Manic_Skafe

Last night I went out to a club in Williamsburg Brooklyn to see El-p put on a free show. I get to the venue and find out photography isn't allowed and after successfully managing to sneak my camera in I find that plenty of other people are taking pictures with SLRs, compact point and shoots, and their cell phones.

And while signs were posted and the bouncers at the door were telling people not to bring their cameras in, I figured that the photography ban wasn't too serious and was just a mere formality that afforded them the option to eject a person if they felt the need to.

So I snapped away a few pics of one of the opening acts without any problems. As I was a few beers into the night, I went to the bathroom to relieve myself. And as I finished up in the stall, I decided to review a few of the pics before stepping out to wash my hands. As I'm looking at my pics, one of the bouncers who worked the door practically walks into my stall and demands that I either give him the battery of leave the club immediately.

I tired to level with him and as he refused to budge, I gave up my battery and was told that I'd get it back upon exit. Fine with me, I had a spare in my pocket anyway...

El-p takes the stage and the crowd goes nuts, people are taking pictures and I follow suit. 5 or so minutes into shooting, the same guy who walked in on me in the stall tells me that I either give up my spare or I'll be ejected from the club. I ask again if I get my batteries back upon exit and he assures me I will.

Show ends and as I make my way out to my car I see him and ask him for my batteries. He refuses to give them back and states that "I fucked myself on that" and that he's keeping them. I grab my coat from the car and come back to the club to level with him and it's was just more of the same.

At $50 a battery, I left the show $100 poorer to find out that I have [b]4[/] tickets on my car. The tickets totaling to almost half of what I paid for the car.....

Now I understand that the club has their policies and it's their right to enforce them as they see fit. But it seems to me that the guy crossed the line when he promised me my belongings upon my exit from the club and essentially stole them when he refused to return them.

I understand that I was their nuisance that night but that doesn't negate the fact that I paid for my equipment with my heard-earned cash and would've surely left if I were told that my batteries wouldn't be returned to me.

I'm going to try and get in touch with the club owner but I doubt anything positive will come from it. Should I bother trying to take them into small claims court or just eat the cost of the batteries?

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

jewels

It sucks, doesn't it. The tickets and clubs are usually advising that photography isn't allowed, but I've found some small local venues have no problem with picture and video taking.

On the other hand, I was in a House of Blues Thanksgiving weekend and at least was given the option to leave the camera with their personnel for a $2 fee. It was better than losing the camera or going back to the car.

My understanding of the law is that they have no obligation to return either your camera or batteries if the attendee has been appropriately notified of the rule. You've been told not to bring it; therefore, we have the right to confiscate your property. Or so I've been told. Please correct me if this is wrong, 'cause I'd sure love to keep bringing my camera to shows.

Ustwo

You should have called the cops right then, but you should have really just left prior.

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Cynthetiq

4 tickets?!?!?!?!?!

$150/ticket that's a hefty $600 night of hookers and drugs.

I think that generally when you go to parking ticket court it gets reduced to 1 depending on the location and severity of the parking infraction.

As far as bailment is concerned regarding your property, since they didn't give you any ticket stub there was no bailment created, which is what happens when you give your car to a lot attendant, your coat to a coat check person, your dry cleaning etc.

He basically took your stuff, it's up to you to prove it.

I don't bring my camera or cellphone to shows because of the camera hassles. I'm not interested in it. I don't care about "but everyone else was doing it...." that's no excuse. You saw the signs and disregarded them. You got singled out, and sucks to be you.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jinn

I think you're probably misjudging the club owner. I can't imagine someone who responsibly manages a place like that wants any bad press or drama.

What the bouncer did is theft. It does not matter that it occured on private property, nor does it matter that they had "policies" against using a camera. If you go to someone's house and they rob you blind, but there is a sign on the door that says "entering allows us to rob you blind," it doesn't suddenly become legally enforceable.

This is absolutely false, and it is very much illegal for a private individual to "confiscate" another private individual's property, even if it occurs on private property. This is a right we only grant to law enforcement officers, and only as necessary to ensure your and their safety.

I'd call the manager, and approach him amiably at first - talk about how it would benefit him to return them. Not a condescending "It'd be bad for you to not," but talk about the business you have and will continue to bring, the friends you've recommended to the place - even if it's a lie. Failing this, make it clear that you will be forced to take him to court if he refuses to either (a) return the batteries or (b) reimburse you their value.

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jewels

Thank you for the clarification, JinnKai.

Then if the bouncer was just being an a--hole, talking with the owner should prove fruitful.

thingstodo

Two words: prove it.

You've only got his word against your word. Tough one there in my book. If I was the club owner with that kind of evidence along with the fact that you broke the rules and I'd probably side with the bouncer, especially if he usually did a good job and there weren't many other legitimate complaints on him. Side benefits.

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The_Jazz

thingstodo beat me to it. You don't have a receipt for the batteries from the bouncer. If it were me, I would have insisted that he give me one as soon as he agreed to hold it.


Basically, your chances of success are slim here. Try with the owner, but be prepared to be instructed to go fuck yourself.

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Manic_Skafe

I really appreciate all the replies - thanks guys.

I took Jinn's advice and explained the situation to the owner of the venue and while she refused to reimburse me the cash value for the batteries, she did offer me free tickets to any upcoming concert of my choosing. I'll request tickets to their most expensive upcoming show I can find and resell them at the door on the night of the show.

Fair is fair.

But it certainly can be argued that as he was under the employ of the owners of the venue at the time in which he entered into a verbal agreement with me to return my belongings upon my exit from the club, he left the club susceptible to any reasonable damages it may face as the result of his defaulting upon our agreement.

Bailment - delivery of goods in trust, upon contract, either expressed or implied, that the trust shall be faithfully executed on the part of the bailee.

I must admit that coming from an admin, that was surprisingly rude.

I'm practically drowning in ticket stubs from the 200+ shows I've been to this year and I've taken pictures at most of those shows without any sort of harassment from the staff while most of those venues have postings that forbid photography.

It may seem to be exactly that cut and dry but I can assure you that you're wrong.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Cynthetiq

Glad you got some satisfaction by getting some tickets to some show.

Am I being rude? Or you just don't like my answer? Bailment is implied if they were taking everyone's batteries. Again, burden of proof is on you, you need to prove that A) he took your property, and B) that bailment was implied.

Let's take this to the highway, you're driving down the highway posted speed limit is 65, everyone else including you is going 75, you get pulled over by the cops.

Sucks that you got singled out because again, you were the one that was caught disregarding the sign and you were the one that got picked on.

Would you really be able to tell the judge that "Everyone else was speeding, yes, the sign was there, but your honor, everyone else was speeding why did I get singled out?"

You can't excuse your bad behavior by pointing at other people's bad behavior.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Manic_Skafe

No it was the "sucks to be you" line that I found to be surprisingly rude - especially coming from someone who's responsibility it is to moderate this forum. I can imagine how good it must feel to stroke your ego by including something like that in your post but other than making obvious your apparent desire to add insult to injury - it adds very little to this thread.

Did you even read my first post?

I'm done with this thread and since you have you apparently have nothing worthwhile to add to it, I can only suggest you do the same.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Cynthetiq

you obviously have no idea about what my ego is like and what kind of humility I do live by.

I guess you have no sense of humor or any kind of new yorker in you... I don't know how long you've lived here or what kind of mindset you have.

If you took offense to "sucks to be you" no offense was meant. My apologies to you if you did. "Sucks to be you" is a comment that goes deep in my circles, may not in yours but it's not an odd thing since there's even a whole song done a bit more depravely.

Avenue Q - Sucks to be me


YMMV

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.