Help me out please - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

irateplatypus · 11-02-2003, 11:45 AM

I have a 99 Grand Am, w/front disc brakes that make a horrible grinding sound. I never got the usual squeak that lets me know the pads are worn, so i think i've gone all the way back into the metal backing.

I have a bit of skill repairing cars... but I've never messed with the brakes. The importance of competency is obvious.

If I just replace the pads, will that do the trick... or is there a good chance that I'll have to replace the brake lines and/or bleed the master cylinder? I'm afraid that the grinding may signal that I need to replace more parts... anyone else have to deal w/this?

If the pads are all that I probably need, how easy is it for a college student w/limited tools to put them in? Would it be better to pay the extra amount and let someone else do it?

I need some of that good ol' TFP friendly advice.

Ashton · 11-02-2003, 03:37 PM

You will have to pull the rotors and take them to a machine shop to have them turned (ground smooth and true)

It's pretty easy, all you need for a Grand Am is.....

1. Two metric sockets and ratchet

2. A metric open/boxed end wrench

3. A big clamp and a small block of wood

4. Two pieces of bailing wire (about a foot long)

There are two bolts holding each caliper on, after you remove them slide the caliper off and pop out the old pads,(note the position of the wear indicator) then hang the caliper with the wire (so it dosent hang by the brake hose)

There are two bolts holding the caliper bracket to the spindel, (16mm I think) after you remove these and the caliper bracket the rotor will just slide off the wheel studs.

Repeat on other side...... take rotors to machine shop.

To put it all back together all you do is.......

Slide the rotor back on and replace the caliper bracket

Take the cap off the Master Cylinder,

Use the clamp and block of wood to press the caliper piston all the way back in, (Note: the piston must be ALL the way in)

Pop the old clips off the caliper and replace with the new ones that come with the pads,

Open the package of Disc Brake Quiet and rub a thin coating on the metal back of each new pad,

Pop the new pads in (Note: use the pad with the wear indicator in the same position as the old pad,

Slide the caliper back on and replace the bolts (Note: if it won't go back on, the caliper piston isn't all the way in)

Repeat to other side,

Put the wheels back on, lower the car....... start it and pump the brakes a few times,

Top off the Master Cylinder with brake fluid and replace the cap,

You're Done

Oh, one more thing...... The clips on Grand Am's tend to not go in properly, they look like they're in but the bottom part of the clip can stick out just enough to rub against the top of the rotor and make a scraping sound,

After you get everything back together take a flashlight and look between the rotor and caliper, if any of the clips are sticking out take a thin screwdriver and bend them into position

Ashton · 11-02-2003, 03:38 PM

Edit~

Liquor Dealer · 11-04-2003, 09:42 AM

Disc brakes are a fairly easy do it yourself project but if they are badly worn you are going to need to have the discs turned - This is not a do it yourself job when it reaches that point - you might watch Midas specials because a lot of times they will do it for less than you can buy the parts.

JStrider · 11-04-2003, 10:13 AM

hmmm... now that i think about it my brakes were squeeking a little... dont think they should need replacing yet... how many miles should you go before changing brake pads?

Peryn · 11-04-2003, 11:26 AM

If they are squeeking, take a look at em and think about replacing em. Best thing i ever did was pay the $50 bucks for cheapo lifetime warranty pads on teh van. I obviously wasn't doing anything needing high performance breaks, so cheapo ones worked fine. Went to Kragen and got the breaks, payed the extra bucks. As long as i've got the car and can go get free pads. If there is still pad left, and its not down to the metal, take in your old pads, get new ones and walk out. No money changed hands. It was a pretty sweet deal. You might wanna think about that.

Lift up your car and take the wheel off. Take a look at the break rotor. If you cant tell any gauges, scratches, grooves or anything in it, chances are its ok. If their are, take it to a specialist, as it may be warped and need to be replaced, not just turned. AS far as fixing it goes, get a few sockets and a little bucket. Thats pretty much all teh tools you'll need. Pick up a Haynes manual (i find them better than Chiltons). Those will be your best freind. It will tell you exactly what to do and will give pictures. Just remember to get someone to help ya bleed the breaks when your done.

As for Midas...well, i'll never go their again. I couldn't go more than a month on their break repairs without being back to have them fix it. They always had something squeeking, or scraping, or dangling or whatever, and we were constantly in the shop having them fix their repairs (for free obviously) and it was a real inconvenience.

onetime2 · 11-04-2003, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashton

3. A big clamp and a small block of wood

you don't even need the block of wood, just use the old pad in its place.

Mango · 11-04-2003, 12:18 PM

A squeek does NOT always mean it is time to change your pads. Sometimes it is just a squeek due to vibration (especially with Volvos) You do not have to take anything apart to see if your rotors are worn. Just stick your fingers in there and feel them. Running a finger from the center of the brake surface to the out side they should be smooth. If they have ridges they are worn and will require attention soon. I have in the past just put new pads on even though my rotors were worn and my brakes still worked fine. There is a safety factor designed into car parts so that they will work if neglected. You should not need to bleed anything to change your pads. YOu should be able to determine if your pads are worn by looking at them while they are still on the car, just crawl under there and look. If one pad is more worn than it's counterpart you may need a new caliper. At that point you may want to drive it to a brake place and have them deal with it. If you want to do it yourself it is not hard to do a caliper replacement.

My advice - go buy a hanes or chilton manual and read about brakes. If it sounds too hard get someone else to do it. If nothing you will be more informed when you take your car in.

Ashton · 11-04-2003, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
you don't even need the block of wood, just use the old pad in its place.

True......

I've used that method in the past, as well as a few other tricks.....
never thought of it as I was wrinting, I've been using a big C~clamp with a piece of plate welded to it for the last few years.

Ashton · 11-04-2003, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JStrider
hmmm... now that i think about it my brakes were squeeking a little... dont think they should need replacing yet... how many miles should you go before changing brake pads?

Disc Brakes have a wear indicator (a small metal bracket that will rub against the rotor when the pad is a little more than half worn)

It will make a light constant squeeling sound that gets louder as the pad wears...... there is usually around a 1/4 inch of brake pad left when it first starts squeeling, it's just a reminder that they will need to be replaced soon.

Dibbler · 11-12-2003, 01:12 PM

I've never bothered to turn the rotors when I replaced the pad unless I thought they were warped. Is it really needed?

hrdwareguy · 11-12-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dibbler
I've never bothered to turn the rotors when I replaced the pad unless I thought they were warped. Is it really needed?

If your roters have grooves worn into them and you don't have them turned, you will do 2 things. First, you will reduce the amount of surface contact the brake pads have with the roter. This means less stopping power. Eventually your pads will wear down to where the fit into the grooves of the roter. This leads to the second problem. Diminished life of the pads. You will end up replacing your pads sooner than normal if your roters are't turned and the need it.

Sion · 11-15-2003, 08:42 AM

There is another VERY good reason to ALWAYS have the brake (not break) rotors resurfaced or replaced when doing a disc brake job: to remove any glaze that has ocurred on the rotor, which lowers the coefficient of friction between the pads and rotos, thus lowering the stopping power of the system. note that this same concept also applies to drum brakes, in that the drums should ALWAYS be resurfaced or replaced when replacing the shoes.

irateplatypus, my advice to you is this (if you havent already done the job) consider getting a Haynes (or other brand) manual for your car (they usually run about $15 at a parts store). Carefully read the instructions BEFORE even attempting the job. Attempt the job ONLY if you are absolutely sure you fully understand what to do and are confident in your ability to do it correctly. As you said, competency is critical when it comes to brake system repairs.

now, all that being said, Ashton's instructions were pretty good, but he forgot two important things. First is to get a can or two of brake-clean, to clean the rotors off with before final assembly, regardless of wether they are new or resurfaced. New rotors have a coating of cosmolene (anti-rust agent) that should be removed before use. Resurfaced rotors (unless cleaned by the resurfacing shop) should be cleaned to remove any residual dust/grindings from the turning procedure. And of course, you dont want any dirt or grease on the pad surface or rotors. Last thing I always do before final assembly is to liberally spray down the pads and rotors with brake clean, because I always end up getting them dirty somehow. Let them air dry for a minute or so, then complete the assembly.

Second, and more important is the break-in drive. Once new pads are installed on resurfaced (or even new) rotors, the pads must be mated to the rotors on a break-in drive. This is done by taking the car out on the road once the repair is completed. Get it up to 20 mph, then firmly depress the brake pedal and come to a complete stop. Do not jam the brakes like in a panic stop. Just a firm, slightly quicker than normal stop is what you want. Resume driving for several minutes (to allow the brakes to cool slightly), then repeat. Repeat procedure at 5 mph increments up to 50 mph (a total of about 15 stops).

This break-in procedure accomplishes two things: mating the pad surfaces to the rotor, as well as curing the "glue" that holds the pad material together. This "glue" is an epoxy-resin type of stuff that uses heat for the final curing process. The break-in procedure is this final curing. Failure to properly break-in the pads will result in decreased stopping power as well as decreased pad life. I've even seen pads that have cracked and crumbled as a result of not being properly broken-in.

all that being said, it is worth noting that Bendix now makes a pad that does not have to be broken-in in this manner. There is a special coating on the surface of the pad that provides stopping friction during the curing/break-in period. By the time it wears off (a couple dozen stops or so) the pads are mated to the rotors and the curing is complete. I've used them once and was very satisfied with the results. You pay a bit more for them, but they are excellent quality pads with a lifetime warranty.

oh, one more thing: I implore ALL of you home mechanics to ALWAYS use quality brake pads, such as Bendix or Raybestos. Dont buy those cheapo piece of shit brands from discount auto parts stores. Remember, a car that wont start wont kill you, but one that wont stop most likely will. Spend the extra $10 and get good parts that you can rely on.

merkerguitars · 11-17-2003, 06:51 PM

Two of my roomate own 99 grand ams so all you need for tools is a ratchet with a 10mm socket and a c clamp...and all you do is first compress the pad.....take out one bolt only....swing the caliper up....then compress the piston all the way and then put new pads in. One thing though is on the newer grand ams is always use really good quality pads. They are really picky and if you don't use good ones they squeal and make all sorts of funny noises. Also make sure you use the brake caliper grease. These cars are super easy to work on.

11-02-2003, 11:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	Help me out please I have a 99 Grand Am, w/front disc brakes that make a horrible grinding sound. I never got the usual squeak that lets me know the pads are worn, so i think i've gone all the way back into the metal backing. I have a bit of skill repairing cars... but I've never messed with the brakes. The importance of competency is obvious. If I just replace the pads, will that do the trick... or is there a good chance that I'll have to replace the brake lines and/or bleed the master cylinder? I'm afraid that the grinding may signal that I need to replace more parts... anyone else have to deal w/this? If the pads are all that I probably need, how easy is it for a college student w/limited tools to put them in? Would it be better to pay the extra amount and let someone else do it? I need some of that good ol' TFP friendly advice.

11-04-2003, 09:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Disc brakes are a fairly easy do it yourself project but if they are badly worn you are going to need to have the discs turned - This is not a do it yourself job when it reaches that point - you might watch Midas specials because a lot of times they will do it for less than you can buy the parts. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

11-04-2003, 10:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	hmmm... now that i think about it my brakes were squeeking a little... dont think they should need replacing yet... how many miles should you go before changing brake pads? __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

11-04-2003, 11:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	If they are squeeking, take a look at em and think about replacing em. Best thing i ever did was pay the $50 bucks for cheapo lifetime warranty pads on teh van. I obviously wasn't doing anything needing high performance breaks, so cheapo ones worked fine. Went to Kragen and got the breaks, payed the extra bucks. As long as i've got the car and can go get free pads. If there is still pad left, and its not down to the metal, take in your old pads, get new ones and walk out. No money changed hands. It was a pretty sweet deal. You might wanna think about that. Lift up your car and take the wheel off. Take a look at the break rotor. If you cant tell any gauges, scratches, grooves or anything in it, chances are its ok. If their are, take it to a specialist, as it may be warped and need to be replaced, not just turned. AS far as fixing it goes, get a few sockets and a little bucket. Thats pretty much all teh tools you'll need. Pick up a Haynes manual (i find them better than Chiltons). Those will be your best freind. It will tell you exactly what to do and will give pictures. Just remember to get someone to help ya bleed the breaks when your done. As for Midas...well, i'll never go their again. I couldn't go more than a month on their break repairs without being back to have them fix it. They always had something squeeking, or scraping, or dangling or whatever, and we were constantly in the shop having them fix their repairs (for free obviously) and it was a real inconvenience. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

11-15-2003, 08:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	There is another VERY good reason to ALWAYS have the brake (not break) rotors resurfaced or replaced when doing a disc brake job: to remove any glaze that has ocurred on the rotor, which lowers the coefficient of friction between the pads and rotos, thus lowering the stopping power of the system. note that this same concept also applies to drum brakes, in that the drums should ALWAYS be resurfaced or replaced when replacing the shoes. irateplatypus, my advice to you is this (if you havent already done the job) consider getting a Haynes (or other brand) manual for your car (they usually run about $15 at a parts store). Carefully read the instructions BEFORE even attempting the job. Attempt the job ONLY if you are absolutely sure you fully understand what to do and are confident in your ability to do it correctly. As you said, competency is critical when it comes to brake system repairs. now, all that being said, Ashton's instructions were pretty good, but he forgot two important things. First is to get a can or two of brake-clean, to clean the rotors off with before final assembly, regardless of wether they are new or resurfaced. New rotors have a coating of cosmolene (anti-rust agent) that should be removed before use. Resurfaced rotors (unless cleaned by the resurfacing shop) should be cleaned to remove any residual dust/grindings from the turning procedure. And of course, you dont want any dirt or grease on the pad surface or rotors. Last thing I always do before final assembly is to liberally spray down the pads and rotors with brake clean, because I always end up getting them dirty somehow. Let them air dry for a minute or so, then complete the assembly. Second, and more important is the break-in drive. Once new pads are installed on resurfaced (or even new) rotors, the pads must be mated to the rotors on a break-in drive. This is done by taking the car out on the road once the repair is completed. Get it up to 20 mph, then firmly depress the brake pedal and come to a complete stop. Do not jam the brakes like in a panic stop. Just a firm, slightly quicker than normal stop is what you want. Resume driving for several minutes (to allow the brakes to cool slightly), then repeat. Repeat procedure at 5 mph increments up to 50 mph (a total of about 15 stops). This break-in procedure accomplishes two things: mating the pad surfaces to the rotor, as well as curing the "glue" that holds the pad material together. This "glue" is an epoxy-resin type of stuff that uses heat for the final curing process. The break-in procedure is this final curing. Failure to properly break-in the pads will result in decreased stopping power as well as decreased pad life. I've even seen pads that have cracked and crumbled as a result of not being properly broken-in. all that being said, it is worth noting that Bendix now makes a pad that does not have to be broken-in in this manner. There is a special coating on the surface of the pad that provides stopping friction during the curing/break-in period. By the time it wears off (a couple dozen stops or so) the pads are mated to the rotors and the curing is complete. I've used them once and was very satisfied with the results. You pay a bit more for them, but they are excellent quality pads with a lifetime warranty. oh, one more thing: I implore ALL of you home mechanics to ALWAYS use quality brake pads, such as Bendix or Raybestos. Dont buy those cheapo piece of shit brands from discount auto parts stores. Remember, a car that wont start wont kill you, but one that wont stop most likely will. Spend the extra $10 and get good parts that you can rely on. __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin... Last edited by Sion; 11-15-2003 at 08:47 AM..

11-02-2003, 03:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ashton PORNHOUND Location: California	You will have to pull the rotors and take them to a machine shop to have them turned (ground smooth and true) It's pretty easy, all you need for a Grand Am is..... 1. Two metric sockets and ratchet 2. A metric open/boxed end wrench 3. A big clamp and a small block of wood 4. Two pieces of bailing wire (about a foot long) There are two bolts holding each caliper on, after you remove them slide the caliper off and pop out the old pads,(note the position of the wear indicator) then hang the caliper with the wire (so it dosent hang by the brake hose) There are two bolts holding the caliper bracket to the spindel, (16mm I think) after you remove these and the caliper bracket the rotor will just slide off the wheel studs. Repeat on other side...... take rotors to machine shop. To put it all back together all you do is....... Slide the rotor back on and replace the caliper bracket Take the cap off the Master Cylinder, Use the clamp and block of wood to press the caliper piston all the way back in, (Note: the piston must be ALL the way in) Pop the old clips off the caliper and replace with the new ones that come with the pads, Open the package of Disc Brake Quiet and rub a thin coating on the metal back of each new pad, Pop the new pads in (Note: use the pad with the wear indicator in the same position as the old pad, Slide the caliper back on and replace the bolts (Note: if it won't go back on, the caliper piston isn't all the way in) Repeat to other side, Put the wheels back on, lower the car....... start it and pump the brakes a few times, Top off the Master Cylinder with brake fluid and replace the cap, You're Done Oh, one more thing...... The clips on Grand Am's tend to not go in properly, they look like they're in but the bottom part of the clip can stick out just enough to rub against the top of the rotor and make a scraping sound, After you get everything back together take a flashlight and look between the rotor and caliper, if any of the clips are sticking out take a thin screwdriver and bend them into position

11-02-2003, 03:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ashton PORNHOUND Location: California	Edit~

11-04-2003, 12:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mango Banned	A squeek does NOT always mean it is time to change your pads. Sometimes it is just a squeek due to vibration (especially with Volvos) You do not have to take anything apart to see if your rotors are worn. Just stick your fingers in there and feel them. Running a finger from the center of the brake surface to the out side they should be smooth. If they have ridges they are worn and will require attention soon. I have in the past just put new pads on even though my rotors were worn and my brakes still worked fine. There is a safety factor designed into car parts so that they will work if neglected. You should not need to bleed anything to change your pads. YOu should be able to determine if your pads are worn by looking at them while they are still on the car, just crawl under there and look. If one pad is more worn than it's counterpart you may need a new caliper. At that point you may want to drive it to a brake place and have them deal with it. If you want to do it yourself it is not hard to do a caliper replacement. My advice - go buy a hanes or chilton manual and read about brakes. If it sounds too hard get someone else to do it. If nothing you will be more informed when you take your car in.

11-12-2003, 01:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
Dibbler Psycho Location: Initech, Iowa	I've never bothered to turn the rotors when I replaced the pad unless I thought they were warped. Is it really needed?

11-17-2003, 06:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Two of my roomate own 99 grand ams so all you need for tools is a ratchet with a 10mm socket and a c clamp...and all you do is first compress the pad.....take out one bolt only....swing the caliper up....then compress the piston all the way and then put new pads in. One thing though is on the newer grand ams is always use really good quality pads. They are really picky and if you don't use good ones they squeal and make all sorts of funny noises. Also make sure you use the brake caliper grease. These cars are super easy to work on. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985