Xbox Next aka Xenon - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

bltzkriegmcanon · 06-24-2004, 07:34 AM

Ok guys, time for some really, really good shit from the rumor mill. I found this linked on IGN.com from news.spong.com, and I gotta say, this fuckin' blew me away. If you don't feel like reading all this on this page, here's the original story.

Quote:

We received this morning perhaps the most detailed essay to date purporting to be a leaked internal Xbox 2 memo from Microsoft.

The spec claims to be by Pete Isensee, Development Lead, Xbox Advanced Technology Group.

Here is the entire document reproduced in full:

This documentation is an early release of the final documentation,
which may be changed substantially prior to final commercial release, and is confidential and proprietary information of MS Corporation. It is disclosed pursuant to a nondisclosure agreement between the recipient and MS.

“Xenon” is the code name for the successor to the Xbox game console from MS. Xenon is expected to launch in 2005. This white paper is designed to provide a brief overview of the primary hardware features of the console from a game developer’s standpoint.

Caveats
In some cases, sizes, speeds, and other details of the Xenon console have not been finalized. Values not yet finalized are identified with a “+” sign, indicating that the numbers may be larger than indicated here. At the time of this writing, the final console is many months from entering production. Based on our experience with Xbox, it’s likely that some of this information will change slightly for the final console.

For additional information on various hardware components, see the other relevant white papers.

Hardware Goals
Xenon was designed with the following goals in mind:

Focus on innovation in silicon, particularly features that game developers need. Although all Xenon hardware components are technologically advanced, the hardware engineering effort has concentrated on digital performance in the CPU and GPU.
Maximise general purpose processing performance rather than fixed-function hardware. This focus on general purpose processing puts the power into the Xenon software libraries and tools. Rather than being hamstrung by particular hardware designs, software libraries can support the latest and most efficient techniques.
Eliminate the performance issues of the past. On Xbox, the primary bottlenecks were memory and CPU bandwidth. Xenon does not have these limitations.

Basic Hardware Specifications
Xenon is powered by a 3.5+ GHz IBM PowerPC processor and a 500+ MHz ATI graphics processor. Xenon has 256+ MB of unified memory. Xenon runs a custom operating system based on MS Windows NT, similar to the Xbox operating system. The graphics interface is a superset of MS Direct3D version 9.0.

CPU
The Xenon CPU is a custom processor based on PowerPC technology. The CPU includes three independent processors (cores) on a single die. Each core runs at 3.5+ GHz. The Xenon CPU can issue two instructions per clock cycle per core. At peak performance, Xenon can issue 21 billion instructions per second.

The Xenon CPU was designed by IBM in close consultation with the Xbox team, leading to a number of revolutionary additions, including a dot product instruction for extremely fast vector math and custom security features built directly into the silicon to prevent piracy and hacking.

Each core has two symmetric hardware threads (SMT), for a total of six hardware threads available to games. Not only does the Xenon CPU include the standard set of PowerPC integer and floating-point registers (one set per hardware thread), the Xenon CPU also includes 128 vector (VMX) registers per hardware thread. This astounding number of registers can drastically improve the speed of common mathematical operations.

Each of the three cores includes a 32-KB L1 instruction cache and a 32-KB L1 data cache. The three cores share a 1-MB L2 cache. The L2 cache can be locked down in segments to improve performance. The L2 cache also has the very unusual feature of being directly readable from the GPU, which allows the GPU to consume geometry and texture data from L2 and main memory simultaneously.

Xenon CPU instructions are exposed to games through compiler intrinsics, allowing developers to access the power of the chip using C language notation.

GPU
The Xenon GPU is a custom 500+ MHz graphics processor from ATI. The shader core has 48 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALUs) that can execute 64 simultaneous threads on groups of 64 vertices or pixels. ALUs are automatically and dynamically assigned to either pixel or vertex processing depending on load. The ALUs can each perform one vector and one scalar operation per clock cycle, for a total of 96 shader operations per clock cycle. Texture loads can be done in parallel to ALU operations. At peak performance, the GPU can issue 48 billion shader operations per second.

The GPU has a peak pixel fill rate of 4+ gigapixels/sec (16 gigasamples/sec with 4× antialiasing). The peak vertex rate is 500+ million vertices/sec. The peak triangle rate is 500+ million triangles/sec. The interesting point about all of these values is that they’re not just theoretical—they are attainable with nontrivial shaders.

Xenon is designed for high-definition output. Included directly on the GPU die is 10+ MB of fast embedded dynamic RAM (EDRAM). A 720p frame buffer fits very nicely here. Larger frame buffers are also possible because of hardware-accelerated partitioning and predicated rendering that has little cost other than additional vertex processing. Along with the extremely fast EDRAM, the GPU also includes hardware instructions for alpha blending, z-test, and antialiasing.

The Xenon graphics architecture is a unique design that implements a superset of Direct3D version 9.0. It includes a number of important extensions, including additional compressed texture formats and a flexible tessellation engine. Xenon not only supports high-level shading language (HLSL) model 3.0 for vertex and pixel shaders but also includes advanced shader features well beyond model 3.0. For instance, shaders use 32-bit IEEE floating-point math throughout. Vertex shaders can fetch from textures, and pixel shaders can fetch from vertex streams. Xenon shaders also have the unique ability to directly access main memory, allowing techniques that have never before been possible.

As with Xbox, Xenon will support precompiled push buffers (“command buffers” in Xenon terminology), but to a much greater extent than the Xbox console does. The Xbox team is exposing and documenting the command buffer format so that games are able to harness the GPU much more effectively.

In addition to an extremely powerful GPU, Xenon also includes a very high-quality resize filter. This filter allows consumers to choose whatever output mode they desire. Xenon automatically scales the game’s output buffer to the consumer-chosen resolution.

Memory and Bandwidth
Xenon has 256+ MB of unified memory, equally accessible to both the GPU and CPU. The main memory controller resides on the GPU (the same as in the Xbox architecture). It has 22.4+ GB/sec aggregate bandwidth to RAM, distributed between reads and writes. Aggregate means that the bandwidth may be used for all reading or all writing or any combination of the two. Translated into game performance, the GPU can consume a 512×512×32-bpp texture in only 47 microseconds.

The front side bus (FSB) bandwidth peak is 10.8 GB/sec for reads and 10.8 GB/sec for writes, over 20 times faster than for Xbox. Note that the 22.4+ GB/sec main memory bandwidth is shared between the CPU and GPU. If, for example, the CPU is using 2 GB/sec for reading and 1 GB/sec for writing on the FSB, the GPU has 19.4+ GB/sec available for accessing RAM.

Eight pixels (where each pixel is color plus z = 8 bytes) can be sent to the EDRAM every GPU clock cycle, for an EDRAM write bandwidth of 32 GB/sec. Each of these pixels can be expanded through multisampling to 4 samples, for up to 32 multisampled pixel samples per clock cycle. With alpha blending, z-test, and z-write enabled, this is equivalent to having 256 GB/sec of effective bandwidth! The important thing is that frame buffer bandwidth will never slow down the Xenon GPU.

Audio
The Xenon CPU is a superb processor for audio, particularly with its massive mathematical horsepower and vector register set. The Xenon CPU can process and encode hundreds of audio channels with sophisticated per-voice and global effects, all while using a fraction of the power of a single CPU core.

The Xenon system south bridge also contains a key hardware component for audio—XMA decompression. XMA is the native Xenon compressed audio format, based on the WMA Pro architecture. XMA provides sound quality higher than ADPCM at even better compression ratios, typically 6:1–12:1. The south bridge contains a full silicon implementation of the XMA decompression algorithm, including support for multichannel XMA sources. XMA is processed by the south bridge into standard PCM format in RAM. All other sound processing (sample rate conversion, filtering, effects, mixing, and multispeaker encoding) happens on the Xenon CPU.

The lowest-level Xenon audio software layer is XAudio, a new API designed for optimal digital signal processing. The Xbox Audio Creation Tool (XACT) API from Xbox is also supported, along with new features such as conditional events, improved parameter control, and a more flexible 3D audio model.

Input/Output
As with Xbox, Xenon is designed to be a multiplayer console. It has built-in networking support including an Ethernet 10/100-BaseT port. It supports up to four controllers. From an audio/video standpoint, Xenon will support all the same formats as Xbox, including multiple high-definition formats up through 1080i, plus VGA output.

In order to provide greater flexibility and support a wider variety of attached devices, the Xenon console includes standard USB 2.0 ports. This feature allows the console to potentially host storage devices, cameras, microphones, and other devices.

Storage
The Xenon console is designed around a larger world view of storage than Xbox was. Games will have access to a variety of storage devices, including connected devices (memory units, USB storage) and remote devices (networked PCs, Xbox Live). At the time of this writing, the decision to include a built-in hard disk in every Xenon console has not been made. If a hard disk is not included in every console, it will certainly be available as an integrated add-on component.

Xenon supports up to two attached memory units (MUs). MUs are connected directly to the console, not to controllers as on Xbox. The initial size of the MUs is 64 MB, although larger MUs may be available in the future. MU throughput is expected to be around 8 MB/sec for reads and 1 MB/sec for writes.

The Xenon game disc drive is a 12× DVD, with an expected outer edge throughput of 16+ MB/sec. Latency is expected to be in the neighborhood of 100 ms. The media format will be similar to Xbox, with approximately 6 GB of usable space on the disk. As on Xbox, media will be stored on a single side in two 3 GB layers.

Industrial Design
The Xenon industrial design process is well under way, but the final look of the box has not been determined. The Xenon console will be smaller than the Xbox console. The standard Xenon controller will have a look and feel similar to the Xbox controller. The primary changes are the removal of the Black and White buttons and the addition of shoulder buttons. The triggers, thumbsticks, D-pad, and primary buttons are essentially unchanged. The controller will support vibration.

Xenon Development Kit
The Xenon development environment follows the same model as for Xbox. Game development occurs on the PC. The resulting executable image is loaded by the Xenon development kit and remotely debugged on the PC. MS Visual Studio version 7.1 continues as the development environment for Xenon.

The Xenon compiler is based on a custom PowerPC back end and the latest MS Visual C++ front end. The back end uses technology developed at MS for Windows NT on PowerPC. The Xenon software group includes a dedicated team of compiler engineers updating the compiler to support Xenon-specific CPU extensions. This team is also heavily focused on optimization work. The Xenon development kit will include accurate DVD emulation technology to allow developers to very precisely gauge the effects of the retail console disc drive.

Miscellaneous Xenon Hardware Notes

Xenon is a big-endian system. Both the CPU and GPU process memory in big-endian mode. Games ported from little-endian systems such as the Xbox or PC need to account for this in their game asset pipeline.
Tapping into the power of the CPU is a daunting task. Writing multithreaded game engines is not trivial. Xenon system software is designed to take advantage of this processing power wherever possible. The Xbox Advanced Technology Group (ATG) is also exploring a variety of techniques for offloading graphics work to the CPU.
People often ask if Xenon can be backward compatible with Xbox. Although the architecture of the two consoles is quite different, Xenon has the processing power to emulate Xbox. Whether Xenon will be backward compatible involves a variety of factors, not the least of which is the massive development and testing effort required to allow Xbox games run on Xenon.

Let the whacking begin!

glytch · 06-24-2004, 09:15 AM

Wow.......

Sounds nice. The thing that I'm most excited about (other than the quality of the games, of course) is the out-of-the-box support for network storage. That should lead to some very interesting possibilities.

Jam · 06-24-2004, 10:30 AM

though that is just rumour

bob32 · 06-24-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Developers working on Xenon technology to whom we showed the document today confirmed that it tallies with what they have been told by Microsoft about the specification of the new console - even down to the continuing procrastination over making a decision on RAM size and the inclusion of a hard drive, both issues which have not been solved as yet.

"I've not actually seen this specific document coming from Microsoft," one developer told us this afternoon, "but there's certainly nothing in there which doesn't fit with what they've been telling us. If this is a hoax, which I doubt, it's a hoax so close to the truth that it hardly makes any odds."

Full article here - http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content...e=dev&aid=3668

So it appears that this document is pretty acurate.

bltzkriegmcanon · 06-24-2004, 11:46 AM

Jesus. Well, that pretty much seals it for me. Holy crap. All these specs being true, or so close to true that a hoax or falsification would be laughable, or completely unfeasible, well damn. That's some crazy shit. A single die with 3-3.5 GHz cores. Fuck. That's some serious fucking speed.

Fremen · 06-24-2004, 03:18 PM

Quote:

...big-endian mode....little-endian...

Me no savvy, Kemosabe.

What are they talking about?

Mr.Deflok · 06-24-2004, 03:27 PM

Funny thing to notw is tha "Xenon" is the name of one of MS's most hated Mod-Chips!

bob32 · 06-24-2004, 05:42 PM

I think you're thinking of "Xenium." But I'm still surprised they'd choose a name so close to the name of a modchip. But I doubt Xenon will be the name of the final console so it doesn't matter too much.

bltzkriegmcanon · 06-24-2004, 05:56 PM

Quote:

big-endian adj.
Describes a computer architecture in which, within a given multi-byte numeric representation, the most significant byte has the lowest address (the word is stored ‘big-end-first’). Most processors, including the IBM 370 family, the PDP-10, the Motorola microprocessor families, and most of the various RISC designs are big-endian. Big-endian byte order is also sometimes called network order.

Quote:

little-endian adj.

Describes a computer architecture in which, within a given 16- or 32-bit word, bytes at lower addresses have lower significance (the word is stored ‘little-end-first’). The PDP-11 and VAX families of computers and Intel microprocessors and a lot of communications and networking hardware are little-endian.

From webopedia:

Quote:

The adjectives big-endian and little-endian refer to which bytes are most significant in multi-byte data types and describe the order in which a sequence of bytes is stored in a computer’s memory.
In a big-endian system, the most significant value in the sequence is stored at the lowest storage address (i.e., first). In a little-endian system, the least significant value in the sequence is stored first. For example, consider the number 1025 (2 to the tenth power plus one) stored in a 4-byte integer:

00000000 00000000 00000100 00000001 00000000
00000000

Big-Endian Little-Endian
representation of representation of
Address 1025 1025
00 00000000 00000001
01 00000000 00000100
02 00000100 00000000
03 00000001 00000000

Many mainframe computers, particularly IBM mainframes, use a big-endian architecture. Most modern computers, including PCs, use the little-endian system. The PowerPC system is bi-endian because it can understand both systems.

Converting data between the two systems is sometimes referred to as the NUXI problem. Imagine the word UNIX stored in two 2-byte words. In a Big-Endian systems, it would be stored as UNIX. In a little-endian system, it would be stored as NUXI.

Note that the example above shows only big- and little-endian byte orders. The bit ordering within each byte can also be big- or little-endian, and some architectures actually use big-endian ordering for bits and little-endian ordering for bytes, or vice versa.

The terms big-endian and little-endian are derived from the Lilliputians of Gulliver's Travels, whose major political issue was whether soft-boiled eggs should be opened on the big side or the little side. Likewise, the big-/little-endian computer debate has much more to do with political issues than technological merits.

Hope this clears things up.

and sorry if the table doesn't show up too well.

Fremen · 06-24-2004, 06:35 PM

Thanks, bltzkriegmcanon.

It's a little less confusing now.

bltzkriegmcanon · 06-24-2004, 06:37 PM

No prob, Bob.

Stare At The Sun · 06-24-2004, 10:53 PM

Wow...I can't wait. I love when they come out with the next gen consoles...

hulk · 06-25-2004, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Basic Hardware Specifications
Xenon is powered by a 3.5+ GHz IBM PowerPC processor.

They'll be pushing hard for that in 2005. The G5 has only just hit 2.5, and that's the top of the line model. The chips require an astounding amount of cooling too. So much that Apple has integrated liquid cooling into their new top-line G5 models. So to fit three of 'em in a console would probably need liquid nitrogen cooling to keep operational

bltzkriegmcanon · 06-25-2004, 05:09 AM

Well, it doesn't seem *too* impossible, it seems processor technology is more and more leaning to multi-core, single-die processor solutions, so it's not like they're literally gonna have 3 seperate processors inside the machine. And, since the release is probably gonna be in late 2005, 3.5 Ghz doesn't seem so impossible either, according to Moore's Law anyways. I mean, that's between 12-18 months, so a multi-core, single-die 3.5 ghz processor would probably fall right in line with Moore's Law, especially for a game console.

mr sticky · 06-25-2004, 07:45 AM

I'm not computer savvy, but doesn't 256 of RAM sound a little low when using all that processor power?

I think the Xbox is a 64Mb RAM machine with a 733 MHz processor, it seems it should at least be a 512Mb machine.

Feel free to educate and elucidate.

bltzkriegmcanon · 06-25-2004, 08:14 AM

This is a good point you make, it seems that more ram would be necessary. However, I think that it's a case of not needing to do so much multitasking, because it's a dedicated machine, it's not doing anything else, just playing games through its operating system. Now who knows if these specs are going to remain the same, I hardly doubt that they will. Between now and it's launch, I'm sure at least some part of the system will definitely change.

primal · 06-25-2004, 11:08 AM

I really hope that it works with old X-box games. The article makes it sound possible but not really a high priority.

NeverBorn · 06-25-2004, 11:54 AM

Holy shit..thats a fuckload o`power

hulk · 06-25-2004, 10:28 PM

I wasn't talking about processors in general, just the G5 chip they're using as a base. It'll be up to 3.5 Ghz, but that will be the most über PPC chip available. And they don't come cheap. I wonder how much of a loss they'll be getting per console. Also, 256 megs is kinda small. With a 64 bit chip in there, they should crank in the whole 4 terabytes =)

bltzkriegmcanon · 06-26-2004, 04:55 AM

Wait a sec, PPC's are now up to 2.5 GHz on the high-end right? Don't they follow Moore's Law, just like Intel chips? If so, is it so unexpected that a multi-core 3.5 GHz chip would be mainstream enough to be installed in a gaming console? I mean, by the time Xenon's release rolls around, it's more than possible, because the launch is slated for late 2005, so that's about 14-18 months from now, and by that point, according to Moore's law, the top o' the line PPC should be clocked at about 5 GHz. I just don't see how it's not reasonable for a multi-core 3.5 GHz chip to be in a gaming console. I mean, when Xbox hit in November 2001, we were just getting into the 1400-2000 Ghz range for high-end Intel solutions, so the 733 MHz of Xbox power made sense then. Fast forward to Xenon's launch in 2005. For me, a multi-core 3.5 GHz PPC isn't unexpected, it's right on damn time.

bob32 · 06-26-2004, 06:57 AM

I saw this on the xbox-scene.com frontpage and thought it may be of interest to you. Unfortunately they do not appear to have a link from an article that it came from. However if most of the stuff mentioned actually happened, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Quote:

>> More info gleamed from the Leaked Docs that you might find of interest...

- The Xenon Controllers will vary only slighty fronm the current models with a noted migration of the Black and White buttons to Left and Right Flipper Positions.

- Kits for Xenon Developement have double the amount of memory that the final console will have.

- Developers have been told that Live Games under Xenon will not be able to assume that a hard disk is present (at this time a decision to include a native built in hard drive had not been made) SAme developers have been told that Launch Titles for Xenon should not presume a HD is present either. They've also been told that there will be persistant storage on the majority of units.

- Interestingly enough.. Dev kits will have 80Gb or larger HD's.

- People who love speed.. will be happy to know that geometry processing is approx. 100x faster for shader performance, while memory bandwidth has been improved by 4x over the original Xbox.

- Media for the games.. a DVD variant (UDF 2.0 or higher) dual layer with at last 7GB across 2 3.5GB layers and might include support for multi game disks.

- People playing on Live on an Xbox will be able to message and communicate and do other community activities with their newer Xenon friends. Live will also host persistant data for games.

- Code is being added to allow better control for developers and publishers to limit where a game can be played via localizations strings. Expect multiple version of the same game.. for differnet regions.

- Expect Beta Hardware and Software to be in the devs hands in Q1 of 2005.

Kazic · 06-26-2004, 07:57 PM

Sounds unreal if it is true. A processor like that is gonna be huge.

As for ram @ 256mb. Think about why ram is needed. because usual processing bottlenecks need the ram to store the next set of processes.
But with a 3.5gz multicore processor doing 21billion operations per/sec why would it need such amounts of ram?
It wouldn't so to keep production costs down less ram would be just fine and still be able to process games faster than existing tech. as well as allow for expandability.

As for whether or not by release if that type of processing will be in pc's/ppc would awsome. I haven't read anything of the sort on any dev webs yet but I am now going to look a little closer. Most processors are no where near that type of thing as of yet. commercial wise anyway.

hulk · 06-26-2004, 11:48 PM

You have to look at the trend, not the law. In July 03, the G5 chip was introduced with a top of 2ghz. 10 months later, it had a top of 2.5. 'Late 2005' will be around 20 months, so from trends it should have a speed of 3.5 Ghz. Tops. Not average.

Of course, this is only speculation =) The only way, apart from breaking into IBM, is to wait and see.

cheeterbo · 06-27-2004, 09:31 PM

i have a xenon mod chip, it cranks

bob32 · 06-27-2004, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cheeterbo
i have a xenon mod chip, it cranks

So there is a xenon modchip? Never heard of it (and apparently xbox-scene hasn't either). Outta curiosity, how long has this chip been around?

Derwood · 06-28-2004, 07:54 PM

Only things I care about:

1. Built in hard drive?

2. Backwards compatible?

Graphics and sound have got to start flatlining at some point, as the Xbox already is amazing in those departments.

hulk · 06-28-2004, 10:14 PM

Microsoft has dumped the HD. They got too pissed off at all the piracy and hacking going on.

And emulating a CISC environment on the RISC PPC chip is exteremely slow. I wouldn't expect too much backwards compatability, unless Microsoft gets Virtual PC working decently.

Oh, and according to Gamespot, the original dev doc linked in this thread was bogus.

bltzkriegmcanon · 06-29-2004, 11:57 AM

Hey it was only "semi-bogus". And only because MS hasn't confirmed it. I'll keep my stock in rumors. From gameindustry.biz:

Quote:

several developers who looked at the specs as saying they looked like the real thing. "There's certainly nothing in there which doesn't fit with what they've been telling us," said one. "If this is a hoax, which I doubt, it's a hoax so close to the truth that it hardly makes any odds."

Derwood · 06-30-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hulk
Microsoft has dumped the HD. They got too pissed off at all the piracy and hacking going on.

And emulating a CISC environment on the RISC PPC chip is exteremely slow. I wouldn't expect too much backwards compatability, unless Microsoft gets Virtual PC working decently.

Oh, and according to Gamespot, the original dev doc linked in this thread was bogus.

Right, it's always the hackers and thieves that ruin it for the rest of us.

hulk · 07-01-2004, 04:39 AM

Well, they did do something decent by letting Australia get Spider-Man 2 before anyone else =P

06-24-2004, 09:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
glytch I am not permanent. Location: Tennessee	Wow....... Sounds nice. The thing that I'm most excited about (other than the quality of the games, of course) is the out-of-the-box support for network storage. That should lead to some very interesting possibilities. __________________ If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit. - Mitch Hedberg

06-24-2004, 11:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
bltzkriegmcanon Holy Knight of The Alliance Location: Stormwind, The Eastern Kingdoms, Azeroth	Jesus. Well, that pretty much seals it for me. Holy crap. All these specs being true, or so close to true that a hoax or falsification would be laughable, or completely unfeasible, well damn. That's some crazy shit. A single die with 3-3.5 GHz cores. Fuck. That's some serious fucking speed. __________________ What do you say to one last showdown? - Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 3 The password is "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." Gotcha. - The Colonel and Snake, Metal Gear Solid 3

06-24-2004, 06:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	Thanks, bltzkriegmcanon. It's a little less confusing now. __________________ Google

06-24-2004, 06:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
bltzkriegmcanon Holy Knight of The Alliance Location: Stormwind, The Eastern Kingdoms, Azeroth	No prob, Bob. __________________ What do you say to one last showdown? - Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 3 The password is "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." Gotcha. - The Colonel and Snake, Metal Gear Solid 3

06-25-2004, 05:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
bltzkriegmcanon Holy Knight of The Alliance Location: Stormwind, The Eastern Kingdoms, Azeroth	Well, it doesn't seem too impossible, it seems processor technology is more and more leaning to multi-core, single-die processor solutions, so it's not like they're literally gonna have 3 seperate processors inside the machine. And, since the release is probably gonna be in late 2005, 3.5 Ghz doesn't seem so impossible either, according to Moore's Law anyways. I mean, that's between 12-18 months, so a multi-core, single-die 3.5 ghz processor would probably fall right in line with Moore's Law, especially for a game console. __________________ What do you say to one last showdown? - Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 3 The password is "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." Gotcha. - The Colonel and Snake, Metal Gear Solid 3

06-24-2004, 10:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jam Junkie	though that is just rumour

06-24-2004, 03:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	Funny thing to notw is tha "Xenon" is the name of one of MS's most hated Mod-Chips!

06-24-2004, 05:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
bob32 Crazy	I think you're thinking of "Xenium." But I'm still surprised they'd choose a name so close to the name of a modchip. But I doubt Xenon will be the name of the final console so it doesn't matter too much.

06-24-2004, 10:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
Stare At The Sun Eh? Location: Somewhere over the rainbow	Wow...I can't wait. I love when they come out with the next gen consoles...

06-25-2004, 07:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
mr sticky Psycho Location: NC	I'm not computer savvy, but doesn't 256 of RAM sound a little low when using all that processor power? I think the Xbox is a 64Mb RAM machine with a 733 MHz processor, it seems it should at least be a 512Mb machine. Feel free to educate and elucidate. __________________ The sad thing is... as you get older you come to realize that you don't so much pilot your life, as you just try to hold on, in a screaming, defiant ball of white-knuckle anxious fury

06-25-2004, 08:14 AM	#16 (permalink)
bltzkriegmcanon Holy Knight of The Alliance Location: Stormwind, The Eastern Kingdoms, Azeroth	This is a good point you make, it seems that more ram would be necessary. However, I think that it's a case of not needing to do so much multitasking, because it's a dedicated machine, it's not doing anything else, just playing games through its operating system. Now who knows if these specs are going to remain the same, I hardly doubt that they will. Between now and it's launch, I'm sure at least some part of the system will definitely change. __________________ What do you say to one last showdown? - Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 3 The password is "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." Gotcha. - The Colonel and Snake, Metal Gear Solid 3

06-25-2004, 11:08 AM	#17 (permalink)
primal Crazy Location: Oklahoma City	I really hope that it works with old X-box games. The article makes it sound possible but not really a high priority. __________________ "Where the white women at?" -Sheriff Bart (Blazing Saddles)

06-25-2004, 11:54 AM	#18 (permalink)
NeverBorn I'm a pepper bitch..	Holy shit..thats a fuckload o`power

06-25-2004, 10:28 PM	#19 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	I wasn't talking about processors in general, just the G5 chip they're using as a base. It'll be up to 3.5 Ghz, but that will be the most über PPC chip available. And they don't come cheap. I wonder how much of a loss they'll be getting per console. Also, 256 megs is kinda small. With a 64 bit chip in there, they should crank in the whole 4 terabytes =) __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

06-26-2004, 04:55 AM	#20 (permalink)
bltzkriegmcanon Holy Knight of The Alliance Location: Stormwind, The Eastern Kingdoms, Azeroth	Wait a sec, PPC's are now up to 2.5 GHz on the high-end right? Don't they follow Moore's Law, just like Intel chips? If so, is it so unexpected that a multi-core 3.5 GHz chip would be mainstream enough to be installed in a gaming console? I mean, by the time Xenon's release rolls around, it's more than possible, because the launch is slated for late 2005, so that's about 14-18 months from now, and by that point, according to Moore's law, the top o' the line PPC should be clocked at about 5 GHz. I just don't see how it's not reasonable for a multi-core 3.5 GHz chip to be in a gaming console. I mean, when Xbox hit in November 2001, we were just getting into the 1400-2000 Ghz range for high-end Intel solutions, so the 733 MHz of Xbox power made sense then. Fast forward to Xenon's launch in 2005. For me, a multi-core 3.5 GHz PPC isn't unexpected, it's right on damn time. __________________ What do you say to one last showdown? - Ocelot, Metal Gear Solid 3 The password is "Who are the Patriots?" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." Gotcha. - The Colonel and Snake, Metal Gear Solid 3

06-26-2004, 07:57 PM	#22 (permalink)
Kazic Psycho Location: Fortress of Solitude	Sounds unreal if it is true. A processor like that is gonna be huge. As for ram @ 256mb. Think about why ram is needed. because usual processing bottlenecks need the ram to store the next set of processes. But with a 3.5gz multicore processor doing 21billion operations per/sec why would it need such amounts of ram? It wouldn't so to keep production costs down less ram would be just fine and still be able to process games faster than existing tech. as well as allow for expandability. As for whether or not by release if that type of processing will be in pc's/ppc would awsome. I haven't read anything of the sort on any dev webs yet but I am now going to look a little closer. Most processors are no where near that type of thing as of yet. commercial wise anyway. __________________ "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids,we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

06-26-2004, 11:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	You have to look at the trend, not the law. In July 03, the G5 chip was introduced with a top of 2ghz. 10 months later, it had a top of 2.5. 'Late 2005' will be around 20 months, so from trends it should have a speed of 3.5 Ghz. Tops. Not average. Of course, this is only speculation =) The only way, apart from breaking into IBM, is to wait and see. __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

06-27-2004, 09:31 PM	#24 (permalink)
cheeterbo Crazy Location: newyork	i have a xenon mod chip, it cranks

06-28-2004, 07:54 PM	#26 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	Only things I care about: 1. Built in hard drive? 2. Backwards compatible? Graphics and sound have got to start flatlining at some point, as the Xbox already is amazing in those departments. __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

06-28-2004, 10:14 PM	#27 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	Microsoft has dumped the HD. They got too pissed off at all the piracy and hacking going on. And emulating a CISC environment on the RISC PPC chip is exteremely slow. I wouldn't expect too much backwards compatability, unless Microsoft gets Virtual PC working decently. Oh, and according to Gamespot, the original dev doc linked in this thread was bogus. __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

07-01-2004, 04:39 AM	#30 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	Well, they did do something decent by letting Australia get Spider-Man 2 before anyone else =P __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.