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball or Exit Wounds does nothing for this goal, and actually serves to harm it by normalizing the opposite - women as always willing sex objects and men as angry protectors.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

CandleInTheDark

I find it interesting that you regard 'male heroism' as equal to depictions of crime, rape, and violence. The other items on you list can be reasoned away to flights of fancy, as simply wanting to experience something outside of you beliefs and normal life. But male heroism? I'd hardly call it antithetical to a just and equal society.

I have written on this before, but feminism is not conducive to producing mentally healthy men, nor is 'hyper-masculinity'. That you perceive masculinity as automatically being a Bad Thing disturbs me.

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lotsofmagnets

guess i´m not man enough to like any of those things. but then again i was bought up outside of peer pressure.

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mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor.
she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron.
physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?