Need the opinion of Star Wars fans... - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

grendel · 05-23-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

...when no one is being forced to buy it in the first place.

but we are being forced to buy it if we want the collection on DVD. kinda stinks. i don't mind the changes so much, but i do wish both versions were available. honestly, i'd probably buy both, and i bet i'm not alone there.

i have homemade DVDs from the laserdisc versions, so i guess i have the OOT on DVD, i just wish there was a legit DVD release of them.

SecretMethod70 · 05-23-2005, 09:54 PM

I'd buy both too...but it's not my movie to decide. I'm not going to complain when a musician adds or changes a part of a song, and I won't complain when a movie-maker does the same thing. It's his creation, his choice.

Gilda · 05-23-2005, 10:29 PM

I like the change to the young Anakin at the end of ROTJ. If he's been redeemed, it makes sense that his spirit form would be that of the man he was before he turned to the dark side.

I don't see how it makes less sense than an old man there. You never see Vader as anything but a suit for the entire movie; the spirit form is the first you see of him in human form at all. It's not as if we've been seeing the old man the whole time and it's a big change.

Also, I guess I'm in the minority in not caring about the changes Lucas made to the original trilogy. I think the retroactive numbering and titling is silly, but harmless, but then again, I don't have any connection to the original version, having seen the special edition in the late 80's or early 90's as my first time.

kutulu · 05-23-2005, 10:35 PM

I'm so sick of the "he raped my childhood" line. It's just BS. A few minor details were changed and the explosions look cooler. That's all it was.

Mr.Deflok · 05-23-2005, 11:18 PM

Personally I think it's great he's being able to make his work more accurate to his vision. I know I hate it when someone praises a drawing that I haven't finished or personally hate myself.

I only want one more change to the OT, and that is to have the Hangar duel in ANH more aggressive. I mean, the pair destest each other with a passion, Vader sees Obi-Wan as the reason he lost the love of his life and the reason he is the machine he is. Anakin to Obi-Wan is the one who betrayed his trust, murdered his friends and tried to kill him in the duel.

Years later there seems to be little hostility between them, the duel seems more like sparring practice. Of course, people would scream bloody murder if this scene was made better.

Slavakion · 05-24-2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

dude, that's what I said six posts ago:

I must have missed that. I thought that you were saying that Hayden was in the movie all along.

Quote:

Now, as for the argument that Lucas shouldn't tinker with his movies....they're HIS movies. Not ours. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. It's not mine to make the decision. I won't bother saying any more about this though as I have read both Kevin Smith and Mark Hamill make better arguments to the point than I could. But I think it's pretty silly that people complain about someone making changes to his own creations when no one is being forced to buy it in the first place.

Yeah, I guess. It's just... unsettling. Like if the person who designed the Vietnam Memorial Wall decided it would look better in white and had it changed. It's his choice, but a lot of people would be upset.

Coppertop · 05-24-2005, 11:29 AM

Still haven't seen episode 3, but here's a thought:

Showing the movies in order (1-6) would make the end of the series much more powerful. You start with Anakin as a child, and see him slowly develop into Vader as he falls to the dark side. He tries to bring his son over with him, but Luke proves too strong to fall to the temptation. The moment when Vader sacrifices his own life to destroy the Emperor and save his son from death or worse (Vader's own fate) becomes a much more powerful moment. If you've only seen 4-6 you've only seen Vader as the Sith Lord that he is, with little or no good qualities. His redemption at the end of Jedi doesn't carry too much weight. But having seen him first as the innocent boy who turned into a Sith and ultimately saves the day makes the entire series his story - thus his sacrifice is more meaningful. He catss off the dark side and returns to the light.

Yeah, you lose some drama regarding the fact that Vader is Luke's father, but taken as a whole the series is all about Vader. The other characters take a backseat to the drama that is the life of Anakin/Vader.

edit - Just thought of this. Isn't Vader the only character to appear in all 6 films? I haven't seen 3 yet, so I cannot be sure.This would definitely point to him as being the most central character in the series.

I guess Obi-Wan also makes an appearance in all the movies (even though in Jedi only as a spirit). But I still think this holds true to the entire story being all about Vader as Obi-Wan was his mentor and ultimately died by his hand.

edit edit - The droids were also in all the films.

FngKestrel · 06-22-2005, 08:04 PM

To bump this thread again, I came across this link of a blogger who wrote down the response of his son seeing the movies in order.

http://blogs.starwars.com/ghent/15

Quote:

Prequel Generation Questions A New Hope
For years we've speculated what it might be like for the first generation of Star Wars fans who watch the saga "in order"... Episode I, II, III then IV, V and VI. For me, speculation became observation as my barely-7-year-old son watched A New Hope after having seen ROTS twice. My boy is very knowledgable about the prequels, but hasn't seen ANH since he was four. For all intents and purposes, this was like a "first viewing" for him.

Here is a selection of his many, many questions... none of which I had when I saw ANH at the age of six...

- after recognizing the Tantive IV corridore, "Hey, they didn't have all those people in there before. Where did they get them."

- later in that same scene, "Are the Republic troops clones too? They all look the same?" (Of course, by Republic troops he meant what we've always called Rebels. But being on an Alderaan ship... who is correct?)

- "Wow! Is the Death Star done already? I guess that's how you know that a long time has passed."

- "Look... Obi-Wan is pretending he doesn't know R2-D2." (see Hole/No-hole: Why doesn't Obi-Wan remember R2? )

- in Ben's hut: "Where is Qui-Gon? I thought Obi-Wan was supposed to be training with him?"

- as C-3PO throws a Jawa body on the pile... "Do you think that R2-D2 started that fire with his jet rockets?"

- "How can the Emperor dissolve the Senate? Didn't he destroy it trying to kill Yoda?"

- "Is Chewbacca the only Wookiee that survives the Clone Wars?" (with great concern)

- "Why don't those ships need Hyperspace rings?"

- "So, does this mean that R2-D2 is really the main character in Star Wars?"

- and finally, though not prequel-provoked, "Why are red leader and gold leader the leaders? They don't know what they're doing..."

These are all making me think. What a blast seeing Star Wars with fresh eyes. Stay tuned for a report when we screen "The Empire Strikes Back".

Cuatela · 06-23-2005, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerYoda

Just show him the original trilogy, and when he asks about the first three, tell him they don't exist, and that anyone who ever tells him otherwise is just a mouthpiece for Satan.

That's blasphemy! *runs to get a pitchfork*

Show him the episodes in order. That's how they were meant to be shown.

Suave · 06-23-2005, 09:36 AM

Definitely by release. While I enjoy Episodes II and III (and about the last 20 minutes of Ep. I), they don't have the charisma to pull a new viewer into the saga like the original trilogy does. Plus, starting with Episode I would probably turn anyone off the series for good. Starting with Episode IV, arguably the best of the movies, is the best way I think.

FoolThemAll · 06-23-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

I'd buy both too...but it's not my movie to decide. I'm not going to complain when a musician adds or changes a part of a song, and I won't complain when a movie-maker does the same thing. It's his creation, his choice.

While I'm not greatly concerned over the choices Lucas made concerning his creation, why the hell shouldn't those disappointed with the choices complain? A creator is capable of turning a creation to shit and deserves criticism when s/he does so.

Lockjaw · 06-23-2005, 08:23 PM

Order of release.

Well...I'd do it this way.

With anybody over the age of say...10. Show them IV,V,VI then I,II,III.
Reason being if you want them to be a fan of the movies and not just watching them because it's part of our pop cultural heritage then something needs to be shown that is a bit gripping. Episode one was by far the weakest of the movies and honestly if I was a person who had NEVER seen Star Wars before I probably wouldn't care to see another one. I think that poorly done sequels can absolutely destroy lofty movies.
This is why I'll never likely ever show anybody the second or third Matrix movies. Those movies were so bad it absolutely ruined the original. I mean I loved the Matrix and I bought it three times over. But I still haven't bought Reloaded or Revolutions because I don't even want to waste time watching or showing such poor follow ups.

But 4,5 and 6 were so good it made me an eternal fan. Now if I was younger than 10 I probably wouldn't have cared and watching them in chronological order probably would have been best.

But I think personally as a fan from here on out...when I do watch them I'll go chronological order. I'm already a fan and that won't change and I already know the original trilogy by heart so watching it in release order means little.

Personally my order is going to be....
Episode I. Episode II. The Clone Wars cartoons. Episode III. The other show or toons that are done post Sith and pre New Hope. Episode IV. Episode V. Episode VI. And then if I really feel like finishing up my geek out...I'll go read the Thrawn series to "wrap things up".

hulk · 06-24-2005, 04:25 AM

As for plot twists, well, imagine not knowing Palpatine was lord of the sith until Ep 3? Eh? Eh? Most people miss that one because they already know

Cuatela · 06-24-2005, 08:32 AM

there's a lot of plots that are more effective if you don't see the original trilogy before the prequels. One such example was mentioned by hulk. another is the fact than Anakin becomes evil. Knowing this sweet kid turns evil makes it seem kind of stupid that he's falling in love and doing "nice" things...or at least it did to me.

archer2371 · 06-25-2005, 05:42 PM

By the release date. It's more shocking to learn Vader is Luke's father for the first time in ESB.

hulk · 06-25-2005, 08:35 PM

It's hard to say that, archer, seeing as very few people have watched them in order

Zeraph · 06-26-2005, 02:50 PM

I'd say either way, both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.

Johnny Pyro · 07-05-2005, 12:42 AM

Show it the way we all saw it. You want people to know Darth Vader first. Then wonder how he came to the darkside.

View Poll Results: In what order should I show the movies to a brand new Star Wars fan?
Release: IV, V, VI, I, II, III	100	76.34%
Chronological: I, II, III, IV, V, VI	31	23.66%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

05-23-2005, 09:54 PM	#42 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	I'd buy both too...but it's not my movie to decide. I'm not going to complain when a musician adds or changes a part of a song, and I won't complain when a movie-maker does the same thing. It's his creation, his choice. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

05-23-2005, 10:29 PM	#43 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	I like the change to the young Anakin at the end of ROTJ. If he's been redeemed, it makes sense that his spirit form would be that of the man he was before he turned to the dark side. I don't see how it makes less sense than an old man there. You never see Vader as anything but a suit for the entire movie; the spirit form is the first you see of him in human form at all. It's not as if we've been seeing the old man the whole time and it's a big change. Also, I guess I'm in the minority in not caring about the changes Lucas made to the original trilogy. I think the retroactive numbering and titling is silly, but harmless, but then again, I don't have any connection to the original version, having seen the special edition in the late 80's or early 90's as my first time. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

05-24-2005, 11:29 AM	#47 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Still haven't seen episode 3, but here's a thought: Showing the movies in order (1-6) would make the end of the series much more powerful. You start with Anakin as a child, and see him slowly develop into Vader as he falls to the dark side. He tries to bring his son over with him, but Luke proves too strong to fall to the temptation. The moment when Vader sacrifices his own life to destroy the Emperor and save his son from death or worse (Vader's own fate) becomes a much more powerful moment. If you've only seen 4-6 you've only seen Vader as the Sith Lord that he is, with little or no good qualities. His redemption at the end of Jedi doesn't carry too much weight. But having seen him first as the innocent boy who turned into a Sith and ultimately saves the day makes the entire series his story - thus his sacrifice is more meaningful. He catss off the dark side and returns to the light. Yeah, you lose some drama regarding the fact that Vader is Luke's father, but taken as a whole the series is all about Vader. The other characters take a backseat to the drama that is the life of Anakin/Vader. edit - Just thought of this. Isn't Vader the only character to appear in all 6 films? I haven't seen 3 yet, so I cannot be sure.This would definitely point to him as being the most central character in the series. I guess Obi-Wan also makes an appearance in all the movies (even though in Jedi only as a spirit). But I still think this holds true to the entire story being all about Vader as Obi-Wan was his mentor and ultimately died by his hand. edit edit - The droids were also in all the films. Last edited by Coppertop; 05-24-2005 at 12:53 PM..

06-23-2005, 09:36 AM	#50 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Definitely by release. While I enjoy Episodes II and III (and about the last 20 minutes of Ep. I), they don't have the charisma to pull a new viewer into the saga like the original trilogy does. Plus, starting with Episode I would probably turn anyone off the series for good. Starting with Episode IV, arguably the best of the movies, is the best way I think. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

05-23-2005, 10:35 PM	#44 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I'm so sick of the "he raped my childhood" line. It's just BS. A few minor details were changed and the explosions look cooler. That's all it was.

05-23-2005, 11:18 PM	#45 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	Personally I think it's great he's being able to make his work more accurate to his vision. I know I hate it when someone praises a drawing that I haven't finished or personally hate myself. I only want one more change to the OT, and that is to have the Hangar duel in ANH more aggressive. I mean, the pair destest each other with a passion, Vader sees Obi-Wan as the reason he lost the love of his life and the reason he is the machine he is. Anakin to Obi-Wan is the one who betrayed his trust, murdered his friends and tried to kill him in the duel. Years later there seems to be little hostility between them, the duel seems more like sparring practice. Of course, people would scream bloody murder if this scene was made better.

06-23-2005, 08:23 PM	#52 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	Order of release. Well...I'd do it this way. With anybody over the age of say...10. Show them IV,V,VI then I,II,III. Reason being if you want them to be a fan of the movies and not just watching them because it's part of our pop cultural heritage then something needs to be shown that is a bit gripping. Episode one was by far the weakest of the movies and honestly if I was a person who had NEVER seen Star Wars before I probably wouldn't care to see another one. I think that poorly done sequels can absolutely destroy lofty movies. This is why I'll never likely ever show anybody the second or third Matrix movies. Those movies were so bad it absolutely ruined the original. I mean I loved the Matrix and I bought it three times over. But I still haven't bought Reloaded or Revolutions because I don't even want to waste time watching or showing such poor follow ups. But 4,5 and 6 were so good it made me an eternal fan. Now if I was younger than 10 I probably wouldn't have cared and watching them in chronological order probably would have been best. But I think personally as a fan from here on out...when I do watch them I'll go chronological order. I'm already a fan and that won't change and I already know the original trilogy by heart so watching it in release order means little. Personally my order is going to be.... Episode I. Episode II. The Clone Wars cartoons. Episode III. The other show or toons that are done post Sith and pre New Hope. Episode IV. Episode V. Episode VI. And then if I really feel like finishing up my geek out...I'll go read the Thrawn series to "wrap things up".

06-24-2005, 04:25 AM	#53 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	As for plot twists, well, imagine not knowing Palpatine was lord of the sith until Ep 3? Eh? Eh? Most people miss that one because they already know __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

06-24-2005, 08:32 AM	#54 (permalink)
Cuatela Insane Location: NC, USA	there's a lot of plots that are more effective if you don't see the original trilogy before the prequels. One such example was mentioned by hulk. another is the fact than Anakin becomes evil. Knowing this sweet kid turns evil makes it seem kind of stupid that he's falling in love and doing "nice" things...or at least it did to me. __________________ Any sarcasm was intentional.

06-25-2005, 05:42 PM	#55 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	By the release date. It's more shocking to learn Vader is Luke's father for the first time in ESB. __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

06-25-2005, 08:35 PM	#56 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	It's hard to say that, archer, seeing as very few people have watched them in order __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

06-26-2005, 02:50 PM	#57 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	I'd say either way, both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.

07-05-2005, 12:42 AM	#58 (permalink)
Johnny Pyro Hey Now! Location: Massachusetts (Redneck, white boy town. I hate it here.)	Show it the way we all saw it. You want people to know Darth Vader first. Then wonder how he came to the darkside. __________________ "From delusion lead me to truth, from darkness lead me to light, from death lead me to eternal life. - Sheriff John Wydell