soccerchamp76

I am currently enrolled to take Organic Chemistry in the upcoming fall and I was wondering if anybody here could offer and help as to what to expect for the class in terms of hardness/work compared to general chemistry??

Thanks all.

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gremlinx8

Organic is a lot different than Gen Chem. If you pay attention in class and read the book and do practice problems it shouldn't be too bad. I did well in the first semester, but I've been slacking a bit this second semester- makes me grateful for the huge curve at the end of the semester.

hokiesandwich

O-chem is no joke. Anybody who tells you it's easy is one of two things: very intelligent or lying.

You have got to study your ass off, and reading before class is essential. It clarifies the material in class, and allows you to get way, way more out of the lecture notes than just going to class and then cramming the night before the exam.
If you study the text, then do the problems, then check them with the solutions manual, it will go a long way towards your understanding of the material.
You could have almost no general chemistry in your background at all and do well in organic, because it's a different kind of learning, a different aspect to the material. You have periodic trends and a few equations, but it's largely going to be examining the POSSIBILITIES in the given problem, rather than the single correct answer.
For example, in Gen. Chem, they would give you the data on a cell, and ask you to calculate the rate of electron flow for that cell, etc. In Organic, they will give you two reagents, and ask you to detail what materials you need to add, under what conditions, and show each step to get a very specific product, in a very specific conformation (remember going over aufbau, valence, electronegativity, and bonding orbitals in general? This is where you apply that knowledge). For the beginning reagents you are given, there are several possibile outcomes, but the professor will want only one.
If this sounds intimidating, you'll do fine. You'll be scared now, then get to class and realize you just have to STUDY the material to do well.
I'll be honest with you and tell you that I have some wicked ADHD, and so my study habits were not up to snuff to tackle organic chemistry. I took first and second semester courses a total of 6 times, for various reasons, including personal study habits and other reasons beyond my control.
Organic is the "weed-out" course in any college science program, but not because the department wants it to be; rather, it requires effort on the students' part to learn the material, and, importantly, the professor's style in teaching the material. O-chem is so large that each professor will demand something different of their students on their exams, so it pays to go to class.
Don't get all motivated now, just to blow it off come the fall. Of all the courses in your college career (I graduate in May, after 5 full years of school), this is the one you need to attend religiously. More importantly, find a group of people you can trust, and share notes and study together. There is always someone in the class who gets a lesson when you don't, and vice-versa. Use the resources your school makes available to you, be it office hours, tutors, study rooms, whatever.
Now is the time to be scientific and systematically approach the lessons, as well as analyze your learning style. This requires a little introspection on your part.
Sure, this is a lot to say on one college subject, but ask around, and see how many people suddenly decide they would rather be a business major or political science major, rather than a chemist or biologist. This is a very doable subject in the undergraduate level, but a lot of people just want to get by with the minimum study. For me, at least,that was a recipe for failure.
Save yourself the headache, heartache, and the cost of summer tuition by working hard weeks before your first o-chem exam, and keep this in mind: there have been thousands and thousands who have done well in this subject , and just as many who have done miserably. Choose at the beginning of the fall semester which group you want to be in.

kutulu

bah, no prob. Unless it plays a major role in your major, it's nothing more than a standard regurgitation class. Just learn the nomenclature and the more simple reactions. That's all I did. -edit- Each chapter will have certain mechanisms that they show in detail. Memorize those. It's all about memorizing useless facts.

I never did the coursework and I studied about 3 hours for each test. I slept/did homework/fucked around in class (if I even showed up). I got a C both semesters and that's all that mattered. Meanwhile, people were devoting 20+ hrs/week just to get a B. I'm sure those people don't remember any more material than I do 5 years later.

I spent a LOT more time on general chem.

Grades are a game, you just need to know how to play it.

mandal

O chem honestly has nothing to do with Gen chem really. The whole electronegativity shit doesn't come into play much, besides helping you identify which reacts better and such, but the bulk of O chem is just REMEMBERING EQUATIONS.

there's not really such a thing as really knowing from electronegativity and valance electrons because honestly, in the real world, it just doesn't work that simple. Sure, if you consider the properties of this and that you SHOULD get this product, but you don't, so they make up some reason for it working out the other way.

To study, just make a whole mess of note cards of all the reactions you ever learn, know the mechanism as well. There will be groups that have certain characteristics, such as electrophile, nucleophiles, and how they react to certain groups such as carboxylic acids, ketones, alchols, and such.

For me it was just a matter of remembering every equation and with that you should do well, it's not too bad either. I got an A first semester and am at a 89% this semester.

vinaur

I'm taking AP Chem in highschool right now and it's quite easy, for me anyway. The stuff that we covered seems to be quite different from what the people described above. So far we've covered nomenclature, equilibrium stuff (regular, acid-base, solubility, buffering), a bunch of thermochem (enthalpy, entropy, Gibb's free energy, etc.), RedOx reactions, and doing some half-reaction balancing right now (seems to be rather fun). Can anyone tell me if this is what college kids learn in the first year of o-chem, because I'll be taking the AP exam and might get credit for the class. I wouldn't want to miss a whole lot of material and then step right into o-chem 2 or whatever it's called. BTW, if it matters, I plan to mayor in biochem and biophys.

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Hain

Vinaur, you should remember Mr. D said that we barely scraped the surface of Organics and we are covering parts of all chem classes to get a general feel of the various courses.

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astrahl

O-Chem is a beast. I had to take two semesters worth at Berkeley and it slayed me. Please, avoid the headaches and do the following religiously!

1) GOTO CLASS! Do NOT skip this class. Get a coffee, sit in front and pay attention.

2) Take detailed notes. Subtle explanations from the prof during class can save your ass when you are studying.

3) Read the book. I hated my book - but by the end of the semester it was decorated with tabs and notes and any other quick reference tool I could find.

4) Go to office hours and ask questions even if they are dumb. Getting the prof to answer Q's worded like you are a bit slow will help you to cement the ideas in your head.

5) Get the study guide (if available). When it comes to o-chem, practice (and checking your answers) makes perfect.

6) Did I already say take detailed notes?

7) Soak the shit up like a sponge...once you are done with o-chem forever, savor the flush.

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kutulu

AP Chem usually covers the first semester of college general chem. So you'd still need chem2. I'm not aware of HS classes covering college ochem. OChem sucks anyways. Physical chemistry is the best.

vinaur

Sorry, I mixed up the o-chem and chem. Now that I think of it, there really wasn't much that we covered about o-chem. Basically only nomenclature. But still, could anyone tell me if I would be missing a bunch of stuff from general college chem if I went right into chem2??

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Hektore

Everything everyone else said is right on. Lots of memorization of reactions, for example. How does this alkene react with each of these 15 reagents. Real fun stuff, I found it easy, most people don't. The absolute most truthful thing I've ever heard about ochem is: Organic chemistry is painfully cumulative. You have to keep up, work on it every day even if it is only a little.

Another thing that I had was drawing chemical structures from instrument readouts, stuff like H and C NMR, IR and Mass Spec. Synthesis is also a huge part of it, questions like sythesize this:


Starting with acetone as your only carbon source.

Best of luck to you.

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soccerchamp76

The first semester of Gen Chem we covedered electronegativity, orbitals, acid-base titration, redox reactions, polarization. In the second semester we are working on more acid-base titrations, thermodynamics (entropy/enthalpy), chemical equilibrium. You might get credit for Gen Chem 1 depending on your score on the AP test, but I might recommend that you still take it. It will be easier with the AP stuff and if you get an A it would look really nice on your transcript.

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

mo42

O-chem at the University of Illinois focuses heavily on reaction mechanisms. You have to figure out how things will react and what they will form based on general principles (or special cases for things like Bromine). Synthesis questions like the one posted by Hektore are fairly common, although his question would probably be one of the more difficult ones.

It's not bad once you understand why things react the way they do; if you can do that rather than memorize individual reactions over and over, you'll do well. Not that you won't have to do a lot of memorization, just less than most people.

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mandal

Honestly, I think that you should take ALL your AP credits. I took AP chem and passed out of gen chem 1 and 2, so I'm not sure what everybody is saying about it not covering gen chem 2. i even got credit for the labs, but to cover the labs, it depends on your High school.

I do believe that if you get a 4 it's gen chem 1, and if you get a 5 then it's 1 and 2.

If you are looking to do premed, honestly just go right to organic chem. you really have to fit in a lot of classes by a certain time, so you don't want to waste your time taking something you alreay did. With fulfiling premed requirements, school requirements, and major requirements, you really get pushed for time.

Slavakion

Oh sweet Jesus. This is all about 7 months away for me...

If you did well enough on the AP test to get out of a class or two, you obviously know the material. If you don't, then you either cheated or College Board needs to seriously redo their tests. You now have room for one or two fun classes to take. Enjoy the freedom, cuz you're gonna be sweating senior year with your thesis...

vinaur

I'm all about understanding, not memorization. Memorization will not get you anywhere. You must understand why things happen to really apply them.

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JamesB

This is my masters (bioorganic chemistry).

When in doubt .. protonate on an electron rich site. Get to know SN1, SN2, E1, E2 reactions well. Its great fun - and a challenge too!

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Lebell

Ah the joys of organic chemistry.

As I understand, it is the culling class for chemists. If you can't make it through organic, you shouldn't be a chemist.

Fortunately I only had to take through p-chem.

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kutulu

PChem came before OChem at your school? Wow, that's weird. PChem at ASU was a senior level class that required 3 semesters of calculus plus a semester of differential equations. It was hard as fuck because the teacher didn't allow any notes for his tests. Fortunately, the professor was the best one I had during my entire college career. I got a B in the first sem (thermo), and an A in the second sem (quantum mechanics, including lots of PDEs)

Janey

It's not that organic is such a beast of a course, and the text is as heavy as the general chem text, it's that you have to do this course, AS WELL as the rest of your course load.

Phory

O-Chem is what made me change my major to chemistry. It was so fun. What helped me most was doing what my professor recommended: keeping a reaction notebook. It was a special notebook, separate from all of my other notes. It was a 3 ring binder, to which I would add a blank piece of white paper for each type of organic compound we learned about. Each time we learned a new reaction I would write down its name on the relevent page, and draw the reaction under the name. Then to study I would just draw each page over and over again. For example I'd say to myself..."Ok draw every reaction an alcohol can do." Then I'd check to see if I drew them all. I'd keep drawing the same page from memory until I got them all, every time. It wouldn't take many iterations of this to memorize all of the reactions, since I would be learning visually. I would also make sure to draw little arrows in every reaction showing where the electrons were moving.

In time from drawing the reactions over and over again, I learned that o-chem is basically just recognizing where electron density around a molecule is high or low, and which atoms are likely to attract or give up electrons.

Another big part of o-chem is being able to vizualise the orientation of 3D models in your head. It seemed like some people just have that ability and some people didn't. It will be much easier if you are fortunate enough to have that ability, but if you find that you lack it...don't dispair. Plenty of people do well in o-chem without natural talent in that area, they just have to practice more.

Slavakion

That actually sounds like a fantastic idea, Phory! I'll have to write that down. Heh, there's some irony for you -- taking notes on how to take notes... (And I don't care if that's not irony. Close enough. ^_^)

Slightly off topic, but I felt so nerdy -- in a good way -- when I shut down somebody online for claiming that radioactivity had a half life of 35 years. The best part was that 3 sentences earlier he talked about understanding half-life.

reiii

I'm studying for my orgo final riiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhhhhttttttt now.

My life hurts right now, particularly my back from the innumerable hours I've spent memorizing equations or "transformations". My exam is tomorrow morning and I already have butterflies. I know tonight I will sit up for at least two hours while I struggle to keep my body from goign into fight or flight. Every time I'll get my heartbeat under control, I'll think about a reaction and it'll spike back up. I have about one more chapter to learn, and then about 10-15 practice tests to take. The light is at the end of the tunnel for me.

I have to say orgo has been the most stressful course of my life. The amazing thing is that ive been doing remarkably well. Tomorrow I need only a 80% to get a flat A in the course. Unfortunately this wont really help me much because orgo is very all or nothing, I forget two reactions and I have a 70....

OY!!!! now back to studying, good luck in orgo

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JamesB

Good luck on your exam!

Hopefully this is your last organic chemistry course - if not, I feel your pain.

Cheers!

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reiii

Thank you, it is my last organic chemistry course. I'll post in 4 hours and let you know that I'm still alive

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reiii

wooot! fin.

Id like to send out a big fuck you to the following compounds:
the naturally occuring aldol-hexoses
malonic ester
olein
and uhhhhhh benzene...yeah suck it benzene


I'm finally done with that awful terrible no good course

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Cereberus

There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who like inorganic, and those who like organic.

I made straight A's in inorganic. Organic kicked my ass, partially because, as Janey said, I had so much else to do. Partially because I hated it. They'd give you a rule, and then give you so many freaking exceptions that the rule was useless.

If you want to do something requiring a high GPA, you should take the course in college. If you already know it from AP, that should be a pretty easy A. If it's only a case where you need to get your ticket punched, take the AP credit if you can.

ianthegoat

I took my organic series over the summer here at OSU (two terms of lecture and one term of lab, crammed into 11 weeks). Except for the 8am-12pm 5 days a week it was one of the funnest classes I've taken.

If you are good at visualizing the molecular structures and what exactly is happening during reactions (electron flow diagrams) you will do fine.

Oh, and you can disregard everything high school (and college intro) chemistry teachers have told you about electron orbitals being concentric spheres. It is considerably more fascinating than that.

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soccerchamp76

Just took the ACS (American Chemical Society) Standardized organic exam.......

To follow reiii's statement, my fuck you's go out to:
polymers
plane-polarized light
epoxides

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.