ObieX

Locke's little "inside joke" was interesting.

As for who that boy was I'd have to also go with it being a young Jacob. Too old to be an Aaron imo. Maybe Jacob was reborn or is regrowing. Perhaps MIB/evil Locke has to get off the island before Jacob regains his super god powers (if he has any.)

There may also be some kinda time loop thing going on with Jacob. What got me thinking about that is when whats her name gathered up all of Jacob's ashes from the fire pit. Perhaps those are the original black ashes that people are spreading in circles that somehow get transported way back in time so that they can be used from the "beginning." Maybe this young Jacob gets transported back with them. Or maybe Aaron IS Jacob and somehow gets sent back in time. I just have a feeling there's more to Aaron than they have let on so far.

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Lasereth

Wasn't Aaron the first baby to be born on the Island in a long time? I wonder if he's special for some reason.

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fresnelly

I like that his name starts with two As. His name is just about as first as one can be, alphabetically speaking.

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Zeraph

I don't think the kid is Jacob, or Aaron for that matter. It's been like a day or two, if Jacob could be reborn and grow to an 8 year old boy that quickly I don't think MIB would have ever dared kill him. As he also seems scared of him, whereas he wasn't scared of Jacob.

Aaron is still too young (and how would he have gotten to the island?) For it to be him. If it was time travel then I'd think he'd be older in the first place, but I suppose its possible. Whoever the kid is though I don't think he ages or he can take on whatever form he wishes or he's dead. None of those things seem like Aaron so far, but maybe... he is blond after all.

The ashes thing is an interesting thought, but so far it seems like they've used waaay more ashes than jacob's corpse made. However, perhaps it is all the ashes of all the protectors who have died before jacob. It would require no time traveling that way. And would make sense if the protectors are replaced like they just mentioned (i.e. they age and die eventually, thereby making a reasonable amount of corpses and ashes) and that the MIB version's can't touch the protector (jacob) versions so it stands to reason he wouldn't be able to cross their ashes either.

The real question is why is there an MIB in the first place? There is an ongoing theme of dark vs light/balance stuff, so is MIB a "candidate" spot too? As in, to balance out Jacob's protector spot? Or is MIB a fallen protector (was in Jacob's old spot)? I'm leaning toward the latter.

Total speculation but I could see it going something like this. MIB was the original protector (the island is probably the garden of eden.) He was made immortal, but started going nuts from boredom/crazy long life and wanted to leave but he was tied to the garden/island. So he started trying to destroy it.

A new line of protectors were created/brought in that were allowed to eventually die, so as to avoid MIB fate. They ended up being an odd mix of enemy/friend with MIB because they were about all he had to talk to yet they were his enemies too because he wanted out (as seen in his odd "friendship" relationship with Jacob.) Repeat pattern to present day where he finally figured out a way to kill one (why we don't know, probably because Jacob foresaw that it would bring about MIB's end somehow.)

filtherton

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Sawyer ends up being the new MIB and Jack ends up being the new protector.

Also, it will be interesting to see if European History teacher Ben has anything to say about the island and what happened after it got nuked.

The_Jazz

I think the kid is Jacob. I think it's more likely that he's an unrevealed character, though, maybe the person that set Jacob and MIB in motion so long (300+ years?).

Zeraph, that's an interesting speculation about where we're headed. I thought that it was two people constantly moving in concert (the ying/yang, God/Devil concept), but the idea of a fallen protector makes sense two, especially in the Judeo-Christian mythos that's built up around the show.

filtherton, that's a very interesting prediction. And one that makes a certain sense.

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ObieX

I'm not sure they've gone through many protectors/MIBs in the past because if you remember toward the end of last season i think there was a scene where Jacob and MIB are sitting near the shore watching that pirate ship arrive. The island was around during ancient times tho so who knows, they may not go back that far.. especially considering they appeared to be wearing clothing from the same period of the pirate ship when it arrived.

When the boy first appeared it seemed that his arms were burned or just bloody, which is what made me think it was Jacob. Also just the way he interacted with Locke, saying "you know the rules" and all that. He looks very similar to Jacob... but then again he also looks a lot like Claire. They may all be related somehow. I forget if they ever showed the man who got Claire pregnant in an earlier episode.

I'm fully expecting *at least* one more time jump. They're probably going to go back to ancient times at some point. They'd pretty much have to do that or have a flashback of that time again to fully explain things.

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Zeraph

Yeah, I remember the pirate scene. But that only accounts for several hundred years or so. But even if each protector lives to a 1000 that still leaves a *lot* of protectors if the island has been around since the beginning of mankind, or the earth.

Ah, his arms were hurt? Jesus allegory? I remember him holding out his arms when he first appeared, but I don't remember them hurt (I mean I couldn't see.) I'm thinking the kid is somehow an avatar/representative of the island. Perhaps through Aaron somehow as was suggested. I still say it's not jacob as MIB was never afraid of him.

Yeah, I'm thinking at least one more time jump too, if for no other reason than to somehow merge the two divided lines.

edit: oh snap. what if Soyer could see the kid because he has already been chosen as protector? As in the kid can only be seen by those who are/have been protectors? Would make sense if its the island's representative that explains things and sets up the rules for whatever reason...would explain why MIB was so surprised (as the island is already full of people who can see and talk to dead people.)

ObieX

I didn't notice the bloody arms the first watch-through but i caught it the second time. He's only bloody the first time you see him when Locke is with Richard (about 9 mins in), which is odd timing. You see him *immediately* after Richard denies Locke's request to join forces with him. It's almost like Richard's faith restored Jacob, or Jacob was there to show support for Richard and to get Locke to back off.

Locke sure as hell seemed shocked to see whoever the boy was, and seeing him seemed to push him toward whatever his end goal is with even more haste. That is what made me think he has only a small time window to accomplish his task (getting off the island) before Jacob can fully recover (if the boy is Jacob.)


Lost - Full Episodes and Clips streaming online for free - Hulu

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Lasereth

Wow how did you guys miss the bloody arms?? That was the first thing I saw when the boy appeared. Lost has a way of making the the most innocent things creepy.

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Reese

Ya know, when MIB ran after the kid and Richard came to Sawyer, when MIB got back and Sawyer asked if he found the kid he replied with "what kid?" Now, if this were any other show it'd just be sarcasm but this is Lost. Now, I'm not saying the MIB Forgot he was chasing a kid, but it could have been implying that it wasn't a kid at all.

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fresnelly

"Nothing to see here citizen. Move along please.''

Sawyer is his own man so it'll be interesting to see if he's going to try working a con on MiB. I'm betting the events of the finale will hinge upon it.

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bagatelle

Interesting thoughts all above! I would like to think, the kid was neither Aaron nor Jacob. I have no good suggestions, who it could be though. Maybe someone they killed or rather tried to kill? Young Widmore perhaps? MIB himself as a kid?

There have been theories, that MIB has been the one to impose as others, like when young Ben first met Richard, it's been said, it in fact was MIB, or Ben seeing his dead mother was MIB. Is MIB scared, because he can't understand, who could do impersonating other than him?

At this point Jack and Sawyer in the final scene could very well happen, but then again not, if the island ends up lying in the bottom of the ocean!

Claire's boyfriend and Aaron's dad is Thomas, an artist. He left Claire in the beginning of the pregnancy.

fresnelly

As an aside, here's an interesting talk given by J.J. Abram's on how important mystery is for his imagination and inspiration:

(It's about 18 minutes long)

J.J. Abrams' mystery box | Video on TED.com

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Zeraph

Well we know the boy isn't Jacob now for sure, since he's still dead apparently. Unless 2 versions of him can exist side by side (which I suppose is still possible...but I doubt it even more now)

And not surprised to see, that Claire's "friend" is MIB just like we suspected. So how did he claim Syad? I'm starting to think he must have some power to do with death/souls so that when he died MIB claimed/infected Syad and sent him back.

I wonder how he'll go for Soyer? Or if he'll even try to use him in that way...I can't wait to see Soyer's con of MIB

Its funny, but its actually looking like Hurley might be the new protector. When Jacob mentioned Jack needing to "do something" he never mentioned him needing to take up the protector position. And Hurley really seems to be Jacob's right hand man now.

ObieX

Hurley seems to be the most caring and selfless out of everyone so he would fit the spot well, I was thinking the same. Always following the rules, and always trying to do good with a purity of heart i guess you could say.

Locke fits a Lucifer role well with being defiant the way he is ("don't tell me what I can't do") but since he is dead i think that may disqualify him for the position. I think Ben may end up in the bad spot.

That is if either of the two actually do get replaced.

I do like axe murderer Claire better than whiny Claire character-wise so far. She so cwaaaaaazy.

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Frosstbyte

Crazy Claire is crazy awesome. It's such a jarring shock to see her so utterly devoid of humanity given how she was when we last saw her (before the cabin, of course). Another good episode. This season rolls on. I think that may be why MiB Locke works so well, too. It's a testament to the actors to so convincingly play the complete flip of their previous character. I'm a big fan.

I don't think Ben will take any spots, and I wouldn't be surprised to not see him make it out of this season alive.

archetypal fool

Here are a few random thoughts I came up with while reading through this thread. I've followed the entire show up until now and have re-watched everything up to Echo's story. I would have organized it better but my mind has been spinning in so may directions this last hour thinking about this damned show that now I'm just tired... so onwards with the rambling.

It’s possible that Jacob isn’t the protector of the island, or he's some other element of the island. At various times throughout the show it is alluded that the monster is a defense system, i.e. protector. Maybe MIB wants to kill Jacob because he’s always bringing people to the island for some reason that MIB doesn’t agree with.

There’s a big chess game going on between MIB and Jacob, and the people are the pieces. Jacob was alright with being killed by Ben because he already knew Ben would never stop until he succeeded in killing him (after all, he was convinced by the island itself (he thought) to do whatever Locke said), so why bother struggling? He didn’t only know that would happen, he already had a plan in motion to undo his death and/or kill MIB in a posthumous act of revenge. Clearly Jacob brought some people to the island to serve his needs (Hurley, someone who can see dead people such as Jacob, who could then relay his motives to the physical world); furthermore, he’s molded their lives so that they will react in certain ways to the situations that he’s anticipated, e.g. Jack breaking the mirror because he’s been totally destabilized by the situation and his past (being told that “You have what it takes,” by a supposed ghost).

Finally, consider that one thing this show has always used is subtle details that end up being significant. With that in mind, here’s an interesting detail that has been overlooked (I think): in the scene where Jacob and MIB first speak on the beach, they’re speaking in modern American accents and dialects… but how could that be if they were ancient inhabitants living in the Black Rock’s time? Maybe they are themselves time travelers… and maybe they’re interlocked in some time loop that won’t let Jacob die (maybe because he’s always been influencing people and bringing them to the island, thus assuring that he can’t be killed in the past).

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ratbastid

News yesterday was, Terry O'Quinn (who plays Locke) has written and is shopping around a treatment for a LOST spinoff featuring him and Michael Emerson (who plays Ben) as their "flash sideways universe" characters. They're hit men by night, teachers by day, and have to keep their secret identities secret as they deal with various professional and family issues.

Honestly? ANYTHING that puts Emerson and O'Quinn together again will have my attention. Those two may be the best actors on television right now.

fresnelly

Something I began to think about after Claire buried an axe in the Other's gut, was the sheer number of people who have died on the island over the course of the show. Not counting the original crash victims, it's probably in the hundreds: Others, Tailies, Losties, Dharma, Freighter, Frenchies...

It makes me wonder what is so important about the island that all those deaths can be justified. I realize now that this is the central question I want answered; much more than what Dharma is doing or why the Others are there or whatever. Jacob, what's the point? Why so much suffering and what for?

Also, I got this off of Reddit from a User named NJScorpio:

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ObieX

Hmm.. In that pic i see Linus crossed out. So either Ben is dead or no longer a candidate. Maybe it happened when he used the wheel to leave the island.

Edit: Now I'm wondering if that is Ben's Daughter. But it seems to me that that would have Danielle's last name (Reusseau) and not Ben's since it's really her daughter.

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Reese

Linus could mean Ben's father.

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ObieX

Ooooooooooooooh yea i forgot about him.

If i were MIB I'd just assume the form of the dead polar bear and eat everyone. Sure, being a flying swirlydo mist of death can be fun but sometimes ya gotta eat a fucker.

My question is, what would MIB do if he got off the island? Bring about the end of the world? Drive a UPS truck? I dunno... Maybe all he can get on the island is 56k dial-up and he wants cable but there is no service provider for his area. He wants to leave so badly but we don't know why. Jacob seems to be able to leave the island whenever he wants.

Pondering:
Ben was on the island in his child form at the time the nuke went off, so how was he off the island as a teacher in the alternate reality if that reality was a result of the bomb sinking the island? Ben should be a bunch of bones in Davey Jones' locker, shouldn't he? Some folks were evacuated on the sub i think, but wasn't Ben with the others by that point? There's so much going on in this show its hard to tell if i missed something or if there was just never any explanation given to answer this.

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ratbastid

I don't think Ben was with the others yet--he'd met Richard, but went back home after that meeting. He may have been in a hospital bed recovering from a gunshot, though...

FoolThemAll

Nah... unconscious young gunshot victim Ben had been given to Richard for the Temple healing and as of the Incident, there was no indication that Ben had found his way back to the Dharma folk yet.

It's still unexplained how the flash sideways scenes relate to everything else in the series and how Ben could be alive after Jughead's detonation. We don't even really know if Jughead was detonated in this alternate timeline - perhaps the branching occurs earlier. Or perhaps the island sinks for some other reason.

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Mutant X

I'm starting to get the feeling that Jacob's intentions for jack in particular involve him taking over his role for protector of the island. Perhaps with Hurley and company as the "new" Others.

Btw, i'm really hoping that Sawyer is in the opening stages of one hell of a long con for Smokie.

jimmy1s269

Loving the Jack Rick-roll, LOL.

The name at 109 is Friendly. I wonder if that is a nod to Tom, aka Mr. Friendly that Sawyer killed a few seasons back.

This season isnt as good as some of the early seasons so far, but its still building to what has to be an awesome finale.

ratbastid

We're dealing with what's "really going on", though. The conflict between Jacob and MIB has been in the background of all the drama over the last five seasons. We're finally at the nut of it.

fresnelly

Tonight's episode now ranks as one of my favourites of the whole series.

Great work from Michael Emerson!

Edit: Trivia note: It was directed by Mario Van Peebles!!

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Frosstbyte

Michael Emerson/Ben has been one of the best experiences of TV ever for me. The character is wonderful, and Michael Emerson has sold me on EVERY moment of his life. The man is a genius, and I'm so glad they took an episode out of this final season to devote to Ben, because goddamn does he deserve it.

Spoiler: For what it's worth, I totally thought Jack was gonna get blown to hell tonight. I'm almost a little sad he didn't.

ratbastid

WAY seconded about last night. And I love how sidways-Ben redeemed island-Ben. Island-Ben's so broken now. It's hard to see him like this after how we've known him for all these years. But last night's ep was a turning-point for him.

Lasereth

I definitely agree about Ben. I actually think he's one of the reasons the show got so awesome in season 3/4/5.

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Jove

If you have a choice, would you be on team smoke mist monster, which includes Sayid (super ninja assassin bad ass) and Claire (axe wielding nut job) or team jacob, which include a bunch of whiny losties? I would be on the smoke mist monster's team for a bit before taking out their second and third in charge (Sayid and Claire).

ratbastid

Team Jacob doesn't even have a god-boss. Team Smokey has all the bad-asses... plus Smokey!

Jack hasn't picked sides yet, I guess, but I'm glad he's gone to Richard for answers. And we don't know where Jin is--last we saw him, Psychoclaire was fixing his leg in her hut. Is anyone else unaccounted for? Where's Sawyer, since we last saw him in the cliff cave?

quixiotic

Not after the suicidal Richard we saw this week. Another big mystery answered. I wonder which 'Kwan' is the candidate, or are both of them candidate to attempt a co-leader thing.

I can totally see Jack/Sawyer as Jacob/MiB respectively, but I foresee Ben becoming the next Richard whenever management changes

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The_Jazz

I wonder if "Kwan" is the daughter they left behind? It would make sense since both of parents are tapped.

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"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
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Jove

Has anyone noticed how Alex is now smoking hot? I guess getting killed and then being off the air for a year will certainly do something.

ratbastid

She's a little more grown-up now, she's sort of grown into that nose....

Seriously though, the first time on the show I thought, "Gee, she's looking pretty fine!", she was dead 20 minutes later.

Lasereth

Last night's episode was the best of the season so far. Heck I think it was one of the top episodes of the whole show.

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Frosstbyte

Well, for those of us out there who wanted answers out of this last season of Lost, boy did they heap them upon us with that episode, and it did not disappoint in the least. The scope of Smoky and Jacob's conflict has really been wonderful to see unfold. I guess my main issue going forward with this season is how they'll reconcile the side flashes with the "main story." I don't have a good thought for how that will work out, but I'm rolling with them here, and enjoying the ride.