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Old 12-13-2006, 02:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Conservatives propose Senate reform bill

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/...-senators.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBC News
Canadians will vote for senators under new bill
Last Updated: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 | 12:37 PM ET
CBC News

Prime Minister Stephen Harper introduced a Senate reform bill Wednesday that gives Canadians a say about who represents them.

The bill, which falls short of allowing full Senate elections, calls for voters to choose preferred candidates to represent their provinces and territories.

The prime minister would then appoint the senators.

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion has lashed out against the bill, calling it irresponsible, but Harper says it is a step forward.

"This bill will allow us to move to a new era in Canadian democracy," Harper told his cheering caucus at a meeting Wednesday morning in Ottawa.

"Imagine that after a century and a half, democracy will finally come to the Senate of Canada."
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The prime minister currently appoints senators without seeking public input. There are Senate elections in Alberta and British Columbia, but they are non-binding and the results are traditionally ignored by the government.

If passed into law, the bill would allow Harper to make changes to the Senate without reworking the Constitution, which would require co-operation from the provinces.

Harper said he expects the Liberals to oppose the bill. He said they have given his government a hard time with almost every change, from cuts to the GST to the new Accountability Act.

"I don't expect them to embrace Senate reform without a fight," he said. "If they wanted Senate reform, they would have done it themselves."
Dion calls bill "completely irresponsible"

Dion said changes to the Senate should address more pressing concerns.

He said the current system doesn't make sense because a province like Nova Scotia is represented by 10 senators, while a province like Alberta, with about five times the population, only has six senators.

"I think what the prime minister wants to do is completely, completely irresponsible," Dion said in French, speaking to reporters a few hours after Harper's caucus meeting.

"We would be electing senators with the current distribution and the current distribution does penalize provinces, particularly the western provinces."

Activist says bill 'a long time coming'

Bert Brown, an Alberta man who has been fighting for Senate reform for more than 20 years, said Harper's bill has been a long time coming.

When Alberta decided to hold its own Senate elections, Brown ran in three such races and won twice, but the government never appointed him to the Senate.

Brown says Harper should start the election process immediately and fill a dozen vacant seats.

"They could just have a very simple message of going to their electorate and saying people can run for the nomination process, and go forward and have an election," he said. "It's not a painful process. I've been through it three times."

Harper has talked of Senate reform for years. He officially promised change in a speech in Vancouver a year ago, when he laid out his party's platform for the January 2006 election and called the appointed Senate a "relic of the 19th century.

"We need a ballot with senators' names, and seats with senators that have been elected," he told his supporters at the time.
I am not an expert on the issue of democratic reform in Canada, I do think that more democratic processes are necessary in relation to the federal government. While Dion does point out a problem, in that the bill does not address proportionality, I still believe this is a Good Thing.

Importantly I am very interested in these issues of democratic reform, and would like to hear the opinions of fellow TFPers, and hopefully, have some new reading material on the subject. Anyone think this a bad thing? Or a bad time?
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I am not as well versed on this subject as I'd like to be. That said, opening the senate issue means, ultimately, another constitutional debate. Those are rarely good things in Canada.

The other thing is if we give more power to the Senate, and I believe that with an elected Senate we are heading to a situation where the Senate will assume more power, we do not have anything in the constitution that gives us a tool to break an impasse between the House and the Senate. As a result we would have a lot less efficiency in the system. Well, at least until we have constitutional reform to create those tools and that brings us back to constitutional reform.

The more I read, the more I think we should just abolish the Senate.


By the way, is it just me or does this really underscore Harper's hypocrisy? His appointing of a crony into the Senate and then giving him a cabinet position... the guy has never been elected (and there was a seat open where he could have run in a by-election).
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well before the Senate was a popularity contest. Frank Mahovolich of all people was put in there by the liberals. Along with other high standing liberal contributors. Basically it was a retirement "home" for liberal policitians.

Though Dion did point out a momumental problem, Harper actually took a step forward to democratic reform, a thing the liberals have not done in about 12 years (I think).

And personally, I think that Harper is just fulfilling campaign promises right now, going through his agenda and then going from there. I think after he's done or with the threat of a spring election but the Bloc, maybe he'll start on trying to work on things that are more pressing. Such as the Kyoto Accord (NDP and Green Party), Francophone alienation and Quebec separatist (Bloc) and generally dealing with socioeconomic issues within Canada such as housing for the poor, (hopefully) trying to get Alberta from a resource province into a more manufacturing province for sustainability. Trying to help out with the debt control in Quebec, trying to boost the economies in the Maritimes, boosting his "image" or promoting his party in Ontario and parts of BC, taking a look at Native issues with respect to NWT, Yukon and Nunavut.
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Old 12-14-2006, 12:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Personally, I'd rather see the Senate abolished completely, rather than recreating another level of government.
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 12-23-2006, 04:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Firstly I would like to see the Senate abolished.

If that does not happen, reform is definitely needed. The present structure is a joke, a few days work a year for big money and a great pension.
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Old 12-27-2006, 08:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
By the way, is it just me or does this really underscore Harper's hypocrisy? His appointing of a crony into the Senate and then giving him a cabinet position... the guy has never been elected (and there was a seat open where he could have run in a by-election).
Whether it is true or not the reson I heard for it is that Harper wanted someone representing the Montreal area in his Cabinet just as he has people representing the other major cities in Canada. Unfortunately, people in Montreal feel that they have to vote Liberal if they don't want to loose to the block. The Conservatives did not win a seat in Monteal.
Is this reason true or not, I don't know, but it is what I heard (live with my own ears when it was asked of Fortier).

Crony is such a loaded word, isn't it?
let's say that it was done with all bad intentions...

How many senators did Harper appoint (or advise the Governor General to appoint)? 1
He probably could have gotten away with a few more - there are 10 vacancies - if he wanted to try to fill up the senate with some conservatives.

How many did Martin Appoint? 17 (or at least 17 that are currently serving.)
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