TexanAvenger

Really? Because my first thought was, "That's not really an answer."

Seems like the Others are particularly good at misdirection. Their answers hardly seem like answers and their actions seem to serve the purpose of taking attention away from what they're really trying to accomplish.

NoSoup

The answer is obvious.

See, there is this very rich investor who is interested in using DNA found in fossilized amber to bring back the dinosaurs...

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mrklixx

I would just like to note that the "fish biscuit" that Sawyer got was a dark pinkish color....much like a red herring.

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TexanAvenger

As to the red herring, klixx: thank you. My day was just now made by you.

I've got two questions to ask, though many more in my head, that I'd like to get other people's opinions on.

1)Did Juliette not get to the surface seemingly pretty fast to deal with Sawyer?
2)If the place Jack is was really underwater, shouldn't that door have been much harder to close? It seemed to me like a tankful of water was outside the door, making water rush in... but very easy to push against once the pressure starts running down.

Frosstbyte

RB, I'm frustrated because the best way to tell a story is to combine answers with new questions.

Re-watch Season 1. Every episode you learned something CONCRETE about the island and people while at the SAME TIME being tantalized with new information and new possibilities.

The only concrete thing we learned this episode happened in the first 5 minutes when we found out that the Others have a nice little camp where they have tea and make crumpets and have book clubs about old Stephen King novels, i.e. they're even more normal than we thought. I'm not looking for a "SECRETS OF THE ISLAND REVEALED" moment, but I am looking for some give and take. I tire of a show that requires constant, unyielding faith that eventually the writers will "Make it all make sense" without giving me any reason to believe that they won't draw this out right up until the show is cancelled.

ratbastid

Yeah, but you know the greater risk is that the show will be forced to stay on longer than the plot was designed for. The producers have promised that they have a five or six season plot arc in mind, but it's so popular that there's little chance ABC will let them end the series gracefully--it's almost certain to get drawn out beyond the natural ending point. At which point, the producers have all promised they'll walk away from the show. So that's the only point at which I'll be willing to say it's jumped the shark. Until then, I enjoy the show enough exactly as it is and has been that I'm willing to play along with whatever multi-year-long path they're taking me on.

They've really learned from the Twin Peaks Syndrome, where the network, bowing to public pressure, forced David Lynch to cough up an ending to the central plot of the series early in the second season, and then refused to let them stop making episodes. Most of the second season was pure dreck as a result. Once you know who killed Laura Palmer, who gives a good god damn about saving the pine weasel?

I don't really know what it is about LOST that calls for such second-guessing on the part of many viewers, but I hear this all the time. "Oh, I love it, it's the best show on TV, but they'd better not screw the fans over." I mean, I can understand that I guess, but what about just enjoying what they give you? It's a TV show, for crying out loud.

absorbentishe

The show was exactly like I expected. That's the way the show has been going, and we got what we've been getting. Not every character is in every episode, not every story line is played. This is setting up to be awesome.

On a side note, did anyone catch when the plane broke apart, how did the tail fall the way it did? If the plane was over the island, how did the tail come in from the ocean? And, the cock pit, it didn't break off, since it fell seperately too? Just an observation.

guthmund

...when reached for comment the dinosaur said, "ROARRR!"

Sorry. Got my threads mixed up there...

warrrreagl: I'd have to watch it again to be absolutely sure, but I thought there was a label around the inner ring. Didn't catch that with the case though...
Edit: Upon further review the call on the field has been reversed. There is a label, but it's just a bunch of gibberish and "this side up." move along...

Anybody else got an unsettling itch about Kate? There's something hinky about her being put in the cage across from Sawyer, who has got to be the most consistently enjoyable part of the show, in my humble opinion.

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fresnelly

Not really. I expect the Others will be exploiting kate and Sawyer's feelings for each other in order to test/break/torture them. Jack's conspicuous absence will be a helpful tool as well.

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Moskie

ok, you guys lost (heh) me. who's gay now?

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Tamerlain

I really enjoyed the season premiere. But I'm also someone who likes to watch shows like this to simply enjoy them. It doesn't bother me that more questions are raised than answered. That shouldn't be surprising, given that the show is in it's 3rd season.

As the story keeps spinning, it is natural that more questions are raised than answered. In the beginning we only had a few questions so it was easy to get a few answers in the 43 minutes of show-time. Now we have hundreds of questions and still the same 43 minutes. They can only do so much.

I am surprised that no one has commented on the apparent animosity between Julia and Ben/Henry. She was "thrilled" that Adam hated the book and didn't give a lick that Ben wouldn't enjoy it. There was also the moment at the end of the episode where you could clearly see there was some bad blood between Julia and Ben/Henry. Perhaps Jack, Sawyer and Kate do have an ally? Anyone? (well they do have Rousseau's daughter... hmmm...)

And I echo the sentiment of a few previous posters who yelled out loud at the first 5 minutes of the episode - I was one of you too. Clearly the best part of the episode.

-Tamerlain

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Grasshopper Green

This is an interesting point. Ben certainly didn't hesitate to leave Julia for dead when Jack started opening the door, did he?

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TexanAvenger

(Ex)beardy boy, Mr. Friendly, Tom... whatever you want to call him.

He had a kind of genuine humor in his voice when he told Kate she "wasn't [his] type."
-----
On another note, I was thinking earlier (it was hard and it set off the smoke detector, but I did it)... Why did those cuffs cut Kate up so bad? Tom said something like, "They cut you up pretty bad, didn't they?" But she was only (supposedly) eating breakfast and then walking to her cage. They shouldn't've cut her that badly unless there was more motion or pulling on them going on for another reason.

Maybe the "they" Tom was referring to wasn't the cuffs?

fresnelly

I didn't read too much into Kates injured wrists. I figure Beardy Boy escorted her roughly from the beach to the cage, which could have been a long journey. That and Kate probably fought him the whole way.

I too am curious how Julia's shaken loyalty will play out. Will we stay in the present and see her used by Jack as a wedge in the Other's facade, or will we get to see more of her background with Ben and the rest of the Others.

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balderdash111

I disagree - there was some pretty significant injuries to her wrist. I think she had her civlized breakfast, and then had something bad happen to her (interrogation? torture?). Remember, Ben said before he left her at the beach that the next couple of weeks would be unpleasant.

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Tamerlain

I'm with you, there's definitely something there. I thought immediately that something happened to her when I saw her wrists.

His statement was pretty ambiguous. But also, Kate would have told Sawyer if anything happened to her, wouldn't she?

-Tamerlain

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Mondak

Here we go again. First Baltar now this jerk. What is it with you?

Ok - well you are right - the show wouldn't be compelling without characheters to hate. . .

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Nancy

Yeah I noted that immediately.

I have a feeling that Juliet will be playing an important part in the war between The Others and the survivors - I mean, there's a reason as to why they chose to focus on her in the opening scene. Did you notice how, after turning up the music and looking at her reflection in the mirror, she was close to tears?

And then there's the book club incident. I couldn't help but noticing the look in her eyes as she stared blankly ahead for a few seconds before she started yelling at Ben/Adam. It was very despairing and "what the hell am I doing here?"-like. I think she hates this little community of theirs and her life there. And her yelling at Adam/Henry like that only strengthens my conviction. It's clear that she's frustrated about her situaiton and she was simply taking it out on them.

And on top of that there's definitely some bad blood between her and Henry. I say that Kate, Sawyer and Jack indeed have an ally.

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guthmund

What can I say? I'm drawn to the duplicitous.

I was watching it for the second time and...I don't know...she looks ashamed. Of what, I couldn't say. If there is in fact a time discrepency, then maybe she's ashamed to talk about what happened to her or maybe she's ashamed of what she's going to have to do over the next two weeks, eh?

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balderdash111

FYI. One of the actors was interviewed recently and he said this season will focus on The Others (we knew this), and how fromt their perspective the survivors were the bad guys. Invading their bucolic existence, killing their friends, etc.

Could be interesting, though clearly the Others aren't innocent in all this - remember how they took the kids the first night?

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surferlove007

I believe the injuries were most likely from the handcufffs she was forced to wear while eating with Henry...I have never worn cuffs however I have read several novels about them, one impeticular. Steven King's "Gerald's Game" tells about a woman who is trapped in cuffs to the bed when her husband dies of a heart attack. She nearly died in them...so with that knowledge I could believe her wrist to be beaten up from them.
Who knows, could be many reasons.
Just a thought so we remember the cuffs at breakfast.

ratbastid

They were just scratches. Cuffs can do that, especially if they're put on "properly"--that is, too tight to rattle around on the wrist. Those were Tom's words actually: "Looks like those cuffs scratched you up pretty bad."

Jove

I think Sun gets an extra point for actually pulling the trigger and killing Hannah (or is it Annah) instead of being emo and giving the gun to the chick. Too bad she had an affair with her english teacher.

Sawyer did an awsome job at kicking ass, but should have kept to himself in the cage because Ben knows everything.

Grasshopper Green

Well, I suppose that doing hard physical labor all day can qualify as being "unpleasant".

I think that Ben and Juliet used to be lovers or something to that effect...the soup line and look that passed between them led me to believe that. Which...would suggest a reason for any bad blood between them.

AND...if Ben really has spent his entire life on the island...then there would have to have been people there long before Dharma...wouldn't there? Perhaps some type of Utopian society....

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NoSoup

My thoughts exactly...

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Tamerlain

I'm kind of surprised that Sun slept with her English teacher. We could obviously see that he wanted her through the flashbacks last season, but I didn't think she'd sleep with him.

The hard labour camp they seem to be running with Sawyer and Kate doesn't really seem like something that would be "the worst two weeks" of Kate's life. I don't get that part yet.

I think they're keeping Jack separate from those two though because they realize he's the leader of the group - they have to keep him separate from Sawyer and Kate. They're giving him the most respect by keeping him locked away. But maybe it's just to break him, maybe they don't want to break Kate and Sawyer - they seem to be pretty easy to manipulate by threatening one in the presence of against the other.

I didn't really develop any new theories about the show, but still a good episode. Actually, it was interesting that Ben was so insistent about getting the sail boat. Maybe the boat he gave Michael and Walt was the only one they had. Maybe he goes after them in the sail boat?

-Tamerlain

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surferlove007

This may be a bit of a stretch but when it showed Sayid, Sun, and Jin sailing I could of sworn I saw a similar rock formation to Stonehenge on one of the cliffs...making me believe the theory of people being there for many years prior to Darhma.
Anyone else see the similar rock formation or am I just losing it?

ratbastid

Could be. Maybe they drove Dharma off? And they're preserved in Dharmafolk oral tradition as "the hostiles"?

Frosstbyte

I have one nagging question and one confused point:

First, the "disease" that kept coming up in the first two seasons. I'm somewhat surprised there has been no mention of it, unless these others are somehow different others than the others that kidnapped Claire very early on, as they seemed to be pretty obsessed with that.

Second, these others seem altogether different than the others we previously encountered. They're a lot more human and a lot "squishier." I can't figure out why we went from "SCARY PEOPLE WHO KIDNAP YOU IN THE NIGHT" to "We're not the enemy, you made us the enemy by killing our own. Calm down and let us help you."

I liked this episode a LOT more than last week's, and was much more what I expect episodes to be like. I also generally think Sun and Jin are awesome, so I'll never complain about episodes that focus on them. Here's looking forward to seeing more.

Grasshopper Green

One small detail about the episode...

Did anyone else miss the relevance of the childhood flashback of Sun's? What was the point? Was it to prove her dad was a jerk...because that has already been shown. I wondered about it last night and I'm still wondering about it. I'm with you though, Frosstbyte...I think Sun and Jin are among the most intriguing characters on the show.

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ratbastid

This "Sun episode" was all about betrayal.

In that first flashback, Sun betrayed her father and the maid by lying about the broken statue. Then she betrayed Jinn with her affair. Then she betrayed Jinn by working around him to help Sayid. Finally she betrayed herself by shooting the other woman (Colleen?).

Meanwhile Jinn is staying true to himself, standing up for to his father in law, refusing to kill the man he's been sent to kill. Also in staying in on the plot to ambush the Other team. It's a brilliant dichotomy--until now Jinn has been set up as the bad guy, and Sun has done whatever she needs to to deal with him, but this episode turned that all around. These two characters just keep getting deeper.

Frosstbyte

Edit: RB beat me to it. Read his!

I think it was to show that Sun has lied to get herself out of trouble in the past, and others have faced the consequences of those lies because her lies were not very convincing. Sun's honesty, particularly to Jin, was is great question during this episoode (and for good reason). I think setting it up by showing her lying to avoid getting in trouble herself set the tone for watching her deceive Jin the first time by cheating and the second time by plotting with Sayid.

Grasshopper Green

Thanks for the clarification; the explanations make sense

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Frosstbyte

This is a delayed response, but why do you think she betrayed herself when she shot that woman, RB? Kind of seemed like the prudent thing to do, all told. Self defense, escape capture by hostile forces.

fresnelly

My prediction is that Ben and the upper level Others will take the Woman's death (if the shot was indeed fatal) very seriously, and up the ante in the conflict between the two groups. In other words, she's important and Sun's shot crossed the line.

Remember her snappish jibe at Juliette and Ben for being excluded? There's a history there, and it hints towards some sort of tense relationship triangle, as well as the broader social hierarchy of the Others.

If Ben is the sole leader, I put Juliette and the woman up as "executives", the , Bearded guy and the Jobsite enforcer as middle management, and the rest, such as Rousseau's daugher and her missing friend from the Zoo cage, as low ranking worker bees.

The worker-bee redshirts are somewhat expendible towards the Others' quest to convert/save the Losties, but the high ranking woman's death will be taken very personally.

I'm definitely looking forward to next weeks episode, apparently focusing on Locke and Eko; two of my favourite characters. What did happen in the hatch during the incident?

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ratbastid

It's just not who she is. She's not a fighter--though as we saw from this episode, she's willing to lie to get her way. And she probably got herself in more trouble with the Others when she is inevitably caught. For narrative purposes, she has to get caught now.

The more I see of the Others, the more I'm pulling for our Losties to believe them. The reveal about the world series was brilliant--if I had been on a desert island when that happened and somebody told me about that, there's no WAY I'd believe that.

Tamerlain

While I thought that the World Series scene was a good way to prove that the Others do get information about the outside world, I thought they could have chosen something different. I believe that the Others would be concerned about who gets elected (Ben told Jack that Bush was re-elected) but I don't think they would show as much enthusiasm in baseball (or sports in general) as Ben showed.

"No really, they were down 3 games to none and won 8 straight." You really have to be a fan of baseball to understand the signifigance of coming back from 0-3 to win a series. Maybe it's just nitpicking, but it kind of bugged me. I'm sure the audience appreciated the use of the Red Sox example, but I just don't think the Others would have a very large interest in sports. Ben especially, since he was born on the island. He wouldn't have been surrounded or exposed to the craziness that surrounds Red Sox fans, so why would he be so enthused?

-Tamerlain

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ratbastid

Just to nitpick a little, he didn't actually say that. He said he'd lived on this island all his life.

Yeah, but that's the thing. This island isn't as isolated as we've thought. Ben is clearly up on current events, very much part of the world. Maybe he IS a Sox fan! That's what's so shocking about that scene; there's a video tape on this island of a TV broadcast of an event that made major world news since the crash. According to Jack's understanding of the island, that should be impossible.

Jove

I have noticed this as well Frossbyte and maybe the writers are doing this to show the others reactions and behaviors toward certain actions or events.

I like your description Fresnelly of the others hierarchy. I think we have seen examples of this when Sawyer fought against several of the middle management crew.


I would like to know if they have several psychologists analyzing the personalities and behaviors of each Lostie and what the individual who do in certain situations. We do know Ben likes to observe and test people to see how far he can go before the person cracks.

ratbastid

Agreed. That was the game he was playing in the Armory.

I think we can pretty much count on the Others to be at least three steps ahead of the Losties at every point.