silver26

I don't want this to turn into another PSP vs DS debate... I think the DS is gonna rock. But I wish that it would have an analog stick! I am a big Metroid Prime fan, and I can't really see myself using a stylus to play it.

I was photoshopping this pic, when I thought - maybe Nintendo had a plan when it made the gamecube discs really small... I bet they put out a handheld to use them in the future. Perhaps the DS is just a system to buy up time before they can get the gamecube power in a handheld.

__________________
I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the inbetween is mine.

irateplatypus

hmm... well, i'm not sure how well an analog stick would work given the space constraints (it would have to be a short throw). also, for the games i play on a handheld i would prefer a d-pad over an analog stick were i forced to choose between the two.

i like your photoshop though... it seems like a analog stick would blend well into the ds. i'm doubting nintendo will include one, but ya never know.

i know you didn't want a ds/psp debate, but i feel this applies to all handheld consoles:

analog sticks tend to wear out. w/the home consoles you end up buying extra controllers or replacing old ones to negate this. an expensive handheld would have a smaller stick w/out the option of replacement. a tiny little analog stick as your primary means of control on a tiny little $200-300 system better hold up like a champ.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

omega2K4

That is the only reason I'm not getting a DS. No analog stick. When I'm playing 3D games, I want an analog stick, not a directional pad or a piece of shit stylus.

__________________
"While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

hulk

Hmm, never thought about the wear factor. My 'Cube controllers are on their last legs after just over a year of intense gaming. My N64 sticks lasted about 6 months, same as my PS dual shock controller. It'll be interesting to see how long the PSP can put out before it wears out. If it's anything like the battery life *snicker*

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

irateplatypus

yeah, imagine having a psp with a stick that feels like one of the .25 cent whore joysticks they have on display at wal-mart. you'd almost have to get a brand new system.

i will say though, joystick wear has been extended considerably. n64 was unexcusably short... dual shock, xbox, and gc are better. i get about twice as much wear out of a dual shock and a gc that my old n64 controllers.

again, the difference is that you can spread your console joystick workload around several controllers inexpensively. handheld... not so.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

omega2K4

It wouldn't be that hard to manufacture replaceable analog sticks, that could "snap" into place.

__________________
"While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

irateplatypus

no it wouldn't... or at least from my uneducated assessment it wouldn't seem to be. haven't heard a peep about it though. i'm betting that if sony intended to include that as a feature it would've been announced long ago.

it appears that with todays news: the nail has been driven in the analog coffin for the ds. too bad, i think it would've really added to the system.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Bim

Mabey it's the fact that Nintendo realized this problem with having Joysticks. They could be just saving people more money in the long run. Nintendo cares about there customers, so it's practical to not burdon the consumer with replacing parts, of sending the handheld in for repairs. I belive it was a wise move on Nintendos behalf. They could just as easily add the anolog feature to the D-Pad, a la PS2 Controller. It won't be as good as having a Stick. But atleast its anolog. Nintendo has never done wrong in my eyes, so I trust there judgement. No doubt this will be another good peice of entertainment.

__________________
"If you stay here too long, you'll end up frying your brain. Yes, you will. No, you will...not. Yesno, you will won't." -Guy in Moonside

hulk

C'mooon, Nintendo are great, but sure as hell ain't perfect =)

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

00111000

This kind of always bothered me about Nintendo, poor implementation of input controls. They always say something like "there is no space on the hardware for that" but other companies manage to pull it off in the almost the same amount of area. Not having X/Y buttons on the GBA still irks me. But for the DS I don't see myself needing the analog stick...as most games I play on Nintendo handhelds work fine with the d-pad.

I never really had a problem with the analog sticks wearing out, my neo geo pocket still works as good as it did the day I bought it, and that was one of the best controls ever I think. I have had a chance to play with the PSP hardware and have grown to like the stick. At first it felt weird but after a little bit I got comfortable with it that is until I got my skin caught between the stick and the casing thanks to me hamfisting the thing.

__________________
- And so he says, 'I don't like the cut of your jib.' And I go I says, IT'S THE ONLY JIB I GOT, BABY! -

irateplatypus

hmm... the gba thing is the only instance i can think of when nintendo has dropped the ball on controllers.

the NES, SNES, VB and certainly the N64 were all way ahead of its time and it's contemporary competitors. i would argue they've been an innovator in controllers over the past 20 years.

the GC controller is most comfortable for me among the three current ones, XBOX coming in second. but, i realize it's a matter of aquired taste with those three.

but yeah, i know what you're saying. it was silly not to include x and y on the GBA. especially considering how many snes ports they had up their sleeves.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

silver26

Xbox's S-Type is pretty good, but I find the gamecube to be more ergonomic. I thought the A B Y X Z layout was weird at first, but it has definitely grown on me.

__________________
I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the inbetween is mine.

hulk

The S-Type feels good because it's almost an exact rip of the gamecube controller =)

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

xepherys

Uhm... WHAT???

Now, I know some eople prefer the GC controller over the S-Controller, so that's not my argument... but HOW is it even close to a rip?

a) Xbox xontrollers have trigger-style triggers. GC controllers have uni-point style triggers that are MUCH less sensitive.

b) Xbox controllers allow the analog sticks to also be buttons, this adds a great deal of options for combat-based games at least (and is used in many games regardless).

c) The S-Controllers "wings" are more ergonomically designed. Miscrosoft actually worked with a company that did ergonomics testing when designing the controller, Nintendo, as usual, did not. The result is that the S-Controller is a little heavier, smoother and more rounded to fit the curve of most people's fingers... unless you have big hands, in which case the standard Xbox controller is more for you, and the GC controller would be entirely too small.

d) As for Nintendo's "innovation" with controllers? The N64 is, hands down, the worst controller to EVER make it to market with a system for it's time.


All this said, I love my GC. I'm not slamming the console at all, but aside from the fact that the wavebird is the best wireless controller available, and microsoft does not have a branded wireless for the Xbox, Microsoft did a much better job than Nintendo or Sony on this round of controllers. I just pray Xbox Next uses S-Controllers as well.

hulk

I was more talking about the positioning of the analogue sticks, they're in the exact same place. I hold the controller identically, it feels the same. Except for the shitty buttons.

Oh, and I have huge hands, and I still think the X-Box original controller is too big

__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

irateplatypus

i really liked the n64 controller in its time. playing 3-d games with that is a huge improvement over its contemporary saturn and ps control pads. it is awkward, but it was the first analog controller for consoles. i'll take an awkward analog control for my console over have to use a d-pad for my 3-d console games anyday.

i remember ign saying something about how they're incorporating faux-analog control for the ds with just the dpad. i forget how, but it sounded weird at first but they said they got used to it fairly quickly. tapping it in the same direction gets a "run"? i dunno, but i hope they get it right if they're going to release something akin to super mario 64 on it.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Scorps

So what does the DS look like?

silver26

__________________
I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the inbetween is mine.

Scorps

Nice , but yes it could use a stick!

irateplatypus

what do you guys think about the feasibility of using the touchscreen as an analog device? you could use your bare finger or perhaps a little finger glove w/a stylus nib on the fingertip.

flight simulators would work well that way, you could even flip switchs and toggle a HUD in a virtual cockpit on the bottom touch-screen while the outside landscapes would be shown on the top one. i like this idea the more i think about it.

racing games require a bit more reactive precision... but it's doable. modifying the control scheme where sliding left and right turn vehicle, while sliding forward and backword would be acceration and braking.

i'd still prefer a stick on top of all this, but there may be some way to work it all out.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

silver26

__________________
I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the inbetween is mine.