03-08-2007, 06:48 AM | #41 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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I don't believe in the existence of god and I've never spent a single solitary moment trying to prove it. Is that odd, too? Or am I just wrong?
I always love it when Christians refer to the horrible deaths of people who don't agree with them (ie, "the apocalypse") with such concern and compassion. It gives me so much faith in Christianity's higher ideals and love for mankind. Not.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-08-2007, 08:48 AM | #42 (permalink) | |
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03-08-2007, 09:01 AM | #43 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
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03-08-2007, 09:10 AM | #44 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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well, il, i don't want to speak for m2, but i'll throw out my opinion that i have no respect for an omniscient being who is such a bastard that he/she/it will put people in burning fire or whatnot for eternity if they don't obey/worship/love/accept/whatever. that's the sort of thing i tend to associate with psychopathic abusive parents/spouses, not a loving god who takes the higher road to achieve peace and unity and whatnot.
secondly, i think you misread m2's post, technically. if you wouldn't be speaking of hell / apocolypse with compassion, then you're not the christian she's addressing. you sound like the old testament type christian...floods, plagues, frogs and locusts and whatnot. back before god was a hippie, you know?
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
03-08-2007, 09:15 AM | #45 (permalink) | ||||
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 03-08-2007 at 09:22 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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03-08-2007, 09:41 AM | #46 (permalink) | |
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03-08-2007, 09:43 AM | #47 (permalink) | ||
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If we have free will.. then that would mean that god doesn't know the future. Or wait, he/she/it just didn't make us robots right? pfft. does god say thinks like.. "ok .. guccilvr is going to be born and he will end up famous one day.. but I'm going to tease him first and make him a homeless man" I mean he/she /it knows the future right? So he/she/it would know what the outcome of my life would be. Yet, we have free will, and according to you the outcome of my life is determined by me? Ok I choose to believe god doesn't exist, and there is no hell. This doesn't add up. How can a person have free will yet still be in control of an all-powerful being?? Quote:
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03-08-2007, 09:46 AM | #48 (permalink) | |||
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It's one of the perks of being omnipotent. Quote:
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03-08-2007, 10:09 AM | #49 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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hey il, i assume you're not a calvinist? i'm no biblical scholar, but i seem to recall some huge fight over predestination and omniscience and all that junk going on that caused some sort of schism in the church as some point.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
03-08-2007, 10:38 AM | #51 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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It's the use of the term "the last laugh" that prompted my comment. I've seen this kind of sentiment from Christians many times before. It's not simply the lack of compassion for those whom they believe will suffer a brutal and terrible fate, but a certain amount of glee taken in it.
I've also seen many Christians try to backtrack out of such statements when they are called on it. No one wants to be seen deriving self-satisfaction from someone else's suffering. But there it is.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-08-2007, 10:57 AM | #52 (permalink) | |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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This seems like a good time for some King Missile, don't y'all agree?
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
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03-08-2007, 11:06 AM | #53 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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And not only that, to my mind, it denotes more fear of not being Christian than joy in being one.
Cool song, piggy
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-08-2007, 11:08 AM | #54 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
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Plus, we'll finally get to laugh at all those people who called us illogical and definitively stated that God didn't exist (So it's a win-win situation) Quote:
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
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03-08-2007, 11:11 AM | #55 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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yep, carrot and the stick. when the carrot fails, then that stick gets pretty fucking big....time out? no, not time out. time in pain FOREVER!!! it'd be like punishing your kids by poking them with sticks...FOREVER!!! oh, didn't study for your test? lied about not sneaking out? VERY WELL! I'm going to tie you to a wall and poke at you with molten pincers...until well after you die. Take that!
as for the King Missile song...god that cracked me up ten years ago when I came across it. Its much better listened to, in my opinion. Hey IL...maybe my understanding was wrong back when I was in the fold...but wouldn't that sort of attitude - the lack of compassion, the laughing at others' misfortunes, ignorance, pain, suffereing, etc - sort of put you firmly outside the group of the "saved?" I mean, wouldn't you be getting your ass fried with the rest of us, but with the rather trivial condolence of being the guy yelling "I told you so. He's a bad mother...."....while you're also roasting at the big Kenny Rogers in the sky for all eternity? Then again, as I said you seem to have that Old Testament vibe going on, so maybe not so much. Regardless, best of luck. I guess we'll all find out one day
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style Last edited by pig; 03-08-2007 at 11:15 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
03-08-2007, 11:25 AM | #56 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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...And, once again, my subtle humor goes unnoticed (I even included the thumbs-up emote, this time)...
Anywho, on a more serious note, I find it odd how you continue to assert that Christians show a lack of compassion towards those who choose to suffer in Hell. You're told beforehand what'll happen if you don't believe and are given ample opportunity to believe, so I don't understand where your argument is coming from. Anyway, how's this for compassion? A postcard to Hell from Heaven: "Sorry you're not here!"
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 03-08-2007 at 11:31 AM.. |
03-08-2007, 11:26 AM | #57 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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I think there's too much generalizing here. And as usual, it always devolves to anti-Christian sentiment. I am a Christian and do not fit a single one of the attitudes or behaviors described by the atheists in this thread. Nor do any of my friends and family.
Are atheists only against Christians or ALL religions outside their own? I don't mind criticism of my religion, in fact I think it healthy but this seems a bit lop-sided to me. Threads like this one need to be more balanced. |
03-08-2007, 11:29 AM | #58 (permalink) | ||
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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How would you balance this thread?
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce Last edited by mixedmedia; 03-08-2007 at 11:32 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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03-08-2007, 11:36 AM | #59 (permalink) | |
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It's fairly easy to be a believer. All you need to do is accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior, read the Bible and act as Jesus would act. I just thought that, you know, since people want to make generalizations of all Christians that I'd, you know, act the part Anyway, you're trying to attribute a negative trait to a specific religion, which is just a cop out. All humans are born with a very distinct set of traits, some of which manifest themselves more so in one person than another. Regardless, people strive to be proven right. Otherwise, we wouldn't argue and debate.
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 03-08-2007 at 11:43 AM.. |
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03-08-2007, 11:40 AM | #60 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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For what purpose?
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-08-2007, 11:43 AM | #61 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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jorgelito,
i'm personally not really against christians. i don't understand why someone would be into the faith, but i'm not anti-Christian, so to speak. I can understand the comforting aspects of the faith, but I just can't find it to pass muster. Hey, you're a Christian? Fantastic! I'm glad it works for you. As far as the "only Christian, or all faiths equally?" aspect - I'm pretty much against (what I perceive to be mostly) arbitrary worldviews that lead to a condemnation of large sects of a population, strictly based on what they say they "believe in." Maybe they're out fighting hunger, or poverty, increasing the scientific and technological ability of society to address massive issues, maybe they're raising a family as well they can, basically being good people...but they haven't said the magic words, gone through initiation ceremony...whatever. that i find minorly repugnant. that applies across the boards, religions, creeds, social groups... what specifically are you referencing as anti-Christian? I'd argue that you could slide Islam or Judaism or Zen-Buddhism in there, and I'd have the same sentiment. I read somewhere last year that someone found a bone fragment that they think might have been THE BUDDHAH's little finger...a bunch of guys with shaved heads showed up to worship it. WORSHIP IT!!!. I thought..."that's some crazy shit right there." As far as you personally are concerned...well, you might be the type of Christian I can understand. Who knows? I think a lot of sentiments expressed by the "atheists" in this thread are in response to the sentiments expressed by the theists / Christians in this thread. If you want balance...well, then bring the balance. No one is saying a cookie cutter mold fits everyone.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
03-08-2007, 11:46 AM | #62 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Well, maybe adding or introducing new or other angles to the debate. It just seems a little flat.
My atheism question was because it seems to me that atheists only "pick on" Christians but leave all the other religions alone. To try and stay with the OP, here's my opinion: The video is what it is, it may be a bit harsh or "insulting" and hurtful but one kind of has to just deal with it. As to intent, no clue. I don't see any other atheist videos mocking or degrading other religions so it's not a stretch to think that Christianity is being singled out. On a more philosophical level, I think it would be wise to do a little soul searching for Christians. One has to wonder, where these responses, biases, or bashing sentiments come from. A self-examination would be productive. Maybe Christians should think about themselves, their behavior and give an honest reckoning on how they may or may not adhere to Christian principles. could it be a backlash from previous history of persecution? Christian history does have a lot to answer for. Some Christians like to ask themselves: "WWJD?" But do they answer honestly? Likewise, if we are to espouse Christian ideals, then wouldn't it be most effective to lead by example? I rarely see this these days. I actually think the problem is NOT atheism, but rather, Christianity (not the religion itself, but the state of it). I say this as a devout Christian, out of love and genuine concern, not hate. So these videos etc, may be a reflection from a group that traditionally may have felt under represented or persecuted. It would be constructive to listen to what they have to say. And for those that feel that these videos or sentiments are the only way, please be fair. Do not condemn the many by the actions of a few. In other words, we should extend each other mutual courtesy. |
03-08-2007, 11:51 AM | #63 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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Besides, people like being proved right
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
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03-08-2007, 11:54 AM | #64 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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I also understand and am against "arbitrary world views that condemn large segments of the population". I agree with you completely. My objection is that I do not agree that I fit into that mold although I am a Christian. I do not condemn. These are fantastic topics to discuss and by rights we should really open up a few threads and have at it. Regardless of which side of the debate you are on, we all stand to learn something. For me personally, I have found that talking to and with atheists, Muslims , Jews, Buddhists has made me a more tolerant person, a better Christian even. I think we all stand to gain something when we really think and listen and learn. |
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03-08-2007, 11:57 AM | #65 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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IL - thank you! i feel so much better.
jorgelito, for my part, you must understand that i'm something of a smart ass. so i play a bit, with serious commentary riding underneath. in another thread started recently by filterton, i put forth my basic thoughts on Christianity, and you can apply them across the board to most other religions that i know of. i think that a lot of people focus on christianity because its the major religion of the united states and western europe, and that's where a lot of the commentary is occuring that we are exposed to. i honestly didn't watch the video in the op, so i can't say that i think its the only way. if people loosened up their religions a bit, i think a lot of headway could be gained in determining which parts are useful, and which parts have simply lost their efficacy. but that probably goes against the nature of being relgious to many...you're not supposed to really modify it so much as accept it...otherwise, you're creating another religion a la martin luther. edit: just saw your post jorgelito: word.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
03-08-2007, 12:05 PM | #66 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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Now, on a more serious note, you'll find that as Jorgelito pointed out, it seems as if most atheists don't have many qualms with religion in general so much as it has qualms with Christianity. The "Blasphemy Challenge" just reaffirms this opinion. Instead of denying the existence of the general idea of God, they specifically deny the existence of a Christian God. People say that Christians do the same thing, but I've yet to find a video made by Christians for the sole purpose of mocking and inciting a response from a different religious group (If someone knows of one then, please, enlighten me). There's a difference between advocating your religious beliefs and mindlessly attacking another religious belief.
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
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03-08-2007, 12:06 PM | #67 (permalink) | |
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So, you really think that kind of attitude will fly in heaven?? That sure doesn't seem like a christ-like example. So how exactly are you going to prove this?? It would be nice to prove all the higher power believers wrong, but yeah, it's a little hard to do that when you die. |
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03-08-2007, 12:23 PM | #68 (permalink) | ||
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
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03-08-2007, 12:25 PM | #69 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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On the centillion (one million to the hundredth power)-to-one chance I'm wrong, I'd much rather spend eternity in hell than with a deity who chooses to set the rules at odds like this. The whole "You can learn how the universe works, but don't accept that knowledge because I gave you a book to believe in instead" is bullshit, and if any deity wants my love or respect, he, she or it should learn that respect and love are earned. That's where the heart of the blasphemy challenge lies for me. Quote:
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03-08-2007, 12:35 PM | #70 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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03-08-2007, 12:41 PM | #71 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Fair enough, but you could still make the argument that Jews and Muslims are heavily influential in our world. Their religion is a major influence to them and accordingly, due to their influence in our society, the rest of us too.
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03-08-2007, 12:57 PM | #72 (permalink) | |||||
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--- TIME: Could the answer be God? DAWKINS: There could be something incredibly grand and incomprehensible and beyond our present understanding. COLLINS: That's God. --- Dawkins then goes on to argue that the interpretation of "God" could be numerous different entities. It's not the first time I've seen/heard him backtrack on his assertion that God definitively doesn't exist. Interview Quote:
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All right. Sorry. I just had to get that out. You're, in essence, cutting off your nose to spite your face. God doesn't need your respect nor love. He blesses you by honoring him. He doesn't "Miss out" if you choose to deny his existence. I can't help but think of the kid who causes harm to himself in order to try to hurt his parents. Ultimately, it's stupid as you only end up hurting yourself. But hey... Whatever floats your boat Quote:
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 03-08-2007 at 01:01 PM.. |
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... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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03-09-2007, 07:42 AM | #74 (permalink) | |
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03-09-2007, 08:08 AM | #75 (permalink) |
Unencapsulated
Location: Kittyville
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The reason that I tend to react to Christians more negatively than other religions is simple: personal experience. If I tell a Jew or a Muslim that I'm not religious, they say "oh, okay". If they seem approachable, I might even get to learn more about them and their traditions and beliefs. If I tell a "Christian" (of many different flavors), many have felt that that's their chance to convert me and make me one of them. They try to convince me their way is the only right way. I feel like many Christians act like the Borg: *you will be assimilated*. Clearly, that pisses me off - I'm not trying to convince them to give up their religion, don't mess with my beliefs either!
Now... that's not to say I agree with broad-stroke generalization, or that all Christians suck - many I've met (who are honestly practitioners and not just "raised christian") are wonderful, loving, open people. It's just that I've met more who weren't. Maybe that's a function of where I grew up and went to school, who knows.
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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'. |
03-09-2007, 11:16 AM | #76 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Arkansas
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Wow, thats all I can say is WOW. You guys are awesome. It really made me stop and think reading the answeres and some of the ideas being discussed on here. This is exactly what I was looking for.
I do tend to agree that most times "christians" seem to want to convert more than other religions, but all in all is it really a bad thing that they are on fire for their specific religion? I mean it seems to me that as long as you told them you werent interested, and they said ok, but maybe left you some literature or something, that that would be ok? Just my .02 cents worth. Good Job yall thanks for all the great responses!
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God created man, Sam Colt made them equal. |
03-09-2007, 12:59 PM | #77 (permalink) | |
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which then of course allows me the right to bash their faith and how I highly doubt that if jesus was real, she wouldn't be appreciative of their actions. It usually turns ugly at that point. |
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03-09-2007, 01:13 PM | #78 (permalink) | |
"I'm sorry. What was the question?"
Location: Paradise Regained
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I think I took all the elasticity out of that analogy I could. I hope it makes some sense. Maybe I'm just stoking a fire that many thought was gladly dying. I myself sometimes get tired of these kinds of discussions because they're so circular. Oh well, maybe there's some good to come of it.
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I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys |
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03-09-2007, 01:28 PM | #79 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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that's true daoust, but if i don't really know someone and they start in with the "my car is so great" speech, usually i just want to choke the everloving shit out of them, so they'll shut up and i can finish my coffee or whatnot.
one of the most insidious and annoying things about many christians down in the south is the part of their belief system that requires evangelism. you have to spread the word. i don't know woohog, i don't carry about little pamphlets about my overriding philosophies to drop on people. all things considered, i'd prefer they save the trees, so to speak. i'm 99% positive to throw it away or in a recycling bin.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
03-09-2007, 01:30 PM | #80 (permalink) | |
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umm yeah, if someone brags about how great their car is, and I don't know them, they'll get a grand ol' "Fuck off" from me. Piggie, you shouldn't be so quick to those those cartoon ones away.. they are fun to draw faces on and change words and hand it to someone else |
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