thespian86

Ignoring the arguments already made I'll answer the OP Jinn:

1) I would try my best to elect officials that would help me, I would surround myself with people who don't like to shoot me, I would live in a neighborhood where it seems i won't get shot, I will do my best to avoid it.

Etc...

BUT, I don't plan to carry weapons. If anything, I would be more afraid of myself overreacting to a situation and doing something that would likely scar me for life, and ruin said life. Killing someone, even in self defense, would likely be too difficult for me; I'm pretty sure I can avoid death, and if I can't then I guess life got the best of me. Killing a person or people is not worth it.

2) Within the law.

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ottopilot

Very interesting thread. Most of the concerns, solutions, attitudes, and coping strategies are understandable ... we ultimately need to be comfortable with our decisions.

For me it is absolutely prudent to plan ahead, take precautions, be aware, be vigilant. If push comes to shove, property is not life and not worth defending with your life... especially if you are unsure of your ability to contain the situation. How I defend my country, rights, and freedom is an obligation compulsory depending on the cause and events.

However, if I should perceive a threat of injury or experience an attack from any individual upon my family, myself, or innocent victims, I intend to use all measures available to eliminate the threat without hesitation or mercy. It's how I have rationalized my priorities and how I intend to act ... admittedly, we never know how we respond to danger until tested. I've witnessed attacks without reason or mercy. You can never assume an armed or menacing criminal doesn't intend to harm you or worse.

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ItWasMe

When I threw my kids behind my bed to hide, I did not join them, btw. I was hidden elsewhere, with a clear shot at the only entrance to the top of the stairs, and with my children completely out of the line of fire. My husband was gone with the army, and later told me that I was his hero.

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Jinn

A new entry on the blotter; this morning at 2 am, in my "safe" city:

I bet she didn't think it would happen to her. "Less than 2% chance", after all.

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Willravel

Don't be a baby.
http://pittsburgh.about.com/library/..._powerball.htm

I'll bet she didn't think it would happen to her. "Less than .0001% chance", after all.

Jinn

Touché..

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surferlove007

Just thought of something.
My neighbors a few houses down from my parents place own the largest house in the neighborhood, roughly 8,000 square feet. Our house is up there for being large at around 5,000 so maybe thats why they targeted these people. Well these folks owned a jewelry store. A former customer found out where they lived, came and dressed up as police officers were able to get them to open their front door and then from there they tied them up, ransacked the house all the while the neighbors didn't notice anything was going on.

Willravel

Just as a general rule of thumb, don't ever let cops in without a warrant. And when they arrive with the warrant, verify it.

surferlove007

Yea no joke, I bet they'll think twice next time.

abaya

Just another reason to have a small apartment/condo with nothing worth stealing inside. And if someone was just going to tie me up (or put a bag over my head) while they stole the extremely non-valuable items from my house, well then go right ahead... probably doing me a favor, in the end. I always wish I had fewer belongings. Anyway, property is not worth fighting for, or being afraid of losing... if it were that important, then it would be locked up in a safe deposit box or would have theft insurance covering it.

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World's King

Anyone that worries about crap like this is overtly paranoid.


I defend myself, property and my family by not putting them into stupid fuckin' situations where something bad might happen.

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Glory's Sun

Will.. do you really think your home is impossible to break into?? That's pretty naive.

If I have to defend my property or family.. I will defend it with complete and utter chaos. Whatever it takes it takes. If I have to slit a throat so be it.

That being said, I try (like everyone else) not to put people in those situations, but it doesn't really matter where you live or how you live.. there is always a possibility of harm being done.

If you try to take my alcohol.. I'll probably defend it like I defend my family

Willravel

All I said was that it's difficult to get into and probably not worth it. The house does not look expensive, and my car is 12 years old (and it looks like it might belong to a high school student). I close my blinds and shades before leaving for work every day, so they can't see my flat screen or stereo equipment, or my old eMac. The front yard is quite exposed and the back yard has a beagle in it that barks like it's going out of style when there's an intruder.

Add to all this the fact that San Jose has such a low rate of crime and it paints a clear picture: it's so unlikely that it's not worth planning for beyond basic measures. It's certainly not worth having a firearm, which I don't believe in.

telekinetic

Do you have deadbolts or auxilery locks that can't easily be defeated? Every time I hear you post about how impenetrable your fortress is I think of my locksmith uncle showing me how to make and use a bump key...and that's if you don't have the $50 to buy a snap gun.

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Glory's Sun

all I'm saying is try not to be in too much shock if/when it happens (I'm not wishing it on you..don't take it that way) doesn't matter if it looks expensive or not.. houses in the ghetto get robbed too.

Willravel

My outer deadbolts (the deadbolts on the security screen doors) were installed by a locksmith and he assured me that they're quite difficult to get through. I didn't just buy my locks at Orchard Supply or something, if that's what you think. I don't see much use in a lock if it's easy to pick.

I have had my car broken into. It was frustrating, considering that the police basically didn't care, but all they got was a $100 sony deck and some burned CDs.

Slims

Will, I am willing to bet you $100 that I can get into your house in less than 2 seconds using my friendly sledge hammer. Even the best lock on the best door will fail when it is punched straight through the doorframe.

That being said, if you don't feel you need a firearm, then nobody should try to force one upon you. All I want is the same respect given to my desire to be able to actively defend myself and my wife if necessary.

Punkmusicfan: I am not suggesting that you make a trip to the gun store, but I believe your reasons given are a little naive. I have shot people, and have yet to lose sleep over it. Before I was in a real fight I was worried about how I would feel, but knowing that the people I have shot were trying to kill me makes it very difficult for me to feel guilty. I don't know anyone who has felt the kind of life-shattering remorse you are describing from shooting an assailant.

Also, Why would you trust a stranger more than yourself? I don't mean to pick at you in particular, as this is a repeating theme in these sorts of discussions. Many people often say something to the effect of "I would never be able to make that decision" or "I am more worried that I would shoot the wrong person." When you get behind the wheel of a car do you find yourself swerving into innocent bystanders just because you can? Having a firearm does not mean you are going to use it against an innocent person unless you are 1: a criminal, 2: mentally unstable, or 3: on some really good drugs. Personally speaking, if someone has to make a life and death decision concerning my life, I want to be the one to make it.

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Willravel

Again, I've got security screens and security doors. And the sledgehammer would even have trouble with the windows. During the demo before I bought them, the guy had the window horizontal and I jumped up and down on it in boots. Maybe if you threw it like an olympian?

And I forgot to mention neighborhood watch. Someone might be inclined to call the police if they saw someone throwing around hammers like they were Thor in my front or back yard.
I'm not going to actively prevent people from getting guns, but I do want to make sure that they don't think that guns are magical tools that can save you and your children and that only pose a threat to "bad guys". I also want people to know that there are better alternatives.

telekinetic

You're a clever guy, you should try making a bump key for it and seeing if you can unlock it.

How to make a bump key, and use it to defeat a deadbolt in seconds:


(this line of discussion, and this video in particular, while slightly tangential, is VERY pertinent to "defending property and family", as it demonstrates why locks only keep honest people honest)

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Cynthetiq

So if there is a fire in your house, the fire department cannot vent your house via breaking glass? They can't knock down your door in case of a fire emergency?

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Willravel

That's something I considered. The security doors were installed long before I moved in (I think mid 90s) and I asked the previous owners about it. As I recall, they simply told me not to have a fire. I laughed at the time, but it's the reason I have a smoke detector in every room in the house, including closets. There's also a fire extinguisher in the kitchen and the garage.

Ustwo

So you do not support gun control/banning legislation?

I find that very noble of you to support someones rights, even if you yourself do not believe in them.

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Willravel

Voting is a bit tricky. One can always vote to add an amendment which could negate the Second Amendment.

Let's just say if I were put in a governmental position where I myself had to make the determination as to whether one could or could not have a weapon, I would have to concede to the Second Amendment.

LoganSnake

If I am ever in a position to own a large house, you better believe it will be outfitted with bulletproof windows and doors. Nobody would be getting in unless I want them to. Old habits.

If the fire department can break into my house, so can anyone else. I wouldn't have that.

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powerclown

Willravel

powerclown, I'm 180 lbs. and I was jumping up and down with boots on the window laid out flat. The sales woman said (paraphrasing) "They're not bulletproof, but they'll stop most anything else". I've seen them take a fastball and a shovel without even getting scratched.

powerclown

I think you need some fresh air will.

Manic_Skafe

Why don't you move in to a bunker? At least that way you'll know for a fact that you're protected from ze germans.

Because of my work, I have a shotgun permit and will soon enough have license to carry a handgun (such a hassle in NY state) - however, none of these weapons will ever enter my home.

I don't live in the safest of neighborhoods and crime isn't exactly nonexistent around here but I'd much rather live knowing fully that I'm not prepared against everything (as if I ever could be) than have the fear of xyz control my life.

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LoganSnake

Did I mention that I don't trust the typical American "wooden plank" houses? I like bricks and cement.

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Willravel

You're welcome to venture out to a company that installs double and triple pane windows and ask yourself. For the time being, you should bear in mind that a layman's understanding of glass and windows is doing you a disservice.

telekinetic

You're right for the wrong reason. Double and triple pane windows don't add any security, they add insulation, UNLESS they ALSO have security film, which, from the sound of your demo, yours do. This might be why you're getting arguement, since you've been playing up the multi-pane-ness and not the security film

Even single pane windows with security film are a good barrier:



(first scene is a door with no film for comparison)

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Willravel

I forgot about that. Yes, it has said film.

thespian86

wait, can I change what I said to say that?

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m0rpheus

Maybe it's just because I live in a city with a great response time, but if someone breaks into my home 9-1-1 is going to be my first thought. Considering my cell is 99.9% of the time within arms reach its a pretty easy number to remember.

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Cynthetiq

like i said will... why then not have the bars on the window? they keep criminals out and you can open your windows...

most counties have restrictions on those because of fire reasons, and your security film windows seem to fall under those restrictions. You're trapped in your home if there's a fire and you can't get out the windows.

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Willravel

Here's a crazy question: why wouldn't I be able to open any of my windows? I've got like 15 windows. And 4 doors. And I can't get to any of them? Or they're all simultaneously jammed or "melted"? None of my windows are jammed now, and my doors aren't just fine... they're fireproof. Not to mention we can get out through the basement. It seems a bit extreme to think that the only way to get out would be to break a window.

Also, I think this is becoming a threadjack. If you're interested in continuing in a new thread, that'd be my pleasure.

/threadjack

Cynthetiq

not really a threadjack will, since it's how you're defending your family, you've also got to consider getting out in case of an emergency. The emergency may be in your own home. Is California a retreat to the bedroom state? It wasn't when I was living there.

We recently had an elderly lady beaten and robbed right in front of her front door. We have 24 hour guards, and low crime rate. How did the assailant get in? She let him in. That's the weakest link to all security.

One of the other things that I think most people don't concern themselves about when "winterizing" or insulating is that there's a natural amount of air that should circulate. This helps remove the issues of carbon monoxide poisoning and radon poisoning.

Fire usually don't kill people, smoke inhalation does.

As far as I'm concerned, in NYC I don't have any weapons at my disposal. Living in CA, I had a 9MM, Mossberg hand cannon, and other weapons. I always pick up a weapon knowing that it is a possiblity that someone may not live depending on how I handle that weapon, responsibly and irresponsibly.

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Willravel

Can we get out in case of an emergency? Yes. All 15 windows open and the screens pop right out. Not only that, but I've got 4 doors. And a basement. That's 20 exits.

As for smoke inhalation,
And I have iCal remind me every 6 months to check the batteries.

What is a "retreat to bedroom state"?

Slims

Actually Will, I don't believe you can remove any part of the bill of rights, only add to them. The bill of rights enumerates rights that are INALIENABLE and thus, exist whether they are legislated or not. The government that tries to remove them is a government that needs to be overthrown.

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"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

Willravel

It's not removal, but rather negation. One can negate an amendment by creating a new one.

"Inalienable" rights is another way to say, "I can't actually argue that this is a right based on it's merits." If we were actually born with inalienable rights, why would we need to write them down and enforce them?