genuinegirly

I'd like some advice from the seasoned distance runners.

Sunday I set out for a nice, long run. The goal was 18 miles. At mile 6, I was doing fine. By mile 7, I started falling apart. My legs became stiff and my muscles were sore. There wasn't any cramping, only dull aching muscles. I slowed down and stretched for about a half hour before starting back up again, but before long I was stiff again. I ended up walking the last 9 miles, feeling utterly defeated.

My pace was relaxed, on the slow side so I could enjoy the scenery. I was running on level roads with a few mild hills. I think I was adequately hydrated: about a liter over the 18 miles. It was humid and ~80 degrees Fahrenheit. I wasn't running on an empty stomach, but I don't recall what I had eaten beforehand.

While this was supposed to be my longest run yet, I've never experienced something like this, especially not as early as mile 7.

Have I hit some sort of wall that I need to overcome, or would I have done damage if I had decided to continue running? What causes this? Should I be more cautious about my diet and hydration for similar runs in the future? Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

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The_Jazz

From the sounds of it, you weren't feeling any real pain, just malaise. Correct? Not that you didn't notice it, but it wasn't anything specific to one area, right?

If that's the case, it's most likely just an off day. We all have them, just hopefully not on race day.

Back in the day, I'd have all sort of stuff about biorythms at my fingertips, but that coach is long gone, along with his hokey training theories.

Look at it as a single data point. You need more information to plot a line or a curve.

And try eating some bananas. They're the runner's cure-all.

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Plan9

Sounds like an off day. It happens. I've had days where 6 is excruciating and days where 10 is just warming up.

I dunno, I always feel like crap on mile 5-6 and then it gets way better. I think its my body warming up to the idea of running.

I pop a few Advil an hour before I run longer distances and that seems to help a lot with the usual joint-related ouchies.

And our subject matter expert here is correct... bananas are the cure-all for runners. They taste good even on the way back up.

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PonyPotato

What kind of pace are you running, genuinegirly? Have you consulted a pace chart to help yourself warm up more slowly?

Are you working out regularly in the recent humidity? The humidity really took a lot out of me for the first week or two, and I was riding my bike or running in it every day. It influenced me to really cut back on pace for a few days and make sure to try to overhydrate since I sweat so much.

Over 18 miles, you should really be taking in some sort of nutrition during your run. For me, any workout over 90 minutes total will have some nutrition intake - be it sport beans, gu, cookies, or even just gatorade. You can get electrolyte/carb/energy gels to carry on a fuel belt while you run. I am actually looking into the purchase of a fuel belt so I can go on longer runs - past 8 miles, I've already gone through the water bottle I'm able to carry and I usually need to take in some calories to keep going.

Women store glycogen less efficiently than men, so it is VERY important for you to pay attention to nutrition before and during extended exercise.

If you're running a reasonable pace, I'd love to go running with you sometime. I might need to build up a bit more to 18 miles, but I'm comfortable with a half marathon.

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FelixP

I have the same problem, so now I just run shorter distances in the mountains of SoCal. It's a much better workout (for me, anyway) and I don't have to run as far, not to mention the fact that it really helps with agility and foot control.

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genuinegirly

Thanks for all the encouragement and tips, guys!
Definitely think you're right about it being an "off day". Though I do think that Pony is onto something with the nutrition aspect. I snatched a crab-apple on mile 3 of my 5 mile run today, and it gave me quite an extra burst of energy. I'm going to start packing these sorts of things for my longer runs rather than depending upon found fruit. On Sunday all I really ate during my run were a few handfuls of wild blackberries from the side of the road. Tasty, but insufficient. I think I'll start keeping a journal about what I eat before/after runs, and see if there are any trends when I have another bad day.

When I run longer distances, I wear a waist pack - it holds my 1.5 liter water bladder and has a couple of extra pockets for little stuff. I usually leave it empty for interesting plant samples... No idea about my pace, but it's a rather mellow, slow pace. I'm sure Pony would be bored to tears if she went running with me. We can try sometime, if you'd like.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

dlish

how much have you been running beforehand and at what frequency? and what was the previous big distance that you've done and when was it? i knew you were running but i didnt know you were putting in the miles like this

my question is, are you taking a bigger jump than you should. you should be incrementally pushing the kms up by about 10% a week until you get to your target. going from 5km runs to 15km runs will only increase the chances of injury.

the other thing to think about is nutrition. make sure you eat a big meal the evening before..lots of carbs and protein to make sure you've got a full supply for the run the next day.

an electrolytme mixed into your water is also good to give you energy throughout a long run.

the trials of miles...

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genuinegirly

16 ->18 is not a big leap. I make a long run each weekend. Little runs throughout the week. Little being 2-5 miles.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Hektore

I think he meant your total mileage for the week.

If you ran 3-3-3-16 then 5-5-5-18 a week later, your mileage goes from 25 to 33, which is a rather large jump.

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genuinegirly

Oh! I hadn't thought about the total mileage aspect.
I really need to keep a log.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

noodle

S swears by Blox and Heed powder for his long distance biking. And the goo stuff. And 400 - 600 mg of liquid-gel Ibuprofen about 30 min prior to the start.

The Blox are vegetarian, I know for sure, but I'm not sure about the Heed.
It made a HUGE difference for him just in his body's ability to pass The Bonk or The Blow Up.
Since they've decided that I need to train for a 150mile bike ride, too, I'll be trying it soon.
But most definitely you need to look at your mid-run nutrition, electrolytes and fluid.
They do a minimum of 12 oz of fluid with Heed powder (20 if they're not feeling like vomiting from the heat) per 30-60 minutes here... but it's 95 degrees with 80-95% humidity.
I know when they were calculating for running, it was similiar.
There are a number of other mini-bar bite things that will help you keep going. Good luck!

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PonyPotato

gg, the world of sports nutrition can be very daunting. I am still experimenting with my nutrition before/during/after workouts, and there are a ton of options.

My favorites:
One bottle plain water, one bottle gatorade (I don't like HEED)
Sport beans (jelly beans)
Cookies (usually chocolate chip with either walnuts or coconut)
Gu (Vanilla flavored)
Balance bars (for really long bike rides where I need some solid food)

I don't like:
HEED
Clif Shot Bloks (for me, they cause a huge glucose spike and then a crash.. I also don't like the flavors or the texture)
PowerBar Gels (they're too watery, I like the thicker Gu)


What I haven't explored extensively:
Other electrolyte/energy drink mixes
HammerGel
Customizable sport drinks


I do think you would benefit from taking a critical look at your hydration and nutrition and experiment a bit, even with your shorter runs. You would probably benefit a lot from a gel or two in the pockets of your waist pack. I try to take in at least 50 calories every 30-60 minutes during extended activity. At my Olympic duathlon last Sunday, I had:
yogurt for breakfast on the drive up (3 hours prior to the start)
plenty of water/gatorade during the two hours before the start
a packet of sport beans 1.5 hours prior to start (30 minutes before the scheduled start, it got delayed)
a Gu 15 minutes before the actual start
stopped once at the water station on the 5k run for a small cup of water
about 30oz of gatorade during my bike ride
a Gu during my bike ride (halfway point)
Half a Gu starting the 10k run
water at 3 water stations during the 10k (miles 1, 3.1, and 5)
The other half of my Gu at the halfway point water station

And nutrition-wise, I felt great when I finished. I have the tendency to "bonk" pretty easily if I am not taking in additional calories during extended exercise, and it takes me days to recover to where I feel right again. If I pay more attention to my nutrition, I don't have anywhere near as much recovery time or soreness.

I will be looking into S-caps if I decide to train for a half-ironman duathlon in August, and I will probably start using them on my longer bike rides as well. Since I sweat a lot, the hardest part is staying hydrated. Running tends to leave me less hydrated than cycling, because I can guzzle a whole bottle of water on the bike without feeling too nauseous.. that's not so possible when I'm jostling around at a run.

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

genuinegirly

Thanks again for the encouragement, everyone.

Report on progress:

I went to the library yesterday and checked out a book on nutrition for endurance sports. Endurance Sports Nutrition by Suzanne Girard Eberle. While reading it last night I followed their equations for calculating calories. It looks like I'm going to need to consume between 2,000 and 2,150 calories/day when I'm running this much. Yesterday I ate a LOT, and kept track of my calories. By the end of the day I was still about 300 calories short of 2,000. That included 5 full meals and a pint of ice cream! I'm not quite sure how I feel about consuming this much food, but hopefully by mastering the art of eating while running I'll be able to make up for the fact that I'm not able to top off my natural glycogen stores.

I picked up some high-calorie Cliff products and Gatorade gel thingies. Looking forward to trying them out this weekend.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

dlish

hector's right about the mileage.

just with those small mileages, youve increased your mileage by 32% which is a rather large jump. and when you look at it, its not realy significant numbers. now im not sure if thats what you're actually doing, but if you take 10% weekly increments as a general rule of thumb, you'll find that you'll not only be less sore the next day, but after your run, the recovery period is much less and you wont feel the dull muscles in your legs the next day or two after the run.

she-lish did my calcs for calorie intake about a year ago, and from what i can recall the mileage i was doing i needed to continously eat throughout the day. i think it was 3000 calories or somewhere along those lines, and i still lost weight. if you're interested im sure she'd be willing to help you work out the calorie requirements.

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