I love this game. Why is it that people "call you out" on stats when they themselves provide no supporting evidence.

If you like, go and scan the primary literature on epidemiology and/or the CDC for cold hard data on the effectiveness of the flu shot. You won't find any. Why is that? Well, its like the Schroedinger's cat experiment really .. all you can do is compare how effective the flu shot is at protecting the inoculated individual against that very same strain. And by the way, most people who get the flu shot suffer (maybe to a very slightly lesser degree) the exact symptoms they are trying to avoid.

Here are a few publications to consider:

Wilde, J. et al. 1999. Effectiveness of Influenza Vaccine in Health Care Professionals. JAMA. Vol. 281 No. 10

---(shows roughly 80% effectiveness against -same- strain exposure .. and NOT "general" flu exposure)

Gross, P. et al. 1995. The Efficacy of Influenza Vaccine in Elderly Persons. Annals of Internal Medicine. Vol. 123 No. 7

---meta analysis of many flu-vaccine studies indicates only slightly better than 50% efficacy in elderly

.. I would quote from journals that require you to have a subscription (ie. Nature, New England J. Medicine) but that would defeat the purpose and make me look like a snob. So my "evidence" ends here.

PS: where are your "stats" to support your claims?

Oh sorry, maybe I should have remained as ambiguous as you to prevent such petty scrutiny. And for what its worth "I believe" is not a very strong stance from which to nit-pick from. And 'innoculated' only as one n - ie. inoculated .. since we are going down that path now ...

Since we're in flu season again, here's a new article that I found interesting.
Doctor Recommends Avoiding Flu Shot, Taking Vitamin D Instead : Eco Child’s Play

Assuming the statistics are correct (and they are cited), it does seem a better option to take reasonable amounts of Vitamins such as D to help stave off the flu. Of course it's always wise to take multivitamins and eat a healthy, balanced, nutritious diet. That, along with exercise and making sure to wash your hands before eating, seems to be the best prescription for a flu-free season.

I've never had a flu shot in my entire life, and I've only had the flu itself on one occasion. I was 11 or so. My immune system seems to be highly effective, as I haven't experienced any form of illness in well over a year. Washing my hands, avoiding sick people, and refraining from touching my face while out undoubtedly contribute.

Shit, I didn't notice this pissant response last year.

You made statements of "fact" - I call you on an error and ask you to back others, and you lose your marbles.

I gave you sources - if you can't type "CDC" into a search engine, well, we really have nothing to discuss.

TFP is usually such a civil place ...

If I don't get a shot and I die from the flu, I deserved to die. Obviously my diet and lifestyle were not very healthy anyway. Fuck the vaccine. Why does the government push it down our throats so much?

I got my first flu shot ever this year. The company I work for was doing them for free and I thought that it was worth it. I would either not get sick with the flu and feel wonderful all winter, or I would get sick and get about a week off of work. I was cool with both of them.

I have a REALLY good immune system. When I was little I (fortunately?) got sick ALL of the time. Was always rushed to the hospital. Missed a lot of school. Now, if I get sick, it's a bad kind of sick. But, it's not often. Unfortunately, this also means that I can't take antibiotics. They gave them out like candy when I was little so my body is immune to them.

Bounce for a new year!

Do any flu-shot believers have any opinions to give me regarding FluMist (the live nasal spray)? My son hates injections, so I'm considering this for him this year.

This is all you need to know. It's been proven effective and safe unless you're in certain groups at risk for adverse reactions.
CDC - Seasonal Influenza (Flu) - Q & A: The Nasal-Spray Flu Vaccine (Live Attenuated Influenza Vaccine [LAIV])

Pretty much the same list as people who shouldn't get the inactivated injection. Thanks, MSD.

Never had a flu shot before, but I think I'll opt for it this year.

And this isn't a poll option so I won't be voting. :o.

A few notes on Flu Mist. If your son is exposed to any immunocompromised individuals he should not get Flu Mist as it is a weakened yet live virus. Many clinics do not offer Flu Mist as there are a number of concerns regarding the room that is used for dispensing it (negative pressure yada yada), not to mention staff concerns.

My best recommendation for children and vaccines is to give the child an ice pack before the procedure. Have the child apply the ice pack on the way to the clinic/drugstore/wherever he/she is receiving the vaccine. It #1 gives the child something in the situation that he/she can control. #2 It numbs the area resulting in a near painless injection.

Prevention is helpful, nutrition, rest and hygiene. Unfortunately all of those preventative techniques go out the window when a 2-year-old-virus-breathing-kid coughs on you. You can avoid touching this and that and use proper hand-hygiene but it isn't going to do a lick of good if someone coughs in your proximity.

As far as concerns about chemicals in the vaccines themselves, most clinics use only preservative-free vaccines anyways. Just ask at your clinic/vaccination site prior to your injection if this is your concern. The injectable flu vaccine is an inactivated virus, you cannot get the flu from an inactivated virus. If you happened to get ill after getting the vaccine I am willing to wager it has more to do with the breeding ground for infection that is known as the waiting area. Be sensible and wash your hands after going to the doctors office, even better do it once you get into the exam room. Yes, it is somewhat a gamble what strains are going to be the major strains of the year. The $25 shot is a lot cheaper than a week off of work which is currently recommended (if not required at most offices now due to the H1N1) for febrile flu-like illnesses.

I tend to get what I've been vaccinated for and I know that there are a whole slew of experts that will tell you that the chances of that are so minuscule that it's well-neigh impossible, but I'm that minuscule percentage. I know they don't actually use smallpox to make the smallpox vaccine, but what ever pox they do use, I got. Same with Yellow Fever - neither one of those were very much fun. So...I've never had the flu and I don't particularly want it so I'm opting out of the vaccine.

Blessings!
Duskwynd

Those are both live vaccines. Is it possible that they may have been contraindicated for you based on your health status at the time? Dosage intervals, steroid use, compromised immunity because of concurrent illness or recent illness, immunosuppression, eczema, chemotherapy, recent blood transfusions, gamma globulin injections all contraindicate these types of vaccines just to name a few. I don't know your story but I know the military has made a lot of mistakes in vaccine timing that can/has caused more harm than benefit.

I had never been one for flu shots until last year. My company provides them for free, and since I was taking my wife in for one AND I share a small office with two other people, I decided it was in my best interest. As far as I'm concerned, I'll keep getting them as long as the company provides them.

I work in a hospital and it's expected that all employees get a flu shot. Several clinic days are set up to accommodate everyone's schedule, although I got mine from my family doctor. It's the first one I ever had and it was a total miss on the strains that showed up this year. I didn't get sick, but then I haven't had the flu often in the past either.

I would just like to point out that this link hardly constitutes proof of safety and effectiveness. It would be more useful if the CDC referenced the "large study" more specifically than by simply referring to it as a "large study."

According to the website, the adults in the "large study" who got sick weren't tested for influenza. Why not? Why would a study whose purpose is to evaluate the effectiveness of a flu vaccine not go to the lengths required to determine if its participants actually got the flu? Perhaps there is a perfectly good reason for this, but without any more information, the conclusion that The Nasal-Spray Flu Vaccine is effective at reducing the flu rate in adults should be treated as suspect. Especially in light of the millions of dollars at stake. It isn't completely out of the question that this "large study" was paid for by the company responsible for The Nasal-Spray Flu Vaccine, which would give them veto power over how the data was interpreted, and even possibly what data the researchers got to see.

It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but from my understanding it's actually pretty commonplace (see Lipitor, Celebrex, Vioxx, statins, etc.)

Based on my (very quick and cursory) research, it appears that the way to test for influenza is a blood test to find antigens. But, if you have had a flu shot, you will also have antigens; that's what it does. In other words, 100% of people who have had the flu shot should "test positive" for flu antigens.

This along with:

Sounds like a recipe for spreading flu rather than preventing it.

That kind of makes sense, but it seems odd that they would be able to test children for flu illness in one study, but not adults in another study.

It would be useful to be able to read that actual studies; it's bad science writing to refer to the results of a study without also giving a citation for the study. The actual data might be much more informative than the summary given in the link.

I got mine a couple of weeks ago, as I do every year.

i got the swine flu vaccine 2 weeks ago. its free in australia who is prone to swineflu or is a parent to newlyborns

You know, I don't normally get flu shots, but I'm thinking of getting one this year. (Well, two, apparently.)

I think this is one of those situations where you should go out of the way to take special precautions. It could get really nasty, and I'm willing to take what I can get to protect myself.

This isn't just any other year for the flu.

The entire Robot clan will be getting both. My son has asthma, which is reason enough to get the seasonal one even if I were otherwise on the fence. One of the interesting things about H1N1 is how many 'otherwise healthy' people are dying from it, whereas the regular seasonal flu tends to kill of people with weaker immune systems - the old, infants, and people with compromised immune systems.

Allow me to plug this blog again.

I'm getting vaccinated this year. H1N1 isn't something I can stave off by eating well, getting enough sleep and exercising. I don't have antibodies for the strain yet.

As I said earlier, I've already had the yearly flu vaccine. I plan to get the H1N1 also when it becomes available. Last week, the college where we live gave H1N1 vaccines to college students and employees. They had doses left over which means some students are ignoring the danger. No word yet on when "regular" people will be able to receive vaccinations. Have any of you heard of an arrival date for the H1N1 vaccines where you live? I can't get any info.

According to the Ontario government, everyone has access to the N1H1 vaccine in November. The seasonal vaccine is currently being administered to anyone over 65 or anyone in a long-term care home.

Come December/January, the rest of us will get the seasonal vaccine.

I'm just glad the anti-vax movement is losing momentum in the media. I'll be geting both shots ass soon as I'm over this bronchitis.

It might be losing momentum in the media, but I'm sure there are still plenty of people afraid of the possibility of long-term problems. And I think the medical researchers (and vested interests holding back any negative findings) are to blame. Even if it may or may not be true. I mean, what would have happened if they came out and said that mercury in vaccines cause certain illnesses? Could you imagine the scope of the lawsuits? There would be nobody who would want to have anything to do with vaccine production.

I'll be getting the H1N1 vaccine because I worry about getting it from other people in public. The issue is that I have a low risk of getting this compared to other groups. And the health industry isn't doing very well getting the vaccine out to those that are high risk in a orderly fashion in th big cities (lines start at 3am for high risk groups), and they run out.

And I have no faith in the American public at maintaining a true quarantine of any length. And the more people rely on tamiflu, the more chance that it will mutate into a new strain.

To add to this, there have also been a few situations where cutting edge medical advice and safety assurances have proven to be either misinformed or premature, despite the fact that they were passed off as the god's honest truth. Hormone replacement therapy anyone?

I'm not taking a side on the vaccine subject, I just might have gotten a swine flu vaccine if I didn't accidentally just go ahead and get the swine flu. I'm just saying that there are sometimes good reasons to be suspicious of the correctness of status quo medical advice.

I didn't used to get a flu shot, but now since I have been diagnosed with a chronic illness, my doctor insists. He would just roll his eyes at my "new age, hippie, natural home remedies."

The H1N1 shot is free at my county health department (for which I used to work.) I will be going to the clinic to get stuck this week at their flu clinic. I called my former co-worker and she's saving a Scooby Doo band aid for me. It pays to know people!

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I have never taken seasonal flu vaccinations. I haven't had a bad case of flu in recent years. Swine flu shots aren't available here yet, and I was not planning on taking it.

Same thing happened to me - I caught the flu in February of '08 while I was recuperating from surgery. The 2007/2008 flu season was one of the "miss" years in the hit-or-miss seasonal flu vaccine. Usually, though, they hit it right.

The H1N1 vaccine is a slam-dunk, though - they identified the virus in April and know exactly what they're dealing with. If you get the H1N1 vaccine and still get the swine flu, it's only going to be because you already contracted it before your immune system could produce antibodies. There's no hit-or-miss where H1N1 is concerned.

I would get it in a heartbeat if it were available here. But right now the meager supplies are being reserved for healthcare workers, children, and pregnant women. As soon as it becomes available to adults, I'll go get one, if I haven't already caught the flu by then.

In the meantime, I have four bottles of Purell in my house and car, and use it whenever I think of it.

I can get one through the VA, but I haven't got one in quite some time.

only once for me; never again...

Our local health department will be administering the H1N1 vaccinations next Saturday from 9 - 3. I'll be there.

One other thought - for those who are worried about H1N1 and the lack of vaccines.

The worst cases (death or extended hospitalization) are due to a double whammy of the flu and bacterial pneumonia. The flu attacks the respiratory system and immune system so badly that, even after someone seems to be improving, they catch pneumonia and get much worse. Most of the deadly cases are due to this.

Even though there may be a shortage of flu vaccine, there is no shortage of pneumonia vaccine. If you go get a pneumonia vaccine, at least if you catch the H1N1 flu, you won't run the risk of having it followed by pneumonia. That will probably ensure that you will remain in the 99.5% of cases that suffer no greater effects than those of the seasonal flu. Nothing is certain, though . . . . .

ps - Pneumonia shots are good for about 10 years, too - they're not required annually.

In Ohio last week, at the Canfield Local Schools, every child was given a vaccine for H1N1 unless they were not allowed and have a note from their parent or a parent "with them" at school to tell the administrators not to give their child the shot.

This makes me feel a lot better since most of my friends' kids go to this school. Now to help the elderly around here & fast.

Actually, people under the age of 65 are considered more at risk to H1N1 than those over 65. People 65 and older have more "experienced" immune systems and can fight off the virus better than those with less exposure to a lifetime of viruses. Of course, they are the high-risk category for the seasonal flu, though, and should get that vaccine if they haven't already.

Also, there was a widespread outbreak in the U.S. of a very similar flu strain in the mid-1930s, so many doctors consider anyone alive then (age 75 or older now) to have at least partial immunity to the 2009 H1N1 strain.

And, as I said a couple of posts above, the one-two punch of flu + pneumonia is what is killing people, and many seniors have already taken their doctors' advice and have been vaccinated against bacterial pneumonia.

With children and pregnant women being vaccinated; and those over 65 considered "low risk," the high risk category for now is adults aged 25-65. Especially those 50-65, because they will not be given the more plentiful nasal vaccine, because it was never tested on anyone over 49.

So, say you were aged 54 and more likely to get bronchitis in the winter months, would you be looking for the H1N1 shot or just willing to tough it out?

PS. Glad I finally made out a Will, just in case...

I would suggest getting the seasonal flu and pneumonia vaccines ASAP and get the H1N1 vaccine as soon as it is available (it's looking like early January for non-high risk adults - at least in my neck of the woods) By that time, it may be too late. In the meantime, staple a bottle of Purell to your sleeve, wash your hands every time you blink, and stay away from crowded places. If your primary care physician is familiar with your respiratory problems, perhaps he/she could help you get a vaccination. Other than that - you'll be made a pariah if you stand in line "keeping a child or pregnant woman from getting theirs."

Our local news station was at a vaccination clinic last week, and I thought some of the parents were going to tar and feather anyone over 18 standing in line. How dare they steal from the children? Forget the fact that many of those adults had lupus or asthma. :rolleyes:

Thank you very much for that information. I'll add that the pneumonia vaccine appears to be part of the standard list of vaccines given to children these days (my son is 7), so now we're a bit less worried about our son. We all already have the seasonal, I'll think I'll take a trip today for the pneumonia as well.

Actually, the strains of the flu prevalent in the late 1950's also seem to convey some degree of resistance to H1N1 due to the similarities in the strains. People who were alive then (anyone much over 50) may already have limited immunity.

Our county health department administered free H1N1 vaccines today. I got mine. 20 minute wait at 9:30am. They were expecting no crowds at all by noon, and they were scheduled to go until 3:00. I was expecting a very long wait, so I was very surprised.

I voted that I have never gotten one, but I had my first one yesterday. My school was having free H1N1 vaccines, and seeing as I'm going to travel overseas to an area that is currently afflicted with H1N1, I figured it'd be extremely smart to get vaccinated.

Wish I could change my vote. I feel like a dirty liar now.

I've had a couple flu shots in my life, but I don't get them every year. And I'm not getting the H1N1 vaccine.

I couldn't get a flu shot right now if I tried.

Not to mention that if you're getting it, it's probably flu season. I can't imagine how someone could get the flu then.
I fucked two girls with condoms, they both got pregnant anyway, so why bother use condomw?
Lobar Pneumonia infections were the worst experiences of my life. I made the stupid mistake of "it might be viral, let's give it a day to clear up before we start antibiotics." Two days later, in the ER, hallucinating due to the 106° fever about the big metal machine that was coming to ... absorb me. The doctor said in his long career he has only seen a few patients who managed to melt their earwax. IV fluids for 6 hours, ice packed around me to get my temperature down until the ibuprofen did something, and the sympathetic nurses who would rub my shoulder and reassure me that I was going to be fine (didn't hurt that they were hot) until I was down to a safe, maintainable 102° and could go home.

I wish I know they had a shot for it.
If you're likely to get bronchitis, you're in a risk group and need the vaccine.
If you were around in 1957 or before, you most likely have H1N1 antibodies that will drop this to a mild seasonal flu if you get any symptoms indistinguishable from the common cold.