what to do when stopped by a cop for no reason? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dawnoffawn · 07-19-2006, 07:27 PM

I was stopped by a cop during rush hour and traffic and close to my home...I was in the left lane and was about to switch lanes in order to go the to rightest lane to go into my exit when the cop showedup from nowhere and was switching lanes with me. I wasn't speeding or anything.
He gave me a ticket after taking my id and registration and staying in his car for 10 minutes.
I feel that this was not just and that I was singled out and discriminated against.
First we were all in traffic so there was no way I was speeding.
Second he claimed that the speed limit in the highway was "50" according to him (I think it really is 55!) and that I was speeding "from 55 to 60" and he wrote "60" so that I have to pay more since 10-14 over the limit is charged $95.
How do I prove in court that I am innocent?
Is there anything I say that can be used against me?
What if he "showed" them a radar of 55 or 60? How can I prove that this is ont true especially since if it shows that, it means that happened while trying to switch lanes in order to pull over for the cop.
I feel discriminated agaist and that the cop's act was not justifiable.

If I get pulled over again, could I ask them the reason before showing them my id's? Can I ask for thier name and proof before giving out any of my id's?
What are my rights?
Please help.
Thanks in advance.

Zeraph · 07-19-2006, 07:49 PM

Here's a couple possible helpful websites:
http://www.ehow.com/how_18002_decide-whether-fight.html
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/tra...g_tickets.html

I believe there are some threads around here that have talked about this as well.

Willravel · 07-19-2006, 07:50 PM

*Willravel gets pulled over*
*officer approaches*
*before the officer can say anything, Willravel rolls down the window only a few inches and says*,"Is there a problem officer?
*Stunned, the officer tries the old routine*, "License and registration. Do you know how fast you were going?"
Willravel: *handing over license and registration through the few inches that the window is open* "No officer. Is there a problem?"
Officer: "You were going 45."
Willravel: "..." (you do not have to admit any guilt in this case. you can simply stare blankly. If you have said you don't know how fast you were going, you are admitting no wrong doing. Remember: it's not a crime to say you don't know how fast you were going)
Officer: "Do you know the speed limit?"
Willravel: "No, sir."
Officer: "It's 40 here."
Willravel: "..."
Officer: "Step out of the car please."
Willravel: *steps out of the car, CLOSES AND LOCKS THE VEHICLE* "Is there a problem officer?"
Officer: "Why'd you lock the car?"
Willravel: "Habit." (Please note that this a-hole probably was going to try and search my vehicle without a warent. Closing it and locking it basically stops him completly)
Officer: "Do you have any illegal contraband in your vehicle?"
Willravel: "No, sir."
Officer: "Then you don't mind if I take a look." (this is a very common ploy. If I were to say, "sure", then I would be waving my right)
Willravel: "Actually, I do mind. Are you going to write me a ticket, sir?"
Officer: "..."
Willravel: Booyah!!

Hundove, you admitted guilt to speeding. What you said is being used against you and is, unfortunately, 100% legal. Unless you somehow get some serious sympathy and luck your way, you'll have to pay. Next time, let the officer do all the talking, so as to avoid falling into his or her trap. The only way to fight this is to prove that the speed limit was 55, the flow of traffic was actually moving fast than you, and that the officer lied. 5 mph over the limit is nothing, and will usually be thrown out.

Let me know if you need any help. Civil rights are my speciality.

dawnoffawn · 07-19-2006, 08:03 PM

Thank you so much, Zeraph!
Thanks so much, Willravel! I was not speeding and the only thing Itold the officer was "How was I speeding if we were in traffic and that I am close to my home?" So, I did not admit to speeding or anything, since I wasn't speeding.Do I have any lucking in going to court and pleading not guilty? Does it cost to go to court?
Thx!

Willravel · 07-19-2006, 08:17 PM

I've taken 2 tickets to court and have won both. Go take a picture of the speed limit sign and bring it in with you as proof. Ask why the officer wasn't aware of the speed limit as he wrote your ticket. If the speed limit was 50 for some odd reason, you still might be able to beat this. Explain how you have a spotless driving record. Explain that you were observing the rules of the road when you were driving with the flow of traffic. Above all, show as much respect as possible. You are a victim, and the judge had nothing to do with the dick police officer.

Edit: your driving record is availabe from the DMV, and usually runs something like $5-$10. Remember, the reason you are fighting this is two fold: 1) sticking up for what you believe in and 2) making sure your insurence doesn't go up.

- Only about 3% of tickets are contested
- 20-25% of the time, the police officer that wrote the ticket doesn't show, which means the ticket will usually be thrown out

ngdawg · 07-19-2006, 09:11 PM

You got a ticket for just 5 miles over??? Definitely go to court. I'd be willing to bet the officer doesn't show.
You must have resembled his ex or something...
Willravel gave good advice. Rehearse at home how you will speak to the judge so you don't stammer in court, too. And it helps if you carefully read over the information on the ticket including jurisdiction. One error and it's null and void.

analog · 07-20-2006, 02:28 AM

I'm going to ignore everything else since willravel has taken care of it, but this point...

Exactly how were you "discriminated against"?

Jinn · 07-20-2006, 07:16 AM

WAAAAAAA WAAAAAA.

"Going with traffic" or being "close to home" are not mutually exclusive to speeding. How exactly were you discriminated against? Your car got pulled over out of everyone ELSE who was ALSO speeding? What are you, 12? I'm an unfortunately chronic speeder and I've had my share of tickets, but I take RESPONSIBILITY for my actions.

Denying your actions, blaming other people, or trying to weasle out of a punishment are NOT mature actions. Was the officer rude to you? Did he proposition you? Perform an illegal search? Tell me what law he violated or how he "discriminated" against you and you'll have a shred of credibility. I'm giving you tough love because a judge who hears this is going to hear the exact same thing as me. "But Judge, everyone ELSE was speeding too!" "Officer X discriminated against me and pulled me over!!!"

BOO HOO.

Frankly, its unfortunate that this case is going to resolve itself like it will. You're going to go before the DA (not even in a court room) and he's going to offer you a charge of "defective vehicle" or "obscured view," zero point charges with a minimal fine -- because he's too busy to prosecute a small case like yours. And it's unfortunate, because you won't learn the real lesson here. You do something wrong, TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR IT.

I apologize somewhat for the tone, but I read another forum at realpolice.net and there are 10-15 posts of this same tone -- "Mr Evil Cop discriminated against me and pulled me over for no reason.. what do I do?"

It's all whiny jerks who don't feel like being ADULTS and handling the manner in a responsible way.

Ample · 07-20-2006, 07:26 AM

I heard this not sure if it is true or not, but the speed limit is actually only the suggested speed limit, and unless it says max speed XXmph they can give you leniency. If you explain that there was light traffic and the road conditions were ideal and that there was no pedestrian in the area, it all works in your favor.

shakran · 07-20-2006, 07:27 AM

JinnKai, before we get too excited here, we need to determine if she really was speeding. She has said multiple times that she wasn't speeding. What evidence do you have that she is lying about that? If you have none (and unless you're the cop who wrote the ticket, I don't see how you could have any) then your entire post was out of line.

Hundove it's gonna basically boil down to the size of the town. If it's a small town / sparsely populated county then 1) the prosecutor is bored and wants someone to prosecute and 2) the prosecutor, and the cop, are friends with the judge, probably hang out at the bar after work together, and unless you come up with some sort of incontrovertible proof that the cop's full of it, you're going to lose. Period.

I once got a BS ticket for 2 mph over in a 55 zone in a small Nebraska county I was passing through. I fought it, and lost, even though I proved the cop 1) didn't know how his radar worked 2) had never been certified in using his radar, 3) had never calibrated his radar, and 4) did not have a calibrated speedometer in his car. Any one of these facts should have automatically tossed the case out but it was a case of a small town "justice" system where everyone knew everyone else, and this was an easy way to put a few bucks in the town coffers.

Does that mean you shouldn't fight it? No, absolutely you should fight it, but unless you walk in there with a lawyer, you're almost guaranteed to lose, unless it's a large metro area where they don't have time to dick around with stupid little speeding tickets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ample

I heard this not sure if it is true or not, but the speed limit is actually only the suggested speed limit, and unless it says max speed XXmph they can give you leniency. If you explain that there was light traffic and the road conditions were ideal and that there was no pedestrian in the area, it all works in your favor.

That is not true. The speed limit is the speed limit. The YELLOW speed limit signs are "suggested" speed limits, however a cop can still nab you if he feels you were driving "too fast for conditions" which is a very convenient charge since the cop gets to define the parameters. Very hard to get out of one of those.

Jinn · 07-20-2006, 07:57 AM

Quote:

JinnKai, before we get too excited here, we need to determine if she really was speeding. She has said multiple times that she wasn't speeding. What evidence do you have that she is lying about that? If you have none (and unless you're the cop who wrote the ticket, I don't see how you could have any) then your entire post was out of line.

I cannot. But in the case of an accuser who has undergone YEARS of training and has YEARS of on-the-job experience versus someone who has just been charged with a crime.. the accuser has crediblity. It's very rare that the accused would EVER admit wrongdoing. That's how it works. So while I can't say Hundove wasn't speeding.. the police officer has about 10 times more credibility than someone who is denying they did anything wrong with an excuse of "discrimination." And that's exactly how any sensible judge would see it.

maleficent · 07-20-2006, 07:58 AM

I believe you live in NJ, so were you stopped by a local cop or a State Trooper?The staties in NJ at one point, was pretty well known for giving out citations around the bigger cities especially Newark and Trenton (and I think youlive around Newark if I recall) for "Driving while black" that was a few years ago, and they have since gone thru "sensitivity training" you'd have a tough time making a discrimination suit.

Bill O'Rights · 07-20-2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

I once got a BS ticket for 2 mph over in a 55 zone in a small Nebraska county I was passing through. ...it was a case of a small town "justice" system where everyone knew everyone else, and this was an easy way to put a few bucks in the town coffers.

And we appreciate it. Y'all come back now, Y'hea?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ample

I heard this not sure if it is true or not, but the speed limit is actually only the suggested speed limit, and unless it says max speed XXmph they can give you leniency.

Ummmm...no. The Speed Limit is just that. Speed Limit. It's not the Speed Reallyreallygoodidea. Suggested speed limit...that's funny.

JinnKai? Lighten up a little, man. There were better ways of presenting your case, and you darn well know it. Some of that was just flat out unnecessary. Uncool...capiche?

absorbentishe · 07-20-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

Exactly how were you "discriminated against"?

That's what I want to know?? Do you have a "flashy" car, big boobs the cop just wanted to see, what??

Do tell, we're all waiting, thanks!

ratbastid · 07-20-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

*Willravel gets pulled over*
*officer approaches*
*before the officer can say anything, Willravel rolls down the window only a few inches and says*,"Is there a problem officer?
etc

Yep. That's exactly how to handle it. Cops are all about tricking you into self-incrimination.

The other magic phrase, if a cop is playing mind games with you, is "Are you detaining me, officer, or am I free to go?"

soccerchamp76 · 07-20-2006, 11:41 AM

Here are some more tips if you get pulled over:
1) Show the police officer respect. Address him as "sir" or "officer".
2) Do NOT admit guilt in any form. "I was only going 65mph [say limit is 60mph]", you have admitted to a crime already and you are toast.
3) Do not rationalize your driving. Going with the flow of traffic is the worst excuse you can have. If you see a bank robbery, and join in, is that excusable? Extreme case, but it makes my point. A friend of mine was pulled over going with the flow of traffic and the cop said to his response, "Son, you were the last person in the flow and right in front of me. Bad luck for you."
4) Traffic stops are highly dangerous for police officers as they have no idea who you are and what you are capable of. At night, when pulled over, turn your car off, take out the keys and place them on the dashboard [he knows you aren't a flight risk], keep your lights on, put your emergency flashers on, and turn your inside car light on with your hands on the steering wheel. With the inside lights on, he can see you and will feel safer about the process. A more comfortable cop is a nicer cop.

frogza · 07-20-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ample

I heard this not sure if it is true or not, but the speed limit is actually only the suggested speed limit, and unless it says max speed XXmph they can give you leniency. If you explain that there was light traffic and the road conditions were ideal and that there was no pedestrian in the area, it all works in your favor.

As everyone has said, that is not true. In fact some states (like the one I live in) have a law that essentially says "All roads have a speed limit of 25 mph unless otherwise posted"

I got pulled over once while visiting some family in California. I was in a traffic jam near LA, when I say traffic jam I mean I was parked on the 5. The officer worked his way behind me, which took about 20 minutes due to the traffic. He turned on his lights and it took us another 5-10 minutes to get the side of the road. He made me get out of the car and asked me a bunch of questions, basicly to find out if I should have my plates changed to California plates. Once he realized that he couldn't get me for having the wrong plates, he made me run through the whole drunk driving tests. Once that failed, he issued me a ticket for following to closely. Needless to say I was rather angry. Since I couldn't make it back to Ca. to fight it in court I had to pay the fine.

My point in sharing this is to illustrate that their are far more blatant examples of police abusing their authority. Mine isn't by any means the worst case scenario either. Though the OP's story is unfortunate, I wouldn't pull the discrimation card quite yet, at least not without substantial proof.

Toaster126 · 07-21-2006, 08:43 AM

Willravel's story works except for the fact that you will definitely get a ticket if you do that. If you didn't do anything illegal, they'll write one saying you did anyway, and the burden of proof is on you to prove you didn't do whatever it is.

Also, the whole locking the car bit is fun, but they can 1-up you with the "ok, I need to call in the drug dog, wait here" and waste a lot of your time.

Or maybe I just need to stop looking black...

maleficent · 07-21-2006, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

*Willravel gets pulled over*
*officer approaches*
*before the officer can say anything, Willravel rolls down the window only a few inches and says*,"Is there a problem officer?
*Stunned, the officer tries the old routine*, "License and registration. Do you know how fast you were going?"
Willravel: *handing over license and registration through the few inches that the window is open* "No officer. Is there a problem?"
Officer: "You were going 45."
Willravel: "..." (you do not have to admit any guilt in this case. you can simply stare blankly. If you have said you don't know how fast you were going, you are admitting no wrong doing. Remember: it's not a crime to say you don't know how fast you were going)
Officer: "Do you know the speed limit?"
Willravel: "No, sir."
Officer: "It's 40 here."
Willravel: "..."
Officer: "Step out of the car please."
Willravel: *steps out of the car, CLOSES AND LOCKS THE VEHICLE* "Is there a problem officer?"
Officer: "Why'd you lock the car?"
Willravel: "Habit." (Please note that this a-hole probably was going to try and search my vehicle without a warent. Closing it and locking it basically stops him completly)
Officer: "Do you have any illegal contraband in your vehicle?"
Willravel: "No, sir."
Officer: "Then you don't mind if I take a look." (this is a very common ploy. If I were to say, "sure", then I would be waving my right)
Willravel: "Actually, I do mind. Are you going to write me a ticket, sir?"
Officer: "..."
Willravel: Booyah!!
.

I'd seriously like to see you try that in some areas of NJ - maybe in crunchy granola land that'd fly -but in NJ -- you might be having a conversation with a billy club - or at best your ass would be sitting in jail...

pig · 07-21-2006, 10:26 AM

hundlove,

most likely, unless you know someone behind the scenes, you're going to eat it. i'm pretty sure you can ask the court to produce the evidence against you; I know some attourney's who claim to have gotten out of tickets asking for evidence disclosure. However, I think that in most places, the word of the cop is enough to stand.

will - pull that off and i'll give you credit for large titanium cojones. i've usually had pretty good luck with being friendly with the cops myself. if i was going to pull that lock trick, i'd hit the powerlocks on the way out from the inside. chances are, the cop might not even know you locked up.

ratbastid · 07-21-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

I'd seriously like to see you try that in some areas of NJ - maybe in crunchy granola land that'd fly -but in NJ -- you might be having a conversation with a billy club - or at best your ass would be sitting in jail...

That's a negative. Will was following perfectly the script that the ACLU provides for interacting with police at a traffic stop. I promise, any cop will dance this dance with you and leave you with nothing more than a ticket. If they don't, you've got their ass for harassment, and they know it.

That doesn't mean you have to be smug or rude with them. Be polite and respectful as you would to anyone you interact with who is doing their job. But don't ever forget that his job is to charge you with a crime and discover enough evidence to make the charge stick.

pig · 07-21-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

That's a negative. Will was following perfectly the script that the ACLU provides for interacting with police at a traffic stop. I promise, any cop will dance this dance with you and leave you with nothing more than a ticket. If they don't, you've got their ass for harassment, and they know it.

i hear you bastid, but I'd be damn sure that either I had witnesses or he had a camera rolling or something. In my experience, cops really don't like a smartass, or what they might perceive as being a smartass. I guess it also depends on how much I stand to lose if the cop gets testy. Either way, if its a straight they said / I said situation, I'm not going to bet that my verbal account does anything to nullify the official account given by the officer. Then again, I'm (obviously) not an attourney.

Average_Joe · 07-21-2006, 12:27 PM

If you truly feel you have been violated, it might be worth it for your own vindication to get a lawyer and fight it. Perhaps this one particular officer has a reputation within his profession for controversial arrests or traffic stops. It might be worth more time and effort to go this route, but at least you will have peace of mind if you win.

Willravel · 07-21-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

will - pull that off and i'll give you credit for large titanium cojones. i've usually had pretty good luck with being friendly with the cops myself. if i was going to pull that lock trick, i'd hit the powerlocks on the way out from the inside. chances are, the cop might not even know you locked up.

I've been doing it for over 5 years. I'd say I've used it at least 6 or 7 times. Some of the cops get annoyed, but that's it. Oh, yeah, and a big 10-4 on the powerlocks. Try to make it quick and subtle, or I suspect they'll give you crap for it.

pig · 07-21-2006, 12:43 PM

Well, I always suspected you had basketball-sized taint slappers.

maleficent · 07-21-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

I've been doing it for over 5 years. I'd say I've used it at least 6 or 7 times.

you've been stopped that many times in a few years? I think someone needs to take drivers education ...

Willravel · 07-21-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

you've been stopped that many times in a few years? I think someone needs to take drivers education ...

Something I'm not proud of is to blame: I used ot be an illegal street racer with one of those dumb little civics ('94 HB, w/ b18, ins and outs, custom cam, OZ rims, Koni adjustables, etc.). Those tend to attract a lot of attention, espically from John Law. I decided since that it was a bad idea, and stopped. I've not been pulled over in maybe a year and a half, and the last time was for registration being a month late.

krwlz · 07-21-2006, 03:40 PM

Just a quick point... Admitting guilt can screw you over, but on the other hand, on the day you get pulled over for 84 mph in a 55... when you know you were closer to 90... Where the conversation went like this after the trooper pulled me over in his camaro on my way to calculus:

Cop: So... What class you late for?
Me: Calculus...
Cop: What time is it?
Me: 10:20 sir
Cop: What time does calc start?
Me: 10...
Cop: You know you're already late right?
Me: Yea...
Cop: So you know how fast you were going?
Me: (Loud sigh as I hand him the paperwork) had to be over 80...
Cop: Clocked you at 84... I'll be right back, k?
Me: ....
(At this point I'd like to point out he was giving me a little break... 2 more points for one more mph over the limit)
cop comes back
Cop: Alright, I wrote you this ticket, 84 in a 55, see here on the back? Just sign here, pleade of not guilty, come into court the second date, and we'll work something out. Your insurance won't like this ticket.
Me: Alright, have a good one sir
Cop: You too, drive safe.

Fast Forward to hearing,... Got there a half hour early. Cop gets there 20 minutes early

Cop: Hows it going today?
Me: Alright all things considered
Cop: You were late to a class right? What class was that?
Me: Calc
Cop: Ouch, that sucks to be you. Alright, you were honest and polite on the side of the road, and that means a lot, at least to me, so I'm going to write you a parking ticket. If thats ok with you, sign here...

Cop gets to leave before the hearing even gets started, I walk out with a 135 dollar fine and no points. Honesty and courtesy can be just as effective as playing word games with a cop.

snowy · 07-21-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krwlz

Honesty and courtesy can be just as effective as playing word games with a cop.

This has always worked for me. I always address them by their correct title and am exceedingly polite: so far I have only gotten warnings (well, except for a failure to yield ticket I got in a car accident...but he could have dinged me for reckless driving and didn't, which would have been much more expensive).

For instance, I was pulled over in a 55-mph construction zone (double fine) doing 84. My mother was following me, and pulled over behind the police officer. He talked to her first, she explained we were moving me back to college that day, and we were in a hurry--all the while being very apologetic. The cop comes to my door, he asks where I go to school, and I tell him Oregon State. He asks what my GPA was my last report card. It was a 3.89. He says, "And a 4.0 is perfect, right?" I say yes, he takes my license and registration and goes to run it. The whole time I am shaking but polite.

He comes back and he says, well, a good girl like you--with no tickets and such good grades--doesn't deserve to get a ticket today. He told me to slow down and that it was a shame I hadn't decided to go to Washington State instead.

I've gotten pulled over around town here in incidents that could be construed as harassment, simply because the police here will pull you over for any minor infraction, sniffing around for a hopeful DUI. But every time I am exceptionally polite, over-explanatory, and do not admit any guilt. When they ask if I knew such-and-such a thing was out, I always say, "No, I did not! Thank you for informing me, Officer. I'll make sure to get it looked at first thing tomorrow." Nevermind that the light-out light on my dash is on (whoops). But before I know it--I'm on my merry little way.

balefire88 · 07-21-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

I'm an unfortunately chronic speeder and I've had my share of tickets, but I take RESPONSIBILITY for my actions.

Denying your actions, blaming other people, or trying to weasle out of a punishment are NOT mature actions.

[...]

It's all whiny jerks who don't feel like being ADULTS and handling the manner in a responsible way.

So, the mature thing to do is to pay your ticket, and then continue being a "chronic speeder?" If anything, the fact that you are not slowing down shows that you are also not following the "mature" action.

Now, the OP felt discriminated against. He failed to provide sufficient evidence to that effect, so it is right to question him about it. However, remember that cops are human too. They make mistakes, and appealing tickets in court is one way to fight bad tickets. The OP also did mention that he the cop wrote the high end of a speed range on his ticket, might have even had the speed limit wrong. These are valid reasons to appeal not just to overturn the ticket, but to justly get it reduced in cost. Obviously, there are people who will abuse the system to get tickets they justly received revoked. But this applies to our entire judicial system, if not every system in our soceity.

newtx · 07-21-2006, 06:18 PM

Go to court if you can.Plead not guilty. I'll bet the officer doesn't even show up. Case dismissed.

Smooth23 · 07-21-2006, 07:55 PM

Around here the easiest way to get a ticket thrown out is to just go into court. Almost always the judge will drop the fine and make you pay court costs ($40 last time it happened to a friend). For me its worked twice to just go in, ask for the proof against you and if the officer can't provide proof you get no point no fine, ticket is null and void. At least in the city I've always pulled over in, it helps that most people in court on whatever day you go in, are there for dui's, drugs or worse, so having someone fighting a ticket is the least of a judges problems.

asaris · 07-21-2006, 09:03 PM

Smooth, I've never seen that. Standard operating procedure where I work, for tickets that aren't terribly excessive, is to amend the ticket to an improper muffler (which is a non-moving violation). You end up paying more for the ticket, but don't get the points. And most judges won't drop the ticket (and no judge should drop the ticket) without consulting with the prosecutor anyway. Perhaps the point is, it depends on jurisdiction... But it should be noted that, depending on the ticket, the testimony of the officer is going to be enough to get the proof the court needs.

What I would recommend is that the OP talk to the prosecutor before deciding whether or not to go to trial. If the prosecutor's feeling nice, he'll just drop the charges, and you won't have to go to trial, and prosecutor's are generally a bit less trigger happy than officers (since they tend to know what the law actually is).

krwlz · 07-21-2006, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

This has always worked for me. I always address them by their correct title and am exceedingly polite: so far I have only gotten warnings (well, except for a failure to yield ticket I got in a car accident...but he could have dinged me for reckless driving and didn't, which would have been much more expensive).

For instance, I was pulled over in a 55-mph construction zone (double fine) doing 84. My mother was following me, and pulled over behind the police officer. He talked to her first, she explained we were moving me back to college that day, and we were in a hurry--all the while being very apologetic. The cop comes to my door, he asks where I go to school, and I tell him Oregon State. He asks what my GPA was my last report card. It was a 3.89. He says, "And a 4.0 is perfect, right?" I say yes, he takes my license and registration and goes to run it. The whole time I am shaking but polite.

He comes back and he says, well, a good girl like you--with no tickets and such good grades--doesn't deserve to get a ticket today. He told me to slow down and that it was a shame I hadn't decided to go to Washington State instead.

I've gotten pulled over around town here in incidents that could be construed as harassment, simply because the police here will pull you over for any minor infraction, sniffing around for a hopeful DUI. But every time I am exceptionally polite, over-explanatory, and do not admit any guilt. When they ask if I knew such-and-such a thing was out, I always say, "No, I did not! Thank you for informing me, Officer. I'll make sure to get it looked at first thing tomorrow." Nevermind that the light-out light on my dash is on (whoops). But before I know it--I'm on my merry little way.

Well no offense... But I'm a guy. I don't get warnings too often, I get plea bargains. WHich is still cheaper than the 3 15+ mph over speedings, failure to stop, and following too closely (fender bender... drivers safety course, reduced to parking by DA). The only two I didn't get reduced were a seatbelt , and a failure to signal, which the cop didnt show for so it got dropped.

Oh yea, and that "Illegal left turn" I got nailed for last week because it was 5:45, and not 6pm yet....

Haha, but yea, politness... goes a serious long way.

Oh, one other pointer... WHEN YOU GO TO COURT (First time, plead not guilty, they'll reschedule you, officer shows up second time.. at least in new york... then the officer usually will offer a plea bargain if you haven't worked things out with the judge... Not points that way)...

WEAR NICE CLOTHES!!!! If you come looking like a scumbag, you're fucked. Slacks and a shirt, if not a tie, and you will fair MUCH BETTER

thingstodo · 07-22-2006, 06:58 AM

If the speed limit really was 50 and you got a ticket for going over 55, it shopws that the officer has no credibility. He either lied about the 55 limit or didn't know. Either way, his evidence is now suspect.

What does being close to home have to do with anything?

and a bump to what krwlz said...

Willravel · 07-22-2006, 03:48 PM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...47761350501823

thespian86 · 07-22-2006, 05:57 PM

silly, very ninteen fifties; I can't believe they weren't named billy, sally, and johnny/timmy . Funny though

Bill O'Rights · 07-22-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krwlz

Honesty and courtesy can be just as effective as playing word games with a cop.

Much more than you can possibly imagine.

A couple of things to keep in mind.
Cops, by the very nature of their work, are surrounded by the lowest common denominators of society. All day...every day. That wears on them. Trust me. That little bit of sincere courtesy will go a long way toward making his day just a tiny bit less like a swim in a sewage treatment plant. That, coupled with a little bit of luck, just might make your day a little less harsh.

As an aside. Do not, I repeat do not, go overboard with the courtesy. It comes off as condescending, and that pisses us off just as much as outright disrespect.

flstf · 07-23-2006, 08:33 AM

willravel, I watched the ACLU video and there seems to be some good pointers. However I can't imagine that if the police want to search your car/house etc.. that they won't just claim that they saw, heard, smelled something that require a search without waiting for a warrant. In other words if they want you you're toast.

I guess your best strategy when getting pulled over when you were doing nothing illegal is to be curteous and hope the policeperson has already met their quota for today's tickets.

krwlz · 07-23-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

willravel, I watched the ACLU video and there seems to be some good pointers. However I can't imagine that if the police want to search your car/house etc.. that they won't just claim that they saw, heard, smelled something that require a search without waiting for a warrant. In other words if they want you you're toast.

I guess your best strategy when getting pulled over when you were doing nothing illegal is to be curteous and hope the policeperson has already met their quota for today's tickets.

Yea, there are good pointers, and if they really want in, you might be fucked. But at the same time, they know your rights... perhaps even better than you do. And they know the amount of total bullshit they would have to go through proving that they did not violate your rights. With the possibility of not even getting a conviction on you.

Most of the time, if you assert them, they will comply.

07-19-2006, 07:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
dawnoffawn Crazy	what to do when stopped by a cop for no reason? I was stopped by a cop during rush hour and traffic and close to my home...I was in the left lane and was about to switch lanes in order to go the to rightest lane to go into my exit when the cop showedup from nowhere and was switching lanes with me. I wasn't speeding or anything. He gave me a ticket after taking my id and registration and staying in his car for 10 minutes. I feel that this was not just and that I was singled out and discriminated against. First we were all in traffic so there was no way I was speeding. Second he claimed that the speed limit in the highway was "50" according to him (I think it really is 55!) and that I was speeding "from 55 to 60" and he wrote "60" so that I have to pay more since 10-14 over the limit is charged $95. How do I prove in court that I am innocent? Is there anything I say that can be used against me? What if he "showed" them a radar of 55 or 60? How can I prove that this is ont true especially since if it shows that, it means that happened while trying to switch lanes in order to pull over for the cop. I feel discriminated agaist and that the cop's act was not justifiable. If I get pulled over again, could I ask them the reason before showing them my id's? Can I ask for thier name and proof before giving out any of my id's? What are my rights? Please help. Thanks in advance. Last edited by dawnoffawn; 07-19-2006 at 07:29 PM..

07-19-2006, 08:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I've taken 2 tickets to court and have won both. Go take a picture of the speed limit sign and bring it in with you as proof. Ask why the officer wasn't aware of the speed limit as he wrote your ticket. If the speed limit was 50 for some odd reason, you still might be able to beat this. Explain how you have a spotless driving record. Explain that you were observing the rules of the road when you were driving with the flow of traffic. Above all, show as much respect as possible. You are a victim, and the judge had nothing to do with the dick police officer. Edit: your driving record is availabe from the DMV, and usually runs something like $5-$10. Remember, the reason you are fighting this is two fold: 1) sticking up for what you believe in and 2) making sure your insurence doesn't go up. - Only about 3% of tickets are contested - 20-25% of the time, the police officer that wrote the ticket doesn't show, which means the ticket will usually be thrown out Last edited by Willravel; 07-19-2006 at 08:23 PM..

07-19-2006, 09:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	You got a ticket for just 5 miles over??? Definitely go to court. I'd be willing to bet the officer doesn't show. You must have resembled his ex or something... Willravel gave good advice. Rehearse at home how you will speak to the judge so you don't stammer in court, too. And it helps if you carefully read over the information on the ticket including jurisdiction. One error and it's null and void. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

07-20-2006, 07:16 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	WAAAAAAA WAAAAAA. "Going with traffic" or being "close to home" are not mutually exclusive to speeding. How exactly were you discriminated against? Your car got pulled over out of everyone ELSE who was ALSO speeding? What are you, 12? I'm an unfortunately chronic speeder and I've had my share of tickets, but I take RESPONSIBILITY for my actions. Denying your actions, blaming other people, or trying to weasle out of a punishment are NOT mature actions. Was the officer rude to you? Did he proposition you? Perform an illegal search? Tell me what law he violated or how he "discriminated" against you and you'll have a shred of credibility. I'm giving you tough love because a judge who hears this is going to hear the exact same thing as me. "But Judge, everyone ELSE was speeding too!" "Officer X discriminated against me and pulled me over!!!" BOO HOO. Frankly, its unfortunate that this case is going to resolve itself like it will. You're going to go before the DA (not even in a court room) and he's going to offer you a charge of "defective vehicle" or "obscured view," zero point charges with a minimal fine -- because he's too busy to prosecute a small case like yours. And it's unfortunate, because you won't learn the real lesson here. You do something wrong, TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR IT. I apologize somewhat for the tone, but I read another forum at realpolice.net and there are 10-15 posts of this same tone -- "Mr Evil Cop discriminated against me and pulled me over for no reason.. what do I do?" It's all whiny jerks who don't feel like being ADULTS and handling the manner in a responsible way. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

07-20-2006, 07:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ample Psycho Location: In your closet	I heard this not sure if it is true or not, but the speed limit is actually only the suggested speed limit, and unless it says max speed XXmph they can give you leniency. If you explain that there was light traffic and the road conditions were ideal and that there was no pedestrian in the area, it all works in your favor. __________________ Her juju beads are so nice She kissed my third cousin twice Im the king of pomona

07-19-2006, 07:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Here's a couple possible helpful websites: http://www.ehow.com/how_18002_decide-whether-fight.html http://www.expertlaw.com/library/tra...g_tickets.html I believe there are some threads around here that have talked about this as well.

07-19-2006, 07:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Willravel gets pulled over officer approaches before the officer can say anything, Willravel rolls down the window only a few inches and says,"Is there a problem officer? Stunned, the officer tries the old routine, "License and registration. Do you know how fast you were going?" Willravel: handing over license and registration through the few inches that the window is open "No officer. Is there a problem?" Officer: "You were going 45." Willravel: "..." (you do not have to admit any guilt in this case. you can simply stare blankly. If you have said you don't know how fast you were going, you are admitting no wrong doing. Remember: it's not a crime to say you don't know how fast you were going) Officer: "Do you know the speed limit?" Willravel: "No, sir." Officer: "It's 40 here." Willravel: "..." Officer: "Step out of the car please." Willravel: steps out of the car, CLOSES AND LOCKS THE VEHICLE "Is there a problem officer?" Officer: "Why'd you lock the car?" Willravel: "Habit." (Please note that this a-hole probably was going to try and search my vehicle without a warent. Closing it and locking it basically stops him completly) Officer: "Do you have any illegal contraband in your vehicle?" Willravel: "No, sir." Officer: "Then you don't mind if I take a look." (this is a very common ploy. If I were to say, "sure", then I would be waving my right) Willravel: "Actually, I do mind. Are you going to write me a ticket, sir?" Officer: "..." Willravel: Booyah!! Hundove, you admitted guilt to speeding. What you said is being used against you and is, unfortunately, 100% legal. Unless you somehow get some serious sympathy and luck your way, you'll have to pay. Next time, let the officer do all the talking, so as to avoid falling into his or her trap. The only way to fight this is to prove that the speed limit was 55, the flow of traffic was actually moving fast than you, and that the officer lied. 5 mph over the limit is nothing, and will usually be thrown out. Let me know if you need any help. Civil rights are my speciality.

07-19-2006, 08:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
dawnoffawn Crazy	Thank you so much, Zeraph! Thanks so much, Willravel! I was not speeding and the only thing Itold the officer was "How was I speeding if we were in traffic and that I am close to my home?" So, I did not admit to speeding or anything, since I wasn't speeding.Do I have any lucking in going to court and pleading not guilty? Does it cost to go to court? Thx!

07-20-2006, 02:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
analog Banned	I'm going to ignore everything else since willravel has taken care of it, but this point... Exactly how were you "discriminated against"?

07-20-2006, 07:58 AM	#12 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I believe you live in NJ, so were you stopped by a local cop or a State Trooper?The staties in NJ at one point, was pretty well known for giving out citations around the bigger cities especially Newark and Trenton (and I think youlive around Newark if I recall) for "Driving while black" that was a few years ago, and they have since gone thru "sensitivity training" you'd have a tough time making a discrimination suit. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-20-2006, 11:41 AM	#16 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Here are some more tips if you get pulled over: 1) Show the police officer respect. Address him as "sir" or "officer". 2) Do NOT admit guilt in any form. "I was only going 65mph [say limit is 60mph]", you have admitted to a crime already and you are toast. 3) Do not rationalize your driving. Going with the flow of traffic is the worst excuse you can have. If you see a bank robbery, and join in, is that excusable? Extreme case, but it makes my point. A friend of mine was pulled over going with the flow of traffic and the cop said to his response, "Son, you were the last person in the flow and right in front of me. Bad luck for you." 4) Traffic stops are highly dangerous for police officers as they have no idea who you are and what you are capable of. At night, when pulled over, turn your car off, take out the keys and place them on the dashboard [he knows you aren't a flight risk], keep your lights on, put your emergency flashers on, and turn your inside car light on with your hands on the steering wheel. With the inside lights on, he can see you and will feel safer about the process. A more comfortable cop is a nicer cop. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

07-21-2006, 08:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
Toaster126 Extreme moderation Location: Kansas City, yo.	Willravel's story works except for the fact that you will definitely get a ticket if you do that. If you didn't do anything illegal, they'll write one saying you did anyway, and the burden of proof is on you to prove you didn't do whatever it is. Also, the whole locking the car bit is fun, but they can 1-up you with the "ok, I need to call in the drug dog, wait here" and waste a lot of your time. Or maybe I just need to stop looking black... __________________ "The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand) "The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

07-21-2006, 10:26 AM	#20 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	hundlove, most likely, unless you know someone behind the scenes, you're going to eat it. i'm pretty sure you can ask the court to produce the evidence against you; I know some attourney's who claim to have gotten out of tickets asking for evidence disclosure. However, I think that in most places, the word of the cop is enough to stand. will - pull that off and i'll give you credit for large titanium cojones. i've usually had pretty good luck with being friendly with the cops myself. if i was going to pull that lock trick, i'd hit the powerlocks on the way out from the inside. chances are, the cop might not even know you locked up. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

07-21-2006, 12:27 PM	#23 (permalink)
Average_Joe Psycho Location: Under the Radar	If you truly feel you have been violated, it might be worth it for your own vindication to get a lawyer and fight it. Perhaps this one particular officer has a reputation within his profession for controversial arrests or traffic stops. It might be worth more time and effort to go this route, but at least you will have peace of mind if you win.

07-21-2006, 12:43 PM	#25 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	Well, I always suspected you had basketball-sized taint slappers. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

07-21-2006, 03:40 PM	#28 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	Just a quick point... Admitting guilt can screw you over, but on the other hand, on the day you get pulled over for 84 mph in a 55... when you know you were closer to 90... Where the conversation went like this after the trooper pulled me over in his camaro on my way to calculus: Cop: So... What class you late for? Me: Calculus... Cop: What time is it? Me: 10:20 sir Cop: What time does calc start? Me: 10... Cop: You know you're already late right? Me: Yea... Cop: So you know how fast you were going? Me: (Loud sigh as I hand him the paperwork) had to be over 80... Cop: Clocked you at 84... I'll be right back, k? Me: .... (At this point I'd like to point out he was giving me a little break... 2 more points for one more mph over the limit) cop comes back Cop: Alright, I wrote you this ticket, 84 in a 55, see here on the back? Just sign here, pleade of not guilty, come into court the second date, and we'll work something out. Your insurance won't like this ticket. Me: Alright, have a good one sir Cop: You too, drive safe. Fast Forward to hearing,... Got there a half hour early. Cop gets there 20 minutes early Cop: Hows it going today? Me: Alright all things considered Cop: You were late to a class right? What class was that? Me: Calc Cop: Ouch, that sucks to be you. Alright, you were honest and polite on the side of the road, and that means a lot, at least to me, so I'm going to write you a parking ticket. If thats ok with you, sign here... Cop gets to leave before the hearing even gets started, I walk out with a 135 dollar fine and no points. Honesty and courtesy can be just as effective as playing word games with a cop.

07-21-2006, 06:18 PM	#31 (permalink)
newtx Addict	Go to court if you can.Plead not guilty. I'll bet the officer doesn't even show up. Case dismissed.

07-21-2006, 07:55 PM	#32 (permalink)
Smooth23 Tilted	Around here the easiest way to get a ticket thrown out is to just go into court. Almost always the judge will drop the fine and make you pay court costs ($40 last time it happened to a friend). For me its worked twice to just go in, ask for the proof against you and if the officer can't provide proof you get no point no fine, ticket is null and void. At least in the city I've always pulled over in, it helps that most people in court on whatever day you go in, are there for dui's, drugs or worse, so having someone fighting a ticket is the least of a judges problems.

07-21-2006, 09:03 PM	#33 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	Smooth, I've never seen that. Standard operating procedure where I work, for tickets that aren't terribly excessive, is to amend the ticket to an improper muffler (which is a non-moving violation). You end up paying more for the ticket, but don't get the points. And most judges won't drop the ticket (and no judge should drop the ticket) without consulting with the prosecutor anyway. Perhaps the point is, it depends on jurisdiction... But it should be noted that, depending on the ticket, the testimony of the officer is going to be enough to get the proof the court needs. What I would recommend is that the OP talk to the prosecutor before deciding whether or not to go to trial. If the prosecutor's feeling nice, he'll just drop the charges, and you won't have to go to trial, and prosecutor's are generally a bit less trigger happy than officers (since they tend to know what the law actually is). __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

07-22-2006, 06:58 AM	#35 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	If the speed limit really was 50 and you got a ticket for going over 55, it shopws that the officer has no credibility. He either lied about the 55 limit or didn't know. Either way, his evidence is now suspect. What does being close to home have to do with anything? and a bump to what krwlz said... __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

07-22-2006, 03:48 PM	#36 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...47761350501823

07-22-2006, 05:57 PM	#37 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	silly, very ninteen fifties; I can't believe they weren't named billy, sally, and johnny/timmy . Funny though __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much. Last edited by thespian86; 07-22-2006 at 05:59 PM..

07-23-2006, 08:33 AM	#39 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	willravel, I watched the ACLU video and there seems to be some good pointers. However I can't imagine that if the police want to search your car/house etc.. that they won't just claim that they saw, heard, smelled something that require a search without waiting for a warrant. In other words if they want you you're toast. I guess your best strategy when getting pulled over when you were doing nothing illegal is to be curteous and hope the policeperson has already met their quota for today's tickets.