Strange Famous

A lot of people have been talking about how this trilogy is the new LOTR (obv I know it is also supposed to be the anti - Lion, Witch & the Wardrobe, without all the Christian propoganda too) but is this worth reading if one is a grown adult? I'm tempted to get it, but has anyone else read it?

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archer2371

Probably just about every other person on this board has read it. I'm doing my English Research Paper on Tolkien and his works. The Lord of the Rings is a great trilogy, and is worth reading by all ages (well, maybe not all ages because the diction is slightly above the reading level of a six year old). So yes, it is worth reading. However, I'm not quite sure I understand your Chronicles of Narnia reference and how LotR is anti-TCoN, Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were great friends and they both held the same Christian ideals (Tolkien had a hand in Lewis' conversion, he was an atheist).
However, back to the books themselves. They are not merely "escapism" books as some critics like to call them. Tolkien is more than likely the best author of the 20th Century (I'm biased) and he belongs with the names like Vonnegut, and Orwell as the best writers of fantasy. By no means are they children's books, and by no means are they merely "adult" books. I highly recommend them, also, if you like those, pick up The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, and the Unfinished Tales. All good reads.

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Strange Famous

I've read LOTR, I was comparing "His Dark Materials" by Phillip Pulham (sic) to CS Lewis - because Pulman is quite explicit that his book is an opposite of Narnia...

Tolkien didnt have a great deal of religion in his work, although most readers cannot help but see Mordor as Nazi Germany; I agree that LOTR is not just a children's book, it is a book that is best read at 14 but can still be enjoyed as an adult.

What I was asking was "Is "His Dark Materials" a genuine equal of LOTR, or is it just a smarter version of Harry Potter"??

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Tophat665

His Dark Materials is not a children's series. It's probably listed as a children's book because the two main characters are children, but the themes are purely adult (adolescent at the very earliest). My mother picked it up to read to her students, loved it, and gave it to me because it probably would have caused her no end of trouble if she had read it to them. I hadn't though of it as Anti-Narnia, but now that you mention it, that's an excellent description.

If you think the Christian right when apeshit over Harry Potter, you ain't seen nothing yet. If this develops that kind of popularity, there will be televangelists on the edge of apoplexy 24/7 until a couple of them have heart attacks. I really can't say much more about the books without giving away some things that would take away from the enjoyment of the books if you knew them ahead of time.

Let's just say that as Narnia is to Lord of the Rings, His Dark Materials is to The Dark Tower. It's dark and creepy and has a science fictiony kind of vibe to it underlying a Victorianish setting and a Christian mythology epic fantasy premise turned on its head.

While it is not the best series I every read, it is almost certainly in the top 10.

Edit: I should also mention that the writing is excellent: the plot is good and tight, the characters are three dimensional, and the setting is positively atmospheric - it seeps into you.

Another Edit: To answer your question about whether or not it is the equal of LOTR, that is a really toough question. Tolkien was a huge part of my growing up, so it is hard for me to tell at this point whether my enjoyment of his stuff stems from the stories themselves or from the weight of nostalgia they carry for me. However, at a guess, I would say that HDM is better written than LOTR, and is every bit as broad in scope, though not so deep in its conception. Pullman's grandson, f'rinstance, is not going to be able to write a dozen books from his notes on this series, I don't think (God I hope not). It doesn't feel like a life's work the way LOTR does, more an exceptionally good piece of craftsmanship by a very talented writer.

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diergray

His Dark Materials is an excellent story but I feel it will never be as popular as LOTR. Without giving anything away the ending would never sell in the US.

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hklong741

I tend to agree to the above, Pullman does an excellent job of writing and communicating a fantastic world(s), however it may never reach the popularity of LOTR or Narnia, but worthwhile as good literature. I am happy to recommend it, and try to keep any comparisons out of mind. It's a good read on it's own right, and I think a movie adaptation would only detract from it. There was a theatrical stage production in London, IIRC. Haven't heard much......

While I don't believe any of these books are end-all be-all of literature, I would respect someone who read them all and could later compare. The different point of views should be appreciated.

BTW, wasn't it titled differently in the states? I have the Northern Lights, Subtle Knife and Amber Spyglass, but maybe there are alternate titles. ?

Tophat665

In the US, the first book was released as "The Golden Compass". Remember, though, that book titles need to be very obvious in the US, particularly kids books. We stopped teaching them years ago.

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Cynthetiq

Newline and Scholastic are producing a movie on the first book of the Triology.

IMHO it's a great series. I can see the comparisons that plenty of people have made with HDM and LOTR, since both have incredibly deep histories and languages created just for the series. The series is selling quite well here in the US, and I do recommend it as a good read. The audiobook read by Philip Pullman is also a very good and worthwhile listen. I do NOT however recommend the BBC rendition of the trilogy. There are several other smaller books that have been written about HDM such as Lyra's Oxford and a companion guide.

I met Philip Pullman a couple years ago at a symposium where he spoke at a local college and fielded questions about his trilogy and other writings. He's a nice man.

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Dbass

I think it's a horrible idea, setting these books into a movie....part of its appeal is the idea that you are probably the only one who's read it for miles and probably the only one who would want to. It's horribly anti-Christian, I think we can just come out and say that, and it's just exciting. It also works well because the second book is rather short which really makes you anxious to tear through it into the final book. Not only that, but we don't have the technology to really effectively make a good non-human CG character - Iorek Byrnisson would be tragic in so many more ways if he looked as shitty as Jar Jar Binks...

superiorrain

His Dark Materials is the best book i have every read, after reading LOTR first i thought that that was it, nothing would compare. But this book for me blew it away and have now read it 3 times in 2 years. The film like all convesions will never be as good and already the first director had left the film. I'll be watching this space with interest.

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Charlatan

This is is an excellent series and is about as much for children as LOTR, which is to say, not really made for kids. I bought it and read it with the intention of reading it to my son (who was 8 at the time) and after reading it myself felt that much of the nuance would be lost on him. A teenager would get a lot out of it...

As for it being anti-Christian... I wouldn't use the descriptor "horribly" and I would say it is anti-Catholic. Catholic as in the chuch and not just the Roman version of it...

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Tophat665

I agree with you except on the adverb. I would have gone with "Delightfully".

That said, there is always a huge risk that any good book with get bowlderized, pasteurized, and otherwise dumbed down when it is made into a movie. Look at Lynch's treatment of Dune or Sci-Fi network's version of Ringworld. They're both awful. I'd say two out of three adaptations are crap. Howard the Duck is the poster child here. Most are just bad enough to be forgettable. Cast a Deadly Spell is one best forgotten. Don't recall the specific book it's from, but it's ar really really ultra hokey Lovecraft pastiche. I think I've seen the lead actor in porn. He's just that bad. So many or most are crap.

The ones that aren't, though, can be golden. LOTR, Blade, a whole mess of Shakespeare from the <i>Julius Ceasar</i> with Marlon Brando as Mark Antony to Brannaugh's <i>Much Ado About Nothing</i>, Starship Troopers. Fight Club. You can argue specifics, and they never please everybody, but it can be done well. This one doesn't seem to be unusually hard for Fantasy. Doesn't mean it will be done well, but that it could be.

I also agree that CGI isn't (quite) to the place where an Armored Polar bear is going to look realistic.

Look at what I just said: Is there any way at all that an armored polar bear could look realistic? Should it? Frankly CGI might be right at the place where the bear would be just the right flavor of unrealistic, particularly if they resist the temptation to exaggerate facial expressions for emotive effect. If it were done as well as Jar Jar Binks (just the visuals mind you, there is no excuse for the writing or acting on the execrable JJB) I think that would be plenty effective.

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Dbass

Ha, yeah, I guess you could say "Delightfully!"
Good point about the reality of an armored polar bear, but my main beef isn't with the medium so much as the lack of progress we've made in the field. My favorite part of the books was my ability to totally suspend disbelief and I could really sort of imagine all aspects of the movie. One selling point I think it has going is that (and keep in mind I was 17 when I read these books) everyone's gonna want a daemon and they could probably make a mint off merch sales for them!
Edit: Oh yeah, and Brannaugh's adaptation of Frankenstein is another outstanding example of bad adaptation (Actually I've never read the novel, it might be totally faithful...if so, the book must not be worth the hype!)

JStrider

maaan i grabbed the first of these books from my schools library a few days ago because of this thread... havent put it down since...(to the detriment of my studying for my tests this week)

i just now finished the second part of the first book... its really frickin good!

and man i want a daemon of my own... its a really cool idea...

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