What should the brain do? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Zeraph · 02-25-2006, 05:35 PM

I got a kick out of this. Warning: May not be for everyone. Symptoms range from severe bordom to severe laughter.

Consider the following case:

On Twin Earth, a brain in a vat is at the wheel of a runaway trolley. There are only two options that the brain can take: the right side of the fork in the track or the left side of the fork. There is no way in sight of derailing or stopping the trolley and the brain is aware of this, for the brain knows trolleys. The brain is causally hooked up to the trolley such that the brain can determine the course which the trolley will take.

On the right side of the track there is a single railroad worker, Jones, who will definitely be killed if the brain steers the trolley to the right. If the railman on the right lives, he will go on to kill five men for the sake of killing them, but in doing so will inadvertently save the lives of thirty orphans (one of the five men he will kill is planning to destroy a bridge that the orphans' bus will be crossing later that night). One of the orphans that will be killed would have grown up to become a tyrant who would make good utilitarian men do bad things. Another of the orphans would grow up to become G.E.M. Anscombe, while a third would invent the pop-top can.

If the brain in the vat chooses the left side of the track, the trolley will definitely hit and kill a railman on the left side of the track, "Leftie" and will hit and destroy ten beating hearts on the track that could (and would) have been transplanted into ten patients in the local hospital that will die without donor hearts. These are the only hearts available, and the brain is aware of this, for the brain knows hearts. If the railman on the left side of the track lives, he too will kill five men, in fact the same five that the railman on the right would kill. However, "Leftie" will kill the five as an unintended consequence of saving ten men: he will inadvertently kill the five men rushing the ten hearts to the local hospital for transplantation. A further result of "Leftie's" act would be that the busload of orphans will be spared. Among the five men killed by "Leftie" are both the man responsible for putting the brain at the controls of the trolley, and the author of this example. If the ten hearts and "Leftie" are killed by the trolley, the ten prospective heart-transplant patients will die and their kidneys will be used to save the lives of twenty kidney-transplant patients, one of whom will grow up to cure cancer, and one of whom will grow up to be Hitler. There are other kidneys and dialysis machines available, however the brain does not know kidneys, and this is not a factor.

Assume that the brain's choice, whatever it turns out to be, will serve as an example to other brains-in-vats and so the effects of his decision will be amplified. Also assume that if the brain chooses the right side of the fork, an unjust war free of war crimes will ensue, while if the brain chooses the left fork, a just war fraught with war crimes will result. Furthermore, there is an intermittently active Cartesian demon deceiving the brain in such a manner that the brain is never sure if it is being deceived.

QUESTION: What should the brain do?

[ALTERNATIVE EXAMPLE: Same as above, except the brain has had a commisurotomy, and the left half of the brain is a consequentialist and the right side is an absolutist.]

http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/Tissues.htm

BAMF · 02-25-2006, 07:25 PM

Right Consequences:
Kills Jones
10 donor pateints live
"lefty" inadvertenly kills 5 men rushing hearts to hospital
Therefore inadvertently saves 30 orphans
Tyrant, G.E.M. Anscombe, pop-top can
No livers, but Hitler and cure cancer with dialysis
unjust war free of war crimes

Left Consequences:
Jones Lives
Jones kills 5 men
Jones inadvertently saves 30 orphans
Tyrant, G.E.M. Anscombe, pop-top can
Kills "lefty"
Destroys 10 donor hearts
10 heart patients die, donate 20 livers
Hitler and cure cancer
Just war with war crimes

Author and person responsible for puttin brain on rail die either way, and a demon may be decieving

Brain knows:
Right: Kill Jones
Left: Kill Lefty, destroy 10 hearts

I would guess that the brain goes right, but I probably dont get it

Zeraph · 02-25-2006, 09:15 PM

It's a satire, not a punch-line joke or a riddle. If you click on the link, at the bottom there are two links that describe the joke.

Humor is wasted on the serious.

AngelicVampire · 02-26-2006, 04:06 AM

Follow the third code of Kang, turn right.

CSflim · 02-26-2006, 06:11 AM

Hahahahaha Zeraph, that was hilarious!

Carno · 02-26-2006, 09:40 AM

I dunno, I didn't find it funny at all. What did yall find funny about it? Are you guys philosophy majors?

rlbond86 · 02-26-2006, 03:25 PM

I suppose only philosophy people would get it... I'm lost.

Sage · 02-26-2006, 08:39 PM

(O_0).....

that's almost as dumb as the clown joke..... almost.....

BigBen · 02-27-2006, 08:54 AM

So the philosopher says "That is quite a dilemma. What do you call it?"

And the Brain in the Jar says "The Aristocrats!"

vanblah · 02-27-2006, 02:08 PM

To answer the question posed in the headline: What should the brain do?

The same thing it does every other day, Pinkie, try to take over the world!

CSflim · 02-27-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanblah

To answer the question posed in the headline: What should the brain do?

The same thing it does every other day, Pinkie, try to take over the world!

Very nice!

Zeraph · 02-27-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanblah

To answer the question posed in the headline: What should the brain do?

The same thing it does every other day, Pinkie, try to take over the world!

Vanblah wins

MageB420666 · 02-27-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen

So the philosopher says "That is quite a dilemma. What do you call it?"

And the Brain in the Jar says "The Aristocrats!"

hahaha... that's awesome, I actually got the reference...

02-25-2006, 05:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	What should the brain do? I got a kick out of this. Warning: May not be for everyone. Symptoms range from severe bordom to severe laughter. Consider the following case: On Twin Earth, a brain in a vat is at the wheel of a runaway trolley. There are only two options that the brain can take: the right side of the fork in the track or the left side of the fork. There is no way in sight of derailing or stopping the trolley and the brain is aware of this, for the brain knows trolleys. The brain is causally hooked up to the trolley such that the brain can determine the course which the trolley will take. On the right side of the track there is a single railroad worker, Jones, who will definitely be killed if the brain steers the trolley to the right. If the railman on the right lives, he will go on to kill five men for the sake of killing them, but in doing so will inadvertently save the lives of thirty orphans (one of the five men he will kill is planning to destroy a bridge that the orphans' bus will be crossing later that night). One of the orphans that will be killed would have grown up to become a tyrant who would make good utilitarian men do bad things. Another of the orphans would grow up to become G.E.M. Anscombe, while a third would invent the pop-top can. If the brain in the vat chooses the left side of the track, the trolley will definitely hit and kill a railman on the left side of the track, "Leftie" and will hit and destroy ten beating hearts on the track that could (and would) have been transplanted into ten patients in the local hospital that will die without donor hearts. These are the only hearts available, and the brain is aware of this, for the brain knows hearts. If the railman on the left side of the track lives, he too will kill five men, in fact the same five that the railman on the right would kill. However, "Leftie" will kill the five as an unintended consequence of saving ten men: he will inadvertently kill the five men rushing the ten hearts to the local hospital for transplantation. A further result of "Leftie's" act would be that the busload of orphans will be spared. Among the five men killed by "Leftie" are both the man responsible for putting the brain at the controls of the trolley, and the author of this example. If the ten hearts and "Leftie" are killed by the trolley, the ten prospective heart-transplant patients will die and their kidneys will be used to save the lives of twenty kidney-transplant patients, one of whom will grow up to cure cancer, and one of whom will grow up to be Hitler. There are other kidneys and dialysis machines available, however the brain does not know kidneys, and this is not a factor. Assume that the brain's choice, whatever it turns out to be, will serve as an example to other brains-in-vats and so the effects of his decision will be amplified. Also assume that if the brain chooses the right side of the fork, an unjust war free of war crimes will ensue, while if the brain chooses the left fork, a just war fraught with war crimes will result. Furthermore, there is an intermittently active Cartesian demon deceiving the brain in such a manner that the brain is never sure if it is being deceived. QUESTION: What should the brain do? [ALTERNATIVE EXAMPLE: Same as above, except the brain has had a commisurotomy, and the left half of the brain is a consequentialist and the right side is an absolutist.] http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/Tissues.htm

02-26-2006, 06:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Hahahahaha Zeraph, that was hilarious! __________________

02-26-2006, 09:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	I dunno, I didn't find it funny at all. What did yall find funny about it? Are you guys philosophy majors? __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

02-26-2006, 08:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	(O_0)..... that's almost as dumb as the clown joke..... almost..... __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

02-27-2006, 08:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	So the philosopher says "That is quite a dilemma. What do you call it?" And the Brain in the Jar says "The Aristocrats!" __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

02-25-2006, 07:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
BAMF Crazy	Right Consequences: Kills Jones 10 donor pateints live "lefty" inadvertenly kills 5 men rushing hearts to hospital Therefore inadvertently saves 30 orphans Tyrant, G.E.M. Anscombe, pop-top can No livers, but Hitler and cure cancer with dialysis unjust war free of war crimes Left Consequences: Jones Lives Jones kills 5 men Jones inadvertently saves 30 orphans Tyrant, G.E.M. Anscombe, pop-top can Kills "lefty" Destroys 10 donor hearts 10 heart patients die, donate 20 livers Hitler and cure cancer Just war with war crimes Author and person responsible for puttin brain on rail die either way, and a demon may be decieving Brain knows: Right: Kill Jones Left: Kill Lefty, destroy 10 hearts I would guess that the brain goes right, but I probably dont get it

02-25-2006, 09:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	It's a satire, not a punch-line joke or a riddle. If you click on the link, at the bottom there are two links that describe the joke. Humor is wasted on the serious.

02-26-2006, 04:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
AngelicVampire Insane	Follow the third code of Kang, turn right.

02-26-2006, 03:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
rlbond86 Insane	I suppose only philosophy people would get it... I'm lost.

02-27-2006, 02:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
vanblah Junkie	To answer the question posed in the headline: What should the brain do? The same thing it does every other day, Pinkie, try to take over the world!