Explain commas to me please. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Phaenx · 04-27-2004, 11:20 AM

I keep getting raped by sentence fragments in my ENG 111 course. I'm still doing great since besides sentence fragments my work has been flawless++ (according to the grading system). But I'm not getting something here about this comma jazz. I speak in my mind, and whenever I pause I put in a comma as I write it down. This apparently makes for lots of fragments.

Pliz haelp!

Here's an essay I have due to turn in tonight for fun:

“Roast Beef and Potatoes: A Guide to Crushing Your Enemies.”

The sun would begin to set and I would wait for him. The cool breeze would bring with it the smell of my Mother cooking roast beef and potatoes in the kitchen. The banging of pots and pans accompanied by the crescendo of the wind playing the Earth was a symphony in it’s own right. Amidst this all I waited for an old brown truck to pull into the driveway. Today I waited for my father with special fervor, I had a question to ask him. That wasn’t out of the ordinary, but it was important today. “Where is he? He’s taking forever!” I yelled at my mother, who shushed me and continued working at the stove. When my gaze fell back to the driveway, there it was. My father’s old truck racing down the driveway with a cloud of dirt on his heels. I shrieked and ran to the truck, intent on getting to the bottom of my question. Before I could say anything, he was upon me. Unleashing a flurry of tickling and wrestling techniques he had coined years ago. I was helpless until the old man grew tired and put me over his shoulder to take in to dinner. It was then that I asked him, “Hey Dad, how can I become successful?”

I had never seen someone grin with such effort. I could almost hear the thoughts screaming inside of my father’s brain. They cried out a thousand different things, but all my father said was, “Where to start?” As it turns out we started with roast beef and potatoes. Over dinner my father told me something about success. In shocking simplicity, he told me that success isn’t material possessions. Success is rather a state of mind. Success is the attitude you take when you look at anything and everything. It’s the burning in your heart when you struggle to attain a lofty goal. It’s working to defeat an opponent at a particular sport, the determination to learn something new to dominate a subject, and it’s having the guts to put your life into a business venture even if it risks bankruptcy. Success is in the person themselves, not their money or possessions. This was all he told me about success for many years. The rest he left for me to discover.

Years later we moved to Dayton, Ohio and I began to experience the importance of my lesson. Down the street from our brick house lived a guy that came to be my best friend. John Carosiello was short, heavy set, and always seemed to be carrying a football. John was also every bit as competitive as I was at the time. We grew interests in several sports, but mostly played basketball in his driveway. Very long games of basketball. We would often play five or six games in a row until whoever was behind finally beat the other and decided it was time to go inside. We were very stubborn children, which according to Dad was one of our finer attributes. My father called this stubbornness a winner’s attitude. Mom called us sore losers but that’s beside the point. Dad on the other hand said that a winner knows that he is not Superman. A winner understands that when he falls short of excellence he has to work at it. So the winner works, thinks, and tries again until his goals are reached. In essence, that was the basis of my father’s perception of success. You can know a lot about anything, but if you don’t have the will to make things happen, they jus won’t happen.

Now that I had been equipped with the correct outlook on success I was able to do many things that I likely would have counted as impossible before even trying. I remember a time when John’s sister Sarah and my own sister Jennifer began selling candy for their school. Sarah and Jennifer would lord their sales ability over us and poke fun at our lack of money. This upset John and I, so in response we set up a business that in one night pulled in nearly eight times what they made in a week. We got the idea in our head while riding our bikes in the church parking lot where John’s father preached. I remember that it was autumn at the time and the trees had just turned a thousand different shades of red. This represents the coming winter to most people, but to me it always meant that it was football season. Football season meant that soon the stadium across the street would be full of spectators. A full stadium meant that people would be fighting tooth and nail to get a good parking space. Wheels began to turn and with the go-ahead from John’s father, we were sitting out in the cold with a sign that read, “Parking, ten dollars.” Our patrons gladly paid up, and we filled the lot every night.

The powerful lesson my father taught me over dinner that spring day continues to resonate through my life. Success had turned out to be something that I could achieve every day. As long as I had a competitive outlook on things and strove to be the best at whatever it was I wanted to do, then I could succeed. Indeed, success can always be found when a person has it in their mind to succeed. Be it beating your best friend at basketball every day or earning enough money to buy into a business venture. It does not matter the outcome, the only time a person fails to succeed is when they do not try.

Bill O'Rights · 04-27-2004, 11:30 AM

This site may help you.

onetime2 · 04-27-2004, 11:42 AM

I thought this thread was going in a completely different direction. Comas versus commas.

Phaenx · 04-27-2004, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
I thought this thread was going in a completely different direction. Comas versus commas.

Oops. Good thing I sexed up the placement test lady.

onetime2 · 04-27-2004, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
Oops. Good thing I sexed up the placement test lady.

LOL.

nash · 04-27-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
Oops. Good thing I sexed up the placement test lady.

That was my strategy, too.

edit: I just noticed the comma right before "too" in my last sentence. It's correct grammar, but I'm not very good at explaining it. Try the following site for an explanation (it's a Google cached page):

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...mmas+too&hl=en

kazoo · 04-27-2004, 04:15 PM

The sound which you hear is that of English teachers weeping.

telekinetic · 04-29-2004, 12:25 AM

I'll edit your papers for $30 an hour

One good tip would be to read everything outloud to yourself, and make sure everything 'sounds' like sentences.

Also, a sentence should be able to stand alone. Example:

Quote:

Before I could say anything, he was upon me. Unleashing a flurry of tickling and wrestling techniques he had coined years ago.

This should be a comma instead of a period, because the second part cannot exist without the first. "Unleashing a flurry..." isn't a thought by itself, it is just a modifier on what he is doing once he is upon you.

Kadath · 04-29-2004, 04:11 AM

In the spirit of the above, here's another example.

Quote:

Today I waited for my father with special fervor, I had a question to ask him.

should have a semicolon instead of a comma because "I had a question to ask him" can stand on its own but is a connected thought and the two sentences would sound choppy if you split them up.

Same thing for this:

Quote:

It does not matter the outcome, the only time a person fails to succeed is when they do not try.

ratbastid · 04-29-2004, 05:14 PM

YAAAAY!!! An opportunity to unleash my inner Grammar Geek!

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
The banging of pots and pans accompanied by the crescendo of the wind playing the Earth was a symphony in it’s own right.

You didn't ask, but that should be a posessive "its", not the contraction for "it is".

Quote:

Before I could say anything, he was upon me. Unleashing a flurry of tickling and wrestling techniques he had coined years ago.

Okay, what's the subject of that second sentence? What's the verb? The object?

Every sentence needs at least a subject and a verb. If it doesn't have one or the other, it's probably a fragment.

Also, I'm not sure about the choice of the word "coined". You typically coin a phrase, not a flurry. It's bordering on a mixed metaphor. "Perfected", maybe? Or "developed"?

Quote:

We grew interests in several sports, but mostly played basketball in his driveway. Very long games of basketball.

Okay, so second sentence again. Subject? Verb?

Quote:

Now that I had been equipped with the correct outlook on success I was able to do many things that I likely would have counted as impossible before even trying.

I want a comma after "success" and before "I". The phrase beginning "I was able" is a dependent clause, and so needs to be joined to the first half of the sentence with a comma.

Quote:

This upset John and I, so in response we set up a business that in one night pulled in nearly eight times what they made in a week.

It's "John and me", but the use of the comma is perfect.

Quote:

Wheels began to turn and with the go-ahead from John’s father, we were sitting out in the cold with a sign that read, “Parking, ten dollars.”

I'd like a comman between "and" and "with". That would set off "with the go-ahead from John's father" as a subordinate clause. It's almost a parenthetical statement, so it deserves to be set off like that.

Quote:

Be it beating your best friend at basketball every day or earning enough money to buy into a business venture. It does not matter the outcome, the only time a person fails to succeed is when they do not try.

With a little tweaking this could be a very nice, if long, sentence, but as it is, the first sentence is a fragment. It sets up a dependent clause, and then doesn't give it anything to depend from.

Now, most of what you're doing could be legitimate from a style point of view. You'll notice LOTS of fragments in what I've written in this post, but I'm writing for a web forum, not a formal paper. In many contexts, there would be absolutely no gramattical problems with this essay at all (well, except for the "it's" I pointed out; that's just wrong). But if you're getting nailed for your use of commas, that deserves a little more attention to the matter.

My guess is, you're writing conversationally, and quickly. You don't take the time to think, "Okay, where's the subject....". But if your teachers are coming down on you, you should try and take time for that.

onetime2 · 04-30-2004, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
I thought this thread was going in a completely different direction. Comas versus commas.

Hey, now that you've changed the title my post doesn't fit. Oh well, such is life.

Supple Cow · 05-05-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twistedmosaic
One good tip would be to read everything outloud to yourself, and make sure everything 'sounds' like sentences.

Caveat: this is only sage wisdom in concert with grammatical rules. Simply reading it to make sure it sounded like a bunch of good sentences is probably what got Phaenx to that point in the first place.

Vingorod · 05-05-2004, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ratbastid
I'd like a comman between "and" and "with". That would set off "with the go-ahead from John's father" as a subordinate clause. It's almost a parenthetical statement, so it deserves to be set off like that.

Wouldn't the comma fit better before the "and"?

tehhappyboy · 05-14-2004, 01:29 PM

An english teacher gave me a great piece of advice on commas once.

When in doubt. Leave it out.

04-27-2004, 11:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Explain commas to me please. I keep getting raped by sentence fragments in my ENG 111 course. I'm still doing great since besides sentence fragments my work has been flawless++ (according to the grading system). But I'm not getting something here about this comma jazz. I speak in my mind, and whenever I pause I put in a comma as I write it down. This apparently makes for lots of fragments. Pliz haelp! Here's an essay I have due to turn in tonight for fun: “Roast Beef and Potatoes: A Guide to Crushing Your Enemies.” The sun would begin to set and I would wait for him. The cool breeze would bring with it the smell of my Mother cooking roast beef and potatoes in the kitchen. The banging of pots and pans accompanied by the crescendo of the wind playing the Earth was a symphony in it’s own right. Amidst this all I waited for an old brown truck to pull into the driveway. Today I waited for my father with special fervor, I had a question to ask him. That wasn’t out of the ordinary, but it was important today. “Where is he? He’s taking forever!” I yelled at my mother, who shushed me and continued working at the stove. When my gaze fell back to the driveway, there it was. My father’s old truck racing down the driveway with a cloud of dirt on his heels. I shrieked and ran to the truck, intent on getting to the bottom of my question. Before I could say anything, he was upon me. Unleashing a flurry of tickling and wrestling techniques he had coined years ago. I was helpless until the old man grew tired and put me over his shoulder to take in to dinner. It was then that I asked him, “Hey Dad, how can I become successful?” I had never seen someone grin with such effort. I could almost hear the thoughts screaming inside of my father’s brain. They cried out a thousand different things, but all my father said was, “Where to start?” As it turns out we started with roast beef and potatoes. Over dinner my father told me something about success. In shocking simplicity, he told me that success isn’t material possessions. Success is rather a state of mind. Success is the attitude you take when you look at anything and everything. It’s the burning in your heart when you struggle to attain a lofty goal. It’s working to defeat an opponent at a particular sport, the determination to learn something new to dominate a subject, and it’s having the guts to put your life into a business venture even if it risks bankruptcy. Success is in the person themselves, not their money or possessions. This was all he told me about success for many years. The rest he left for me to discover. Years later we moved to Dayton, Ohio and I began to experience the importance of my lesson. Down the street from our brick house lived a guy that came to be my best friend. John Carosiello was short, heavy set, and always seemed to be carrying a football. John was also every bit as competitive as I was at the time. We grew interests in several sports, but mostly played basketball in his driveway. Very long games of basketball. We would often play five or six games in a row until whoever was behind finally beat the other and decided it was time to go inside. We were very stubborn children, which according to Dad was one of our finer attributes. My father called this stubbornness a winner’s attitude. Mom called us sore losers but that’s beside the point. Dad on the other hand said that a winner knows that he is not Superman. A winner understands that when he falls short of excellence he has to work at it. So the winner works, thinks, and tries again until his goals are reached. In essence, that was the basis of my father’s perception of success. You can know a lot about anything, but if you don’t have the will to make things happen, they jus won’t happen. Now that I had been equipped with the correct outlook on success I was able to do many things that I likely would have counted as impossible before even trying. I remember a time when John’s sister Sarah and my own sister Jennifer began selling candy for their school. Sarah and Jennifer would lord their sales ability over us and poke fun at our lack of money. This upset John and I, so in response we set up a business that in one night pulled in nearly eight times what they made in a week. We got the idea in our head while riding our bikes in the church parking lot where John’s father preached. I remember that it was autumn at the time and the trees had just turned a thousand different shades of red. This represents the coming winter to most people, but to me it always meant that it was football season. Football season meant that soon the stadium across the street would be full of spectators. A full stadium meant that people would be fighting tooth and nail to get a good parking space. Wheels began to turn and with the go-ahead from John’s father, we were sitting out in the cold with a sign that read, “Parking, ten dollars.” Our patrons gladly paid up, and we filled the lot every night. The powerful lesson my father taught me over dinner that spring day continues to resonate through my life. Success had turned out to be something that I could achieve every day. As long as I had a competitive outlook on things and strove to be the best at whatever it was I wanted to do, then I could succeed. Indeed, success can always be found when a person has it in their mind to succeed. Be it beating your best friend at basketball every day or earning enough money to buy into a business venture. It does not matter the outcome, the only time a person fails to succeed is when they do not try. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy Last edited by Phaenx; 04-27-2004 at 11:44 AM..

04-27-2004, 11:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	This site may help you. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

04-27-2004, 11:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	I thought this thread was going in a completely different direction. Comas versus commas. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

04-27-2004, 04:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
kazoo Psycho Location: Where the night things are	The sound which you hear is that of English teachers weeping. __________________ There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity -Big Daddy

05-14-2004, 01:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
tehhappyboy Tilted	An english teacher gave me a great piece of advice on commas once. When in doubt. Leave it out. __________________ I'm a happy boy, happy boy, way to get when things are going your way. Hey Hey. ...Pretty sure I asked for Pecan Sandies...