What does the military have to do with my student loan application? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

spectre · 08-04-2007, 07:47 AM

Okay, enough. People have been trying to help you in this thread and all you've done is take swipes back at them. I just went over the FAFSA, and it specifically asks if you are a male and says "Most male students must register with the Selective Service to get federal aid." You HAVE TO have seen that question since you have to answer it. If you didn't follow up on what that meant, YOU dropped the ball on it. When I first applied for a FAFSA loan, I reviewed every last question to make sure I had everything right. Yeah, you probably should've been informed that you had to register when you came here, but once you came across that question on the FAFSA, if you didn't take the time to look into something that could potentially prevent you from getting this loan, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Prince · 08-04-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amonkie

Have you gone to the Selective Service's website to see what your options are since you did not register? According to this they can't hold it against you if you can show you did not willfully avoid registering. Might be worth taking your energy into this thread and instead checking this out.

Old news. I have already sent in an application for a statement to prove that I am exempt. Beside the point of this thread, but that's alright, this has turned into a slew of off-topic banter that has no purpose other than to tell me I'm an idiot. So please, save it, unless you really are this bored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratman

Sorry, ShaniFaye, but that holds no water for the OP's original complaint- that nobody told him at the time of his immigration FOUR YEARS AGO that if he ever wanted to apply for a federally sponsored student loan he had to register for the selective service because at the time he was 25 years old. He is 30 now, still not married after four years on a K-1 visa, and griping because his adopted country of four years won't give him a pass on a requirement for cheap money for education. After four years in America, if you haven't figured out that the gov't really doesn't care about your convenience, you need an education that no college can provide.

1. Why are you still harping about the loan? That isn't the point. Why would an immigration officer tell me about loan requirements? The loan thing is only what brought it to my attention - it's affiliation with the subject matter ended there. One more time: I WAS 25 AT THE TIME. I WAS LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO SIGN UP REGARDLESS OF WHETHER I EVER WENT TO COLLEGE AND APPLIED FOR LOANS OR NOT. Does this finally sink in?

2. Please quote where I stated I wasn't married? Do you think I'd still be allowed to live and work here on a K1 visa if I had not gotten married within the very short time allotment within which after arriving into the country you have to do so? I was married 3 weeks after I came into the country. I've been married for four years, and if I weren't, I'd be long gone.

You can make stuff up and try to paint is ugly as you want. It seems quite normal for people here to assume the worst of anyone they don't know. That's fine, dish it out. Off-topic, on-topic, quoting shit I never said... it's all good. Part of that education college can't provide, I'm sure.

Quote:

You HAVE TO have seen that question since you have to answer it. If you didn't follow up on what that meant, YOU dropped the ball on it. When I first applied for a FAFSA loan, I reviewed every last question to make sure I had everything right. Yeah, you probably should've been informed that you had to register when you came here, but once you came across that question on the FAFSA, if you didn't take the time to look into something that could potentially prevent you from getting this loan, you have no one to blame but yourself.

I disagree with the "help you" comment, but whatever.

I saw the question, yes, when I filled the application out with my wife, who understands and speaks the language better than I do. I asked her what the hell that was, she said it's for enlisting in the army, click no, you're not enlisting. So I did. Apparently neither of us knew enough about it to know better, and yes, we should have researched it.

And I do assume the blame for not doing so. That's not what I am talking about. People just aren't comprehending what I am pissed about, it's not the loan requirement itself, but if that's what you want to focus on and keep on about, okay. If you refuse to read what I am writing, then the thread serves no purpose.

I am willing to bet that most males, regardless of age, who were born in this country, already knew what the selective service was about before they came across the FAFSA. I was not born here, and I am not using that as an excuse, just making a point of it because I want you to understand why it's easy for me to miss something like that. Where I'm from, you either went to the draft when you turned 18, or the MPs knocked on your door. There was no way for you to not be aware, the military saw to that. It's different here, I get it. You're just supposed to be aware.

I've lost my temper due to unhelpful, inappropriate and off-topic replies, and I apologize for it.

ShaniFaye · 08-04-2007, 07:55 AM

and as he's stated, if he knew he would have done it....immediately. MY point is that with something like this I think its crappy that it ISNT a requirement since they can throw his butt in jail. With all the other stuff they have to fill out and agree to (especially since a K1 leads to at least perm resident alien status) and all the money you have to pay and forms you have to sign in blood why cant they make that a part of what they need to know?

I never saw him say it was "inconvenient" to do it, I never saw him say he wouldnt. All I saw was him saying he never knew.

Im done arguing this.....I see his side, I see his point, I see his frustration....I know what he's had to go thru to get to this country, legally, and I for one applaud him for doing it the right way and uphold he has every reason to be upset no one ever mentioned this was a necessity

Ratman · 08-04-2007, 09:16 AM

I'm not going to quote your entire first post, but it seems that you were on about how the loan would give you some financial breathing space, but you could make it without it. That says, to me, inconvenient. The reason you gave for this was that no one told you about "selective service" ever at any time, and that was the cause for the delay in funds. That says to me that you feel it is unfair that no one told you about it.

In post 20 you said you entered on a K-1 visa, and I assumed that was your current visa status, as there was nothing to indicate otherwise. If this was incorrect, and your visa status has changed, I apologize. I congratulate you on your marriage, but at no time do you indicate your current visa status. You do make it clear that no INS agent has ever told you anything about selective service. I submit, respectfully, that if it is not one of the expensive, time consuming, legal hoops that you are required to jump through, if it not something that appears on any of your forms for a K-1 or a permanent resident visa as some kind of check-off requirement for granting the appropriate visa that can not be overlooked or ignored or missed in any way (and I know that gov't forms can be misleading and confusing, so this is a possibility), then it was not in anyway, however unfair you may think it is, necessary for the agents handling your immigration to inform you about selective service. I'm not saying it would not be a good idea to inform people about this, but if it is not a requirement for the visa status, I don't see the obligation to do so. And I appreciate that you have gone through the system legally, and I hope that if you desire to become a citizen that your path is smooth.

It seems from your later posts that the source of your frustration is that no one ever told you about something that native-born Americans know about and take for granted- compulsory registration in the selective service. Us native-borns take it for granted that everyone in the country (we don't assume anything about your visa status, that would be discriminatory) knows about selective service. Aren't the notices posted at every post office in the country? I understand that you feel left out. But you know what? No one from the government has ever called on the second Tuesday of November, EVER, to check if I voted.

You admit that you saw the question on the FAFSA, with your wife, that you should have researched it to get the information, but you answered it as you did on her advise. What are you mad about? You had everything you needed in front of you for the loan months ago, but it's not about the loan. It's not about your visa status, because you are legal regardless of your registration status, right? There is no chance that you are going to be dragged out of you bed in the dead of night and sent to Guantanamo because of your registration status, is there? On-topic, off-topic, bring it on you say. What is the topic? If you are just frustrated with the process of dealing with the government, well, shit, you will have more sympathy than you know what to do with, because anyone that has lived in any country with a government knows what you mean. If you cry "poor me, it's so unfair!", well don't expect a lot of sympathy because anyone that has lived in any country with a government feels the same way.

Just to be clear- not about the loan. Not about the visa. Not about college entrance. Not about registering for SS. Not about the chance of serving if registered. What is this about?

Prince · 08-04-2007, 02:07 PM

Thanks for your courteous post, Ratman.

I can see why it's confusing as to what exactly I am pissed about. It was just very unnerving to find out about the whole selective service thing. It makes me wonder what else I haven't done that I should have, and what will suddenly prevent me from something important in the future.

I'm just used to the government (I am referring to how things were in my native country) being very proactive about civic responsibilities. No one there can claim they didn't know about something they had to do, because the establishment doesn't leave you alone about it. But then it's a population of only 5 million (with very little immigration into the country), so keeping track of people ought to be a lot easier and cheaper than here.

I think my whole post just rose out of frustration and stress, and I'm not really proud of how I've handled it.

My apologies to those who have sincerely tried to explain things and whom I've offended.

OzOz · 08-06-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince

I'm just used to the government (I am referring to how things were in my native country) being very proactive about civic responsibilities.

That's what I don't understand. After all, it's a legal requirement that must be met or you face jail time or a huge fine. How much effort would it take for the US government to include something like that in information packets for visa applications?

The whole thing reminds me of this passage from "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy". The main character, Arthur Dent, has woken up to find that his house is to be demolished to make way for a bypass, and he wasn't informed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Adams

Mr Prosser said, "You were quite entitled to make any suggestions or protests at the appropriate time, you know."

"Appropriate time?" hooted Arthur. "Appropriate time? The first I knew about it was when a workman arrived at my home yesterday. I asked him if he'd come to clean the windows and he said no he'd come to demolish the house. He didn't tell me straight away, of course. Oh no. First he wiped a couple of windows and charged me a fiver. Then he told me."

"But, Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."

"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight around to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean like actually telling anybody or anything."

"But the plans were on display..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a torch."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on a door saying Beware of the Leopard."

Slims · 08-06-2007, 04:15 PM

Not proactive? I was driving home from work today and I heard a Selective Service radio commercial. I remember being innundated with Selective Service notices when I was a teenager. If there was a disconnect in your case it had to have been an unusual one.

OzOz · 08-06-2007, 07:19 PM

He was only there a month before passing out of the age range where it was a requirement - and he didn't have the opportunity to be inundated with any Selective Service notices when he was a teenager, as he wasn't there when he was a teenager!

I know full well that it's easy enough to miss things. Here, federal, state and local council elections all have compulsory voting. It really is impossible to miss the federal and state elections, but the local council elections I've only ever voted in once in the two decades I've been eligible to vote, simply because I've never known that there were local council elections being held at the time.

08-04-2007, 07:47 AM	#41 (permalink)
spectre Junkie	Okay, enough. People have been trying to help you in this thread and all you've done is take swipes back at them. I just went over the FAFSA, and it specifically asks if you are a male and says "Most male students must register with the Selective Service to get federal aid." You *HAVE TO* have seen that question since you have to answer it. If you didn't follow up on what that meant, YOU dropped the ball on it. When I first applied for a FAFSA loan, I reviewed every last question to make sure I had everything right. Yeah, you probably should've been informed that you had to register when you came here, but once you came across that question on the FAFSA, if you didn't take the time to look into something that could potentially prevent you from getting this loan, you have no one to blame but yourself. __________________ "Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head

08-04-2007, 07:55 AM	#43 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	and as he's stated, if he knew he would have done it....immediately. MY point is that with something like this I think its crappy that it ISNT a requirement since they can throw his butt in jail. With all the other stuff they have to fill out and agree to (especially since a K1 leads to at least perm resident alien status) and all the money you have to pay and forms you have to sign in blood why cant they make that a part of what they need to know? I never saw him say it was "inconvenient" to do it, I never saw him say he wouldnt. All I saw was him saying he never knew. Im done arguing this.....I see his side, I see his point, I see his frustration....I know what he's had to go thru to get to this country, legally, and I for one applaud him for doing it the right way and uphold he has every reason to be upset no one ever mentioned this was a necessity __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

08-04-2007, 09:16 AM	#44 (permalink)
Ratman Addict Location: Somewhere... Across the sea...	I'm not going to quote your entire first post, but it seems that you were on about how the loan would give you some financial breathing space, but you could make it without it. That says, to me, inconvenient. The reason you gave for this was that no one told you about "selective service" ever at any time, and that was the cause for the delay in funds. That says to me that you feel it is unfair that no one told you about it. In post 20 you said you entered on a K-1 visa, and I assumed that was your current visa status, as there was nothing to indicate otherwise. If this was incorrect, and your visa status has changed, I apologize. I congratulate you on your marriage, but at no time do you indicate your current visa status. You do make it clear that no INS agent has ever told you anything about selective service. I submit, respectfully, that if it is not one of the expensive, time consuming, legal hoops that you are required to jump through, if it not something that appears on any of your forms for a K-1 or a permanent resident visa as some kind of check-off requirement for granting the appropriate visa that can not be overlooked or ignored or missed in any way (and I know that gov't forms can be misleading and confusing, so this is a possibility), then it was not in anyway, however unfair you may think it is, necessary for the agents handling your immigration to inform you about selective service. I'm not saying it would not be a good idea to inform people about this, but if it is not a requirement for the visa status, I don't see the obligation to do so. And I appreciate that you have gone through the system legally, and I hope that if you desire to become a citizen that your path is smooth. It seems from your later posts that the source of your frustration is that no one ever told you about something that native-born Americans know about and take for granted- compulsory registration in the selective service. Us native-borns take it for granted that everyone in the country (we don't assume anything about your visa status, that would be discriminatory) knows about selective service. Aren't the notices posted at every post office in the country? I understand that you feel left out. But you know what? No one from the government has ever called on the second Tuesday of November, EVER, to check if I voted. You admit that you saw the question on the FAFSA, with your wife, that you should have researched it to get the information, but you answered it as you did on her advise. What are you mad about? You had everything you needed in front of you for the loan months ago, but it's not about the loan. It's not about your visa status, because you are legal regardless of your registration status, right? There is no chance that you are going to be dragged out of you bed in the dead of night and sent to Guantanamo because of your registration status, is there? On-topic, off-topic, bring it on you say. What is the topic? If you are just frustrated with the process of dealing with the government, well, shit, you will have more sympathy than you know what to do with, because anyone that has lived in any country with a government knows what you mean. If you cry "poor me, it's so unfair!", well don't expect a lot of sympathy because anyone that has lived in any country with a government feels the same way. Just to be clear- not about the loan. Not about the visa. Not about college entrance. Not about registering for SS. Not about the chance of serving if registered. What is this about? __________________ The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference. "God made man, but he used the monkey to do it." DEVO

08-04-2007, 02:07 PM	#45 (permalink)
Prince /nɑndəsˈkrɪpt/ Location: LV-426	Thanks for your courteous post, Ratman. I can see why it's confusing as to what exactly I am pissed about. It was just very unnerving to find out about the whole selective service thing. It makes me wonder what else I haven't done that I should have, and what will suddenly prevent me from something important in the future. I'm just used to the government (I am referring to how things were in my native country) being very proactive about civic responsibilities. No one there can claim they didn't know about something they had to do, because the establishment doesn't leave you alone about it. But then it's a population of only 5 million (with very little immigration into the country), so keeping track of people ought to be a lot easier and cheaper than here. I think my whole post just rose out of frustration and stress, and I'm not really proud of how I've handled it. My apologies to those who have sincerely tried to explain things and whom I've offended. __________________ Who is John Galt?

08-06-2007, 04:15 PM	#47 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Not proactive? I was driving home from work today and I heard a Selective Service radio commercial. I remember being innundated with Selective Service notices when I was a teenager. If there was a disconnect in your case it had to have been an unusual one. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

08-06-2007, 07:19 PM	#48 (permalink)
OzOz Psycho Location: Right here, right now.	He was only there a month before passing out of the age range where it was a requirement - and he didn't have the opportunity to be inundated with any Selective Service notices when he was a teenager, as he wasn't there when he was a teenager! I know full well that it's easy enough to miss things. Here, federal, state and local council elections all have compulsory voting. It really is impossible to miss the federal and state elections, but the local council elections I've only ever voted in once in the two decades I've been eligible to vote, simply because I've never known that there were local council elections being held at the time. __________________ Maybe you should put some shorts on or something, if you wanna keep fighting evil today.