hambone

Any suggestions? My wife and I want to make a trip to Europe in August '08 to celebrate her completion of law school and the Bar exam.

We have been looking at various tours groups (like Contiki, for example) as well as thinking of doing it on our own. She has been to Europe before and loved it. I have never been outside the US (save for Mexico and Canada) and really wanna go anywhere over there.

We found a trip for 10 days with Virgin Vacations that does Paris (3 days), London (3 days) and Rome (3 days) that looks good. It seems a good price for hotels and flight, though its not guided so you gotta pay for all extra stuff.

I am open to any and all advice or suggestions regarding price and experience. The only downside really to the trip mentioned above is I kinda wanted to go to Munich since she hasn't really been there and it would be fun. But Paris/Rome/London are also all places I would love to see.

This may be the last chance we have before starting to have kids and whatnot, so we wanna make the best of it.

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The_Jazz

Western Europe? I got nothin'. If Eastern Europe is in bounds, I've got lots. There are lots of fantastic places to see in Russia, Poland etc. English is easily found in the big cities.

About 8 years ago, St. Petersburg to Beijing via train (2nd class) including tours, lodging, at least 1 meal a day (sometimes all 3) and transport to and from all trains and planes was about $500 for a 3 week trip.

Again, for Western Europe, I've got nothing nearly as spectacular.

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hambone

Hmm, interesting. We can only do about 14 days MAX due to work and other obligations. My wife has never been to Eastern Europe at all, so she may want to go, though last I asked she really wanted to see Paris again.

Keep em coming

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abaya

Paris, London, and Rome are good starter cities if you've never been to Europe before, though they're of course more overrun by tourists than most other places you could visit. Will you be taking trains or planes between cities? If at all possible, I recommend at least staying a couple of nights in the Cinque Terre, on Italy's Ligurian (NW) coast... perhaps on your way to Rome.

Do you like sitting on tour buses with groups of your fellow Americans for the duration of the trip, however? I've done it (when I was 15), but wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole now. It really depends on how you like to travel, how comfortable you want to be, how much money you want to spend, how much organizing you want to do yourself (or if you want it all taken care of), etc.

In my experience, doing the "tour group" thing is actually much more expensive than doing it yourself (and you experience much less of local culture), but DIY is more of a pain in the ass if you don't like handling details and you'd rather stay a bit insulated within your own language/group.

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hambone

Abaya,

I suck at traveling (this is an assumption, since I have no experience ). But my wife is wonderful at it. I don't really want the whole tour bus all the time thing. I don't want to spend too much money, but am willing to splurge a bit.

Here is a link to the one that seems perfect as of now:
<a href="http://www.virgin-vacations.com/site_vv/pub_detail.asp-iDept-333-id-11031-iFrom-7/10/2008-k-1033">Link</a>

If you hit the price this package button you can see all the stuff available.

I am extremely excited to go, just want to make sure we make the most of it, without it being super stressful.

thanks.

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"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
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maleficent

I'm probably one ofthe few people who didn't find the charm of london - to me it was dirty, smelly and overcrowded - Just didn't do anything for me..


Prague is an amazing city and a quick cheap flight from london or paris (europe has, last I checked Ryan air and another cheapie airline that will take you to various cities for a really miniscule price.. you just have to make sure you don't' have a ton of luggage.

Brussels was another beautiful city and a high speed train from London.

outside of london was canterbury (of chaucer's canterbry tales and canterbury cathedral - a nice day trip)

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abaya

Oh, I love Canterbury. It's especially convenient on the way to crossing the English channel... if you're willing to cross by ferry.

Hambone--will check out your site in a bit, gotta grab some dinner.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

The_Jazz

I agree with the tour groups point. My trip to Russia and points east was with two of my best friends. We met people along the way but all went our separate ways at the next point.

I did an organized tour of Edinburgh a few years ago and NEVER AGAIN. I've never been less proud to be an American. It was like being with Flounder from "Animal House" for a day - fat, drunk, stupid and needy crammed into a small bus. Ugh.

My best suggestion if you're going to Western Europe: pick a destination country, fly into the major airport then head out from there to whatever catches your eye. My wife and I flew to Naples a few years ago, drove down to Tuscany (and only rented the car because we had to pick someone up on the way who wasn't able to easily get to a train station), returned the car the same day in Florence, then took the train to Siena and a taxi to the villa where we were all staying. We took daytrips from there. That was with a group of between 6 and 10 (depending on the day), but it works just as well with only two. If you want to change your base of operations every few days, that's easily accomplished with an overnight train ride.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

hambone

Jazz,

Great, that sounds kinda like what we want. The trip I linked to isn't a tour thing at all, just a package of flight + hotel, and it changes from London to Paris to Rome after every 3 days, with a train ride between them (also part of the package).

All sightseeing, tours, meals is up to us, which I think will be half the fun anyway. I am a little concerned about not being able to communicate well in Rome and Paris, but I hope they will have mercy on a dumb american.

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snowy

Learn a few stock phrases in French, like how to order your food and so on, and you'll be surprised at how much better you will be treated. Furthermore, don't dress like an ugly American The Europeans dress a lot better than we do, and if you're not backpacking it, there's no reason for you to wear jeans every day--you will stick out like a sore thumb.

I loved Paris. The people were surprisingly nice (because I TRIED to speak French) and the food is simply amazing. Even the simplest sandwich tastes better in Paris. I really love the chicken sandwiches you can find a million different places in Paris. You can eat very cheaply in Paris if you need to--just grab some fresh baguette, some cheese, maybe some fruit, and a bottle of wine. Since it will be summer when you go there, it's the perfect picnic season.

Be prepared to take a hit to your wallet with the current exchange rate. The package deal is probably your best bet right now given the cost.

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Hain

I am over here right now. Been mentioned, I will say it again - Ryanair is a great way to book dirt cheap tickets - http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/

Then there is hostel world... I don't know what kind of accommodations you are looking for. It is easy for me since I am with a large group of people. Another goodie for finding a cheap way to travel. http://www.hostelworld.com/

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shoegirl

I agree! I loved Paris so much. Much more than London. I went on a trip almost 2 years ago - to Paris, Brussels, and London and it was a blast! Just hop on a train from one location to the next. Let us know what cities you pick, then we can get into specifics.

jorgelito

Forget Western Europe. Dollar is weak right now. Instead, go for Croatia, Dalmatian coast, Albania, Czech Republic etc. It's perfect cause it's still relatively new and not quite overrun yet, also cheap cause not on the Euro and also good cause your wife hasn't been there so it can be your thing together.

The Europeans are awful dressers - everything is way too tight and feminine. European guys are kind of small and tiny except the Germans. Just dress comfortably and don't worry about conformity.

abaya

Hambone... the trip you linked to is actually pretty decently priced, I'm impressed. I also like the fact that it's not a tour, it's just lodging and transportation... it leaves the rest to you to figure out, which is half the fun. Sounds pretty good to me, if you really want to see those 3 cities in particular (though personally, I am dying to see Eastern Europe, but you gotta start somewhere).

My only concern is the date you chose... that's freaking high season, you can't get much higher... which means all those cities are going to be CRAWLING with other tourists underfoot. The weather will be good (most likely), but still... having so many other tourists can get really old. I recommend going during the shoulder season, for example in May (when there's a cheaper trip, anyway)--that way you have a *little* more space for yourselves (still lots of tourists, but significantly less than in high summer). But again, entirely up to you. Waiting in long lines to see the big sights, though, is not really that fun.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

amonkie

I've made 2 trips to Europe (3.5 weeks in Italy, 4 weeks based in Frankfort, Germany), with a 10 day trip to Amsterdam also set for Spring Break in March 2008.

I've been fortunate to avoid staying in hotels on my prior 2 trips, but for my amsterdam stay, my hotel is 37 Euro per night, and is an old Franciscan monastery that has been converted into a hotel. These less commercialized places, I've found, tend to be the most rewarding in terms of ADDING to your experience.

My sister and mom and 2 friends made a trip to Europe this summer, and their one piece of advice is find a good travel Agent. They are INVALUABLE for at least learning of little secrets, and places to go based on your home base camps. In some cases, the costs were cheaper through the travel agent than online. Definitely worth at least a phone call to check out.

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abaya

Oh, not sure if I'm allowed to advertise this here, but tripadvisor.com is a really great resource. We found some stellar deals there for our trip to Italy in October, and the reviews are invaluable (especially if you are basically on your own for planning accommodation, etc).

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

hambone

Thanks for all the advise. We were thinking of looking for a travel agent as well. That link has people you can call to talk to and stuff, but still need to look around.

I have seen tripadvisor briefly, but now will look more into it.

And sadly, we can't do much about the dates. That timeframe marks when she finishes taking the Bar exam, and right before we have to be back for some weddings and (hopefully) her starting a job.

Seems like many would rather see Eastern Europe, but I think my personal preference would be Western, despite all the points made above, simply cause I have never been to Europe and would like to see Paris and Rome if possible.

__________________
"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

flstf

I think the whole month of August is vacation time for many Europeans and they like to get out of the cities and avoid the tourist madness. It may not be so bad now with the weak dollar.

The best trips to Europe we took was flying into a major city and using a Eurail pass (unlimited train travel) and making our own plans. Something like Amsterdam to Paris to Rome to Naples, Florence and Venice. A nice side trip from Naples is to take the ferry to the Isle of Capri and also visit the remains in Pompei. The train stations are usually located in the center of the cities which is usually where you want to be. We rented a car a couple of times but it is a pain to always have to find parking in the cities.

Spain is a beautiful country but probably requires all the vacation time itself but if you go there you may want to take the ferry to Morocco for a day trip. It is like going back 500 years in time. If you go to Germany or Austria then I would also try to take in Prague for a few days but be ready for an army of tourists.

abaya

Yes, that's what most first-time visitors like to do, in my experience. In my case, I enjoyed seeing all that the first time, and then my traveling partners for subsequent trips were all first-timers... so basically, I revisited everything again. Due to that fact, I tend to favor exploring Eastern Europe (not least because it's SOOOO much cheaper than Western). But I can understand your reasons.

You can't really go wrong with Paris, though you'll be stuck in some long museum/monument lines in the summer. Rome's monuments are very impressive, but the city itself is quite dirty and crowded, traffic is bad, and everything is VERY badly organized (but that kind of goes for any place in Italy, other than the Cinque Terre) . If you don't mind that, you'll be fine. And surprisingly, I actually really love London... have always really enjoyed that city. Maybe because I grew up in Seattle, I never notice the weather, really.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

hambone

I know they have a pass in London where you can buy it and get to the front of some of these lines....is there anything like that in Paris?

Also, if anyone has any lesser-known places to see in these 3 cities, I would like to know that too. We aren't completely decided on these ones, but we both get excited when talking about it, so its looking more and more that we may do it this way.

__________________
"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

roachboy

i lived in paris for a few years, so know alot of more curious places to hang out/visit....if you're going on a package dealio, you wont have time to do much of it, though. and you'll be streamed toward the center of the tourist-city, which has its advantages (the stuff you're looking at/experiencing) and its disadvantages (mobs of people)...

here are a couple suggestions---personally, i dont like hotels very much, or at least not for too long a stay..and one of my favorite little things about paris is the food--but the stuff you can get at markets--and i like to be able to cook rather than having to go out to eat all the time all the time--so there's this magazine called "france-usa contacts" (fusac) that you can look at to find short-term apartment rentals or apartment exchange possibilities. that way you can control where you are in the city...
and paris, like most places, is a collection of neighborhoods.
they're quite different, one from the other---my favorite is in the 20th, around place gambetta, and there are lovely areas along menilmontant, where it starts to climb, just past blvd belleville i think. it's like a time-warp part of the city.

paris in august can be a drag, i found. the city still functions, but it feels empty.

o yeah---if you're inclined to travel around france, another option for places to stay is renting a "gite" or a little house. they can be really quite cheap--you can get them for a week to a month---you'll pay through the nose between mid july and the beginning of september, but you can go to the same places at the end of may, find in general lovely weather and not shell out too much to do it.

http://www.gites-de-france.com/gites/uk/rural_gites

this website is full of country options--you can chase links to find the city options. it's a great alternative to a hotel.

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