Star Trek: Enterprise Cancelled - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Janey · 05-17-2005, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

Yeh, i like voyager, they only start to panic when there are 3+ borg cubes, they even go up against tactical cubes, now thats having balls!

I think that the borg won't appear too much in the near future star trek wise. The federation has technology perfectly able to open seriously large cans of woop-ass thanks to future janeway.

I was watching deep space nine today, and it struck me how well some of the characters are actually written, namely Garak. I know the full plot to do with garak from watching every episode, but i love how they start him off with such a mystery around him and how he never gives anyone the truth, even if his life depends on it. He's a crafty little guy, not in the same way as quark, he's more sophisticated in his approach. Damned good watching.

with respect to characters, I always had a deeply abiding respect for the Cardassians. I always thought that they were a noble and (nobly) misunderstood species, and that the humans treated them rather cavalierly.

You could almost see the misunderstandings develop in plot situations between humans and Cards which would cause the mutual disrespect to build to levels which were not recoverable.

Janey · 05-17-2005, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

I don't think a newer generation will work. The technology's getting so advanced that it takes over the plots of the stories, or every problem could be easily solved by a techno gadget from some previous episode, which sets up continuity problems.

I like the idea of having a parallel show. Set the action at the same time as TOS, with well established technology that's futuristic, but not so much that it fixes every problem. It's a time of exploration, and we know there were 12 other constitution class Starships out there. Give us another Constitution class, with a new crew, exploring a different part of the galaxy.

Or, as someone suggested, jump way ahead, to the 29th century, and set the show on a time ship. Now I generally hate time loop stuff myself, so bear with me a moment. The 29th century timeship could be a framing device for the actual show, which would seldom or never actually happen in the 29th century. Instead, we'd follow operatives being sent back in time to fix problems in the timeline. You could go to any of the three eras, or to the era between Enterprise and TOS, or the eugenics war. You could have three or four episode arcs in one era, then jump to a new one. It could be a Trek version of Quantum Leap or Voyagers! You could even occasionally send an operative back into an episode of one of the earlier series to work behind the lines.

Or, if you must do a "Next Generation" fill the gap. We still have a gap between Enterprise and TOS.

Or, assume that the timeline has been messed up by the temoral cold war, and the Xindi thing and the Borg and Voyager tampering, and reboot to the time of TOS, with the Enterprise, but with a new crew.

Or, Show the very first voyages of the NCC1701, the one with Pike, Number One, and Spock as a junior officer.

Not that I'm a Trek nerd or anything. But I will be watching the next trek series.

Ohhhhh. Star Trek: Starfleet Academy. Follow a group of cadets as they go through their four years of Starfleet Academy. If it's still alive, follow a small group on their first starship assignment, or jump ahead five years for a sequel series.

No, I haven't given it much thought. Just because I can explain exactly why all Trek species are humanoid and can interbreed does not make me a Trek nerd.

By the way, the best episode of each series is, without question:

TOS: The City on the Edge of Forever
TNG: The Best of Both Worlds
DS9: The Visitor
Voy: Living Witness
Ent: Vanishing Point

Although, for personal reasons, I harbor a very keen affection for Cogenitor (Ent.) and Outcast TNG, but recognize that they are not as good as those I've listed.

wow. I do like Star Trek, but I am no where nearly as competant as you in review/knowledge! But I do love the temporal distortion plots. They are my favourite mechanism in the serieses (sp? what is the plural for series?).

Maybe one of the episodes can explore or cleanup the discrepencies between the ST:Classic Klingons and the ST:All The Rest Klingons. I know the issue was handled tangentally in a couple of dispersed episodes, but it would be nice to have a real resolution.

Aslo, I do remember (vaguely) that there was an episode (was it in ST:TNG?) that dealt with the source of the various species in the federation, and why they have a common appearance and the ability to interbreed (wouldn't that make all humanoids the same species?). As I recall, I think that they were on a remote planet on the edge of the galaxy. Maybe Google will provide the answer (google is my version of Deap Thought).

OR... you could explain it here in the thread! (yes please!)

stevie667 · 05-17-2005, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

Aslo, I do remember (vaguely) that there was an episode (was it in ST:TNG?) that dealt with the source of the various species in the federation, and why they have a common appearance and the ability to interbreed (wouldn't that make all humanoids the same species?). As I recall, I think that they were on a remote planet on the edge of the galaxy. Maybe Google will provide the answer (google is my version of Deap Thought).

OR... you could explain it here in the thread! (yes please!)

In a nutshell: Several million years ago one humanoid looking race existed in our galaxy, they explored every region it, developing hugely advanced technology. What they didn't find however was other sentient life forms, so they couldn't share their culture and existance with anyone.
What they decided to do was take the basics of their genetic structure and populte the new developing gene pools of primordial worlds with it, hence why lots of different species look similar.
They then buggered off elsewhere and left a computer message explaining it all which was found in the TNG episode in question.

Janey · 05-17-2005, 07:33 AM

Yes, so this would explain the similarity of Humans, Ferengi, Vulcans/Romulans, Tellerites, Klingons, Cardassians, those greek gods guys, Bajorans, Andorians, green Orion Slave Girls, Denobulans, Binars, Talaxians etc etc to each other.

But when they couldn't find any other sentient species, are we to assume that the ones encountered in the series didn't evolve until later? These being species such as the Gorn, Horta etc. Also, where do the Borg fit into the scheme? Did they evolve spontaniously? Or was there a massive Fortran Project scenario played out on some world?

Lastly, I would like to know how the Q continuum is to be viewed. Are these the original 'humanoids' who buggered off into a new plane of existance. shedding physical bodies for energy immortality - there was a TNG episode about that too wasn't there?

stevie667 · 05-17-2005, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

Yes, so this would explain the similarity of Humans, Ferengi, Vulcans/Romulans, Tellerites, Klingons, Cardassians, those greek gods guys, Bajorans, Andorians, green Orion Slave Girls, Denobulans, Binars, Talaxians etc etc to each other.

But when they couldn't find any other sentient species, are we to assume that the ones encountered in the series didn't evolve until later? These being species such as the Gorn, Horta etc. Also, where do the Borg fit into the scheme? Did they evolve spontaniously? Or was there a massive Fortran Project scenario played out on some world?

Lastly, I would like to know how the Q continuum is to be viewed. Are these the original 'humanoids' who buggered off into a new plane of existance. shedding physical bodies for energy immortality - there was a TNG episode about that too wasn't there?

I'll start off with the Q, i like the Q.

According to Q, the Q have always been in existance, the universe was created, and the Q came into existance at the same time. The Q proclaim themselves to be omnipitant, but Quinn stated in a VOY episode that although they seemed to be, they were far from it.
The Q arn't an ascended (thats the Gater in me talking

) form of life.
Your correct in saying there was a TNG episode about beings evolving to a different form of life. It was quite a good episode too.

There isn't a time span as to when different forms of life evolved, all we are told is that the 'first' species didn't find anyone around when they were exploring, so they dumped some genes all over the place so that when they moved on, their species wouldn't be completly lost.

The origins of the borg are a mystery so far. There is no borg 'homeworld' as such, only a large space station type thingy in the delta quadrant. The borg have been around for hundreds possibly thousands of years. I do hope we get more info about them. Although they kinda lost their scaryness somewhat, i do love their technology and ships.

exizldelfuego · 05-17-2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

the last episode tied in the ST movie First Contact ( I believe it was First Contact) with the discovery of the frozen Borg at the Arctic circle . . . . I found this last episode (It was shown on CityTv after the holodeck episode on Friday) to be fairly interesting, as it continued to tie in the plots of the future Star Trek univers.

Actually Janey, that wasn't the last episode, it was a rerun of an episode called Regeneration from season 2 of Enterprise. Doesn't invalidate your point though, it's an example of Enterprise doing what it should have been doing, that is create support for the later series (ST Chronologics).

Janey · 05-18-2005, 07:06 AM

was it really? I wonder why CityTv packaged it as the finale?

yes I just read the link you provided. Interesting. I liked the episode and I agree, this is the kind of work i like to see in the ST franchise.

stevie667 · 05-18-2005, 03:40 PM

[QUOTE=Janey]was it really? I wonder why CityTv packaged it as the finale?[QUOTE]

Because every channel that has shown enterpise has advertised it really badly?

fresnelly · 05-22-2005, 06:43 PM

I thought that Enterprise had good bones (cast, characters, design etc...), but they squandered them with too many plots revolving around political wrangling and parallels to current events. If I wanted to watch a show about terrorist attacks, insurgents and treaty negotiations, I could just watch the news.

I look to Sci-Fi for a sense of wonder, but Enterprise never really put the crew into bizarre or truly uncharted territories after the second season.

I now get my fix from Doctor Who. It's surpassed all my expectations!

Gilda · 05-22-2005, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresnelly

I thought that Enterprise had good bones (cast, characters, design etc...), but they squandered them with too many plots revolving around political wrangling and parallels to current events.

Hmm. TOS was mostly morality plays about American culture, TNG the same, DS9 was one big, long exploration of the nature of religion, war and politics (The Federation was the Americans, the Bajorans Jews, the Cardassians Nazis, the shapeshifters Communists, etc.). The prime directive itself is a statement of political philosophy, ie that the more powerful countries should allow the developing nations to develop naturally.

Enterprise maybe didn't have enough SF layered on top of the morality play.

fresnelly · 05-22-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

Enterprise maybe didn't have enough SF layered on top of the morality play.

Exactly. I feel that TOS and TNG approached these issues with way more style and creativity. Where TOS had Half Black/Half White Aliens wrestling, or civilizations oppressed by malfunctioning Supercomputers, Enterprise just transplanted current events into space and changed the names.

Furthermore, Enterprise plots were constantly tied to military heirarchy. Too often the drama was merely about whether to obey orders or not, rather than exploring broader issues.

An exception was the episode where they cloned Trip.

stevie667 · 05-23-2005, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresnelly

Furthermore, Enterprise plots were constantly tied to military heirarchy. Too often the drama was merely about whether to obey orders or not, rather than exploring broader issues.

You have a good point there. They sort of started to move past that in later episodes, but there wasn't enough ass kicking and so forth when they did break orders, just some scowled faces.

Willravel · 05-23-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

IOr, Show the very first voyages of the NCC1701, the one with Pike, Number One, and Spock as a junior officer.

Now THAT is a good idea!!!!! That might do really well.

stevie667 · 05-23-2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Now THAT is a good idea!!!!! That might do really well.

It would, but you couldn't have Spock played by another actor. Leonard Nimoy IS spock, he even wrote a book about it. Replacing him would lead to a civil war among fans

05-18-2005, 03:40 PM	#48 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	[QUOTE=Janey]was it really? I wonder why CityTv packaged it as the finale?[QUOTE] Because every channel that has shown enterpise has advertised it really badly? __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

05-17-2005, 07:33 AM	#44 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	Yes, so this would explain the similarity of Humans, Ferengi, Vulcans/Romulans, Tellerites, Klingons, Cardassians, those greek gods guys, Bajorans, Andorians, green Orion Slave Girls, Denobulans, Binars, Talaxians etc etc to each other. But when they couldn't find any other sentient species, are we to assume that the ones encountered in the series didn't evolve until later? These being species such as the Gorn, Horta etc. Also, where do the Borg fit into the scheme? Did they evolve spontaniously? Or was there a massive Fortran Project scenario played out on some world? Lastly, I would like to know how the Q continuum is to be viewed. Are these the original 'humanoids' who buggered off into a new plane of existance. shedding physical bodies for energy immortality - there was a TNG episode about that too wasn't there?

05-18-2005, 07:06 AM	#47 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	was it really? I wonder why CityTv packaged it as the finale? yes I just read the link you provided. Interesting. I liked the episode and I agree, this is the kind of work i like to see in the ST franchise.

05-22-2005, 06:43 PM	#49 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	I thought that Enterprise had good bones (cast, characters, design etc...), but they squandered them with too many plots revolving around political wrangling and parallels to current events. If I wanted to watch a show about terrorist attacks, insurgents and treaty negotiations, I could just watch the news. I look to Sci-Fi for a sense of wonder, but Enterprise never really put the crew into bizarre or truly uncharted territories after the second season. I now get my fix from Doctor Who. It's surpassed all my expectations!