Carl Sagan: Cosmos - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

SSJTWIZTA · 04-03-2008, 04:47 AM

okay, this book was an excellent read and i have only one question.
could any of you tfpers recommend another book of this sort? Something on the universe, you know.

it would be greatly appreciated, for i dont find many reads that interest me.

Martian · 04-03-2008, 05:10 AM

Carl Sagan on our pale blue dot click to show

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader", every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

Yeah, Sagan was brilliant. If you liked Cosmos, you could try reading Pale Blue Dot next. There's also the Dragons of Eden, in which he explores the nature of intelligence, and you might also enjoy some of his fiction novels (Contact is the most popular), and then there's Stephen Hawking. Personally, I find the man appalling as an individual, but as an authority on matters of cosmology nobody surpasses Dr. Hawking. A Brief History of Time is pretty accessible (although it's important to note that both it and Cosmos are twenty years out of date by this point) and you can also read some of his lectures online.

I used to have a URL for an online version of Brief History of Time, but I seem to have lost it. If I come across it again I'll throw it your way.

SSJTWIZTA · 04-03-2008, 05:34 AM

thanks alot. yeah i knew cosmos was pretty old, i was going to look for newer material after a bit. ive been into space since i was a wee one. ive heard sagan use the term "pale blue dot" before, but i believe it was on the television show.

ive never read anything from hawking. i might buy a book of his then give michio kaku a try.

thanks for the suggestions.

edit: pale blue dot is lookin good so far, ill probably add that one to my teensie bookshelf. okay i dont have a shelf but ill add it to the pile.

oh and a little off topic but, whats so appalling about hawking?

Martian · 04-03-2008, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

oh and a little off topic but, whats so appalling about hawking?

Notably that once he published Brief History and became famous, he left his wife and three children to marry his nurse.

EDIT for more content.

When Sagan referenced the pale blue dot, he was referring specifically to the photograph above. The circled dot is (obviously) the Earth, as seen by Voyager 1 from a distance of about 4 billion miles. I love that photograph for the same reason Sagan did; it gives an incredible sense of perspective.

I will warn you ahead of time that even a lay study of cosmology can get pretty intense. There aren't many authors who are interested in writing on the subject in such a way as to make it accessible to the layman, which basically means that once you've exhausted the few 'beginner' texts out there you either have to give up or move onto the more advanced works. This, in turn, requires you to have a working knowledge of physics (both Newtonian and quantum), astronomy, and relativity to start with. A lot of the concepts are extremely difficult to wrap your head around, not least of which is the sizes and distances involved. The above photograph was taken at a distance of 4 billion miles. Travelling at a highway speed of 75 mph (and therefore assuming you drive like I do) it would take you just shy of 6000 years to get to that point, assuming no rest stops.

That's about 1/1500th of a light year.

Our galaxy at it's widest is approximately 100 000 light years from one end to the other.

Is your mind blown yet?

SecretMethod70 · 04-03-2008, 09:21 AM

Death by Black Hole: And Other Cosmic Quandaries by Neil deGrasse Tyson

SSJTWIZTA · 04-03-2008, 02:27 PM

it takes more than speaking of light years and extremely vast distances to blow my head off, martian.

hmm, death by a black hole looks alright, but not anything i would but. i shall see if the local library has it. (doubt it though, ill probably have to request it)

SecretMethod70 · 04-03-2008, 03:17 PM

You might also like his other book, Origins

Hain · 04-03-2008, 03:19 PM

Loved the series too. I have that on VHS somewhere, and was tempted to buy the remastered DVDs (looks at credit card).

Brief History of Time - Hawking
Universe in a Nutshell - Hawking
Fabric of the Cosmos - Greene
Elegant Universe - Greene
Time Travel in Einstein's Universe - Gott

Shauk · 04-03-2008, 04:16 PM

pale blue dot depressed me.

Hain · 04-03-2008, 04:43 PM

Oh Duh

Hyperspace - Kaku

If it is by Michio Kaku it is on the reading queue.

Sagan: "Billions and billions of stars"

Ustwo · 04-03-2008, 05:15 PM

We need more Sagan's on TV and less John Edwards.

Leto · 04-03-2008, 06:21 PM

The Tao of Physics - by Fritjof Capra - very interesting read on the parallels between western physics and eastern mysticism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Physics

SSJTWIZTA · 04-03-2008, 09:02 PM

yeah, i really want to read some of michio kakus stuff. hes an interesting guy.

i agree. more sagan, less edwards for sure.

tao of physics aye. hmm, i might give that a try. im not quite sure if it would appeal to me yet.

Hain · 04-04-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

We need more Sagan's on TV and less John Edwards.

Agreed. I have said it before and I will say it again: scientists and other great thinker of our time deserve rockstar status like that of Einstein.

04-03-2008, 04:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	Carl Sagan: Cosmos okay, this book was an excellent read and i have only one question. could any of you tfpers recommend another book of this sort? Something on the universe, you know. it would be greatly appreciated, for i dont find many reads that interest me. __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

04-03-2008, 05:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Carl Sagan on our pale blue dot click to show Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader", every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known. Yeah, Sagan was brilliant. If you liked Cosmos, you could try reading Pale Blue Dot next. There's also the Dragons of Eden, in which he explores the nature of intelligence, and you might also enjoy some of his fiction novels (Contact is the most popular), and then there's Stephen Hawking. Personally, I find the man appalling as an individual, but as an authority on matters of cosmology nobody surpasses Dr. Hawking. A Brief History of Time is pretty accessible (although it's important to note that both it and Cosmos are twenty years out of date by this point) and you can also read some of his lectures online. I used to have a URL for an online version of Brief History of Time, but I seem to have lost it. If I come across it again I'll throw it your way. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

04-03-2008, 05:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	thanks alot. yeah i knew cosmos was pretty old, i was going to look for newer material after a bit. ive been into space since i was a wee one. ive heard sagan use the term "pale blue dot" before, but i believe it was on the television show. ive never read anything from hawking. i might buy a book of his then give michio kaku a try. thanks for the suggestions. edit: pale blue dot is lookin good so far, ill probably add that one to my teensie bookshelf. okay i dont have a shelf but ill add it to the pile. oh and a little off topic but, whats so appalling about hawking? __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller Last edited by SSJTWIZTA; 04-03-2008 at 05:38 AM..

04-03-2008, 09:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Death by Black Hole: And Other Cosmic Quandaries by Neil deGrasse Tyson Death by Black Hole: And Other Cosmic Quandaries by Neil deGrasse Tyson __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

04-03-2008, 02:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	it takes more than speaking of light years and extremely vast distances to blow my head off, martian. hmm, death by a black hole looks alright, but not anything i would but. i shall see if the local library has it. (doubt it though, ill probably have to request it) __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

04-03-2008, 03:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	You might also like his other book, Origins __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

04-03-2008, 03:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
Hain has a plan Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere	Loved the series too. I have that on VHS somewhere, and was tempted to buy the remastered DVDs (looks at credit card). Brief History of Time - Hawking Universe in a Nutshell - Hawking Fabric of the Cosmos - Greene Elegant Universe - Greene Time Travel in Einstein's Universe - Gott __________________ ////\\// IRONSKY.NET \\//\\\\

04-03-2008, 04:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	pale blue dot depressed me.

04-03-2008, 04:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
Hain has a plan Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere	Oh Duh Hyperspace - Kaku If it is by Michio Kaku it is on the reading queue. Sagan: "Billions and billions of stars" __________________ ////\\// IRONSKY.NET \\//\\\\

04-03-2008, 05:15 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	We need more Sagan's on TV and less John Edwards. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

04-03-2008, 06:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	The Tao of Physics - by Fritjof Capra - very interesting read on the parallels between western physics and eastern mysticism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Physics

04-03-2008, 09:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	yeah, i really want to read some of michio kakus stuff. hes an interesting guy. i agree. more sagan, less edwards for sure. tao of physics aye. hmm, i might give that a try. im not quite sure if it would appeal to me yet. __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller