Baraka_Guru

I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that the U.S. is generally ill-equipped for change, both culturally and socially.

In some ways, Canada has been slow to adjust to changing times too. But our biggest problem right now is employment restrictions for trained professionals coming in from overseas---you know, medical doctors driving cabs, mechanical engineers working in retail, and Ph.D.s working as driving instructors. But, we admit it's a problem and we're working on it.

Come to Toronto, though, and you will see how versatile we are with language. We're one of the most multicultural cities in the world. You'll see various bilingual or multilingual signs and businesses, and it's not just English/French. It varies by neighbourhood.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cynthetiq

but then you'll have to leave the US.

If you come to NYC, you'll see it all over the place. Subway signs in Chinese, Russian, Korean, Hebrew, Spanish, English... and probably more. There are about 170 different languages spoken by the peoples of NYC.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

LoganSnake

Chicago is the same way. We have the largest Polish population after Warsaw. Not to mention the complete collection of most of the Eastern Bloc population, Asian representatives and a shitton of others.

Assimilation be damned. America is the country of immigrants. I don't think there is one unified American culture. It's a mix of cultures, so statements like "be American or get out" are really funny to me. The only true Americans here are Native Americans so unless you are one, then you are a descendant of an earlier immigrant wave.

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Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

Wes Mantooth

In my opinion the major problem here in the US is that we haven't attempted build an infrastructure to accommodate for foreign speaking immigrants. Looking at our history of immigration we have a long standing tradition of "Americanizing" immigrants in every way possible, even going so far as to (and I'd have to check to see if this is true) give them more American sounding names straight off the boat. Its created an environment that's woefully unprepared for the influx of Spanish speaking people and worse still its created a sense of entitlement amongst US citizens to an unchanging "American culture".

I do think things are changing here in the US, it seems more and more people are open to the idea of learning or at least accepting Spanish and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few generations a good percentage of Americans have at least a basic understanding of the language.

One thing that bugs me about this issue is it plays into the stereotype of the lazy, ignorant, stupid American who can't be bothered to learn about other cultures or deal with a changing world. I hate this stereotype, its an unfair assessment of us as a people and the things we've accomplished as a nation but it gets really difficult to defend against when we make such a huge deal out of this issue. We should be able to adapt quicker and easier to a changing world and not always be dragged kicking and screaming into every cultural shift we face. I think we're better then that as a country.

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blktour

you either choose to watch it or not. I dont see why the "spanish" thing is an issue.

Take ANY commercial that you are against and use your argument. "GAY commercials for a non gay tv watcher", "meat eating commercial for a vegetarian"?

I dont think anyone is forcing you to do anything. i say take away the spanish commercials and there will be alot more to argue about than just spanish. And remember it is JUST tv. not like you go to the tv to learn or anything, or DO YOU?

CarolineBoca

I live in South Florida and have Comcast as my cable provider. I have been noticing more and more commercials in the Spanish language lately. I'm sorry and do not want to be disrespectful to anyone out there, but this is America and I can't understand why any commercials should be aired in Spanish. It is hard enough to find many people in this part of town who speak the English language. When I go to a store and need help, the staff does not understand me and therefore, I get very frustrated. Why do I have to watch Spanish commercials on TV? I have a lot of friends who are Spanish who feel the same way I do!

The_Jazz

You answered your own question. Comcast is able to target advertisements to very specific areas for the ads they sell as well as what the channels sell. So if a company wants to advertise to a specific ZIP code, they can. If they want to do it in Spanish, they can.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Baraka_Guru

Oh, and America is a free country. Mostly.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

The_Jazz

Meaning that if advertisers see an increase in sales because these commercials, they couldn't care less if they irritate non-Spanish speakers.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Wyodiver33

I have absolutely no problems with legal immigrants. I'm not going to get into the illegal argument. But ANYBODY who chooses to move to the US should learn English. I really don't understand why that is even an issue. Look it up, because I've said it several times: Move to the US? Fine! Now learn English.

I pay Comcast a lot of money. I get several Hispanic channels. Why the hell should I have to pay for those channels?

Honestly, even though Hispanics living in the US should learn English, I have no problem with them having Spanish language channels.

I just don't want to pay for channels that I don't care about.

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I like stuff.

The_Jazz

What about those folks that ARE learning English but aren't fluent yet? What about those that are more comfortable in Spanish than English? What about a population that predominantly bilingual but an advertiser choses to pander to them in their native language?

If the Spanish channels are part of the basic package you bought from Comcast, Wyodiver, why are you even complaining? I'm CERTAIN there are other channels that you don't watch; why pick on the Spanish language ones? They're part of the basic package that EVERYONE gets. Most of it is programing from other countries; if it's profitable for Comcast to show, I don't really see how it's any sort of imposition on you - large or small - to just skip the channel. Are you really complaining about the extra work it takes to depress your thumb an extra time or two? Because that's what we're really talking about here. That extra movement and it's cost.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Baraka_Guru

Packaging those Spanish-language channel broadens the market and therefore the demand, keeping your television price low.

For a nation that was built upon adamant independence and self-determination, America seems to have many citizens who cling puritanically to the language of the motherland. Once a colony, always a colony?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wyodiver33

Whatever. I'll never win this war. Everybody wants a chunk of the US.

If I moved to France I would learn French. If I moved to Germany I would learn German.

But here in the US forms have to be in English, Spanish, and Creaol (Hatien.)

Why should I be responsible for those who don't speak/write English?

__________________
I like stuff.

dippin

You do know that in France even most traffic signs have an English version, right? Same with Germany?

France:
http://www.ilankelman.org/stopsigns/france.jpg

Germany:
http://www.ilankelman.org/stopsigns/germany.jpg

That public universities in Europe often have a good chunk of their classes taught in English, right? Erasmus University, for example, teaches a good number of their classes in English.

Hell, in the Netherlands, not only you do not have to speak Dutch to be hired by most Dutch universities, but highly skilled immigrants pay lower taxes than the Dutch.

So this idea that acceptance of other languages is exclusive to the US is false. If anything, it doesn't do anywhere near as much as the other nations do.

Baraka_Guru

You make it sound like you make the forms yourself? Is that the case? If so, what would be the consequence of not making multilingual forms? What kind of forms are these? Is the translation of them difficult?

Also, Spanish-speaking and Creole-speaking peoples are as much a part of the American culture as are English-speaking peoples.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Charlatan

Until the USA adopts English its official and only language I don't see what all the fuss is about.

The US is a nation of laws. Respecting and adhering to those laws is what makes you American. I think too many American get hung up on some vague idea of American culture as it pertains to them while ignoring that America's actual strength comes from the fact that it is made up of differences rather than sameness. Historically, this sort of thing is not common. There are not all that many nations founded on difference and held together by the rule of law (most nations have lengthy history and common cultural, religions or racial ties and many are held together not by law but by decree).

I said it before... get over the assimilate thing. It's retrograde thinking that will lead you back to your colonial roots.

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dippin

Just to clarify something, making a language the official language of a nation is nothing more than a symbolic gesture with few, if any, actual repercussions.

Having an official language doesn't prevent tv shows from being in Spanish, tv ads from being in Spanish, and the government offering forms and services in other languages.

The French have some of the most strict official language policies in the world, and they still have ads, tv shows, street signs, etc. in English.

In fact, most European nations, despite having official languages, will also have universities offering classes in English, etc.

Baraka_Guru

And in places like Canada, official language is a political issue. You have societies like Quebec who work hard to maintain their culture, and the fact that Canada has both English and French as official languages, gives Quebec political leverage to get what they want legislatively regarding their language.

In a way, you want a dialogue and cooperation regarding use of language between societies where there are many speakers. The consequence is something like what Canada has (had?) with the "two solitudes"; generally, two sides of the language barrier created by a lack of communication and a lack of will to do anything about it. It makes for a fragmented society---especially one where you know you aren't going to force people to give up their language.

At least one out of ten Americans speaks Spanish as their native tongue. I don't know why anyone would want to alienate them. They are a part of the culture.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Lindy

While what you say is true, I'm not sure how it relates to Spanish language TV commercials in the USA, which are a result of immigration, both legal and uncontrolled.

World wide traffic signs and European university classes taught in English result from the fact that in our time English is a 'lingua franca,' the defacto language of commerce, technology, scientific research, etc. So you find it everywhere, and should expect to. Air traffic controllers the world over use English to communicate with airline and military pilots who probably speak dozens of different native tongues.

A lingua franca is a necessity for international commercial and cultural intercourse. Of course, it certainly doesn't have to be English, it's just turned out that way.

A hundred or two hundred years ago the French language served that same function. Before that it was Latin. In the world-wide Catholic Church, it's still Latin.

I don't want to alienate them. And I don't dislike non-English commercials any more than I dislike the ones in English. I'm an equal opportunity commercial hater. I don't want to force anyone to give up their mother tongue, either. Still, non-English speakers in the USA should learn the dominant language. And that is English.
For their sake, not mine.

Lindy

YaWhateva

You will never win this war because guess what...English isn't the official language of the United States. People keep telling you this but you don't seem to know how to get it through your thick skull.

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“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

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dippin

My point wasn't to argue for equivalency, but to show wyodiver33 that the argument that the whole "If I moved to France I would learn French. If I moved to Germany I would learn German. But here in the US forms have to be in English, Spanish, and Creaol (Hatien.)" is false. That is, the idea that there is some sort of double standard where Americans have to learn foreign languages to live abroad but foreigners don't need to learn English to come here is false.

Of course, at the end of the day both cases are about the tolerance and use of a foreign language in every day situations (and not only those related to being a lingua franca in international trade and travel), even in cases where a nation has a distinct official language.