Willravel

http://www.trektoday.com/news/210406_01.shtml

Star Trek: Nemesis sucked really, really badly...and I say that as a die hard Trekker who was a TNG devotee. I wasn't sure that I would ever see another Star Trek film, and now we have this.

The idea of a young Kirk has been bounced around for years, news of it popping up every now and again, but it was never given any serious thought until now. I think the idea is a stinker, but I've been wrong before (I was dead wrong about Star Trek First Contact, it was amazing). I'm crossing my fingers on this one.

ubertuber

That franchise is unkillable, not that Paramount will ever stop trying.

Seriously, not even J.J. Abrams is enough to revive my faith in the idea of Star Trek movies. It's so embarrassing to go to the theater and already (on opening night) be able to envision the movie playing late nights on TBS. And yet we can't help ourselves... We keep going, on the off chance that there will be another Wrath of Khan.

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BigBen

Hey Will, who would you cast?

I am having a hard time thinking of any actors who would not totally butcher the thing.

Trekkers are religious people. Don't fuck with their perception of the world as they see it.

Ben Afflek? Matt Damon? Christian Bale?

I vote for myself. I would totally rock.

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fresnelly

I'd rather they didn't try to mine the past anymore. Spock and Kirk are just too iconic to recreate successfully. I'd rather they move forward in time, broaden the Trek universe, and create original stories and characters. Bring on the Enterprise-F and let's boldly go where no one has gone before.

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pan6467

ST needs new blood. For whatever reason Berman really tried to kill the franchise.

I think one of the problems was that TNG stars were tired of it and stopped truly caring.

As far as the series go I truly liked Voyager and Enterprise (which should have been given more time). I never liked Deepspace9 it was a horrid Babylon5 wannabe and TNG jumped the shark when they started getting too reliant on the Holodeck and there was more psychodrama then action. Psychodrama and making statements have their place but..... not every show.

I think when Roddenberry died and Berman took over he just didn't share the vision and wanted to turn Trek into his baby and forget Roddenberry.

I think this new project has possibilities, but I don't want to see it being an adult Harry Potteresque type movie.

What they should do is follow someone new through Starfleet Academy and then go from there. You could bring back some of TNG cast as professors, spend the first half showing the kid as building this "kid" as the rebel who is damn good but lives by emotion and chance. Then move him into space as the wunderkind who makes a horrid mistake and tries to save the day.

I just described Top Gun...... fuck..... what do I know.

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pan6467

I agree a major part of Trek's greatness was the creativity in the races and planets that they came across. Berman and company got very far away from that.

Mining the past and trying to show what Kirk and Spock did before would be a horrid happening.

Besides anyone who truly knows their Trek knows Spock and Kirk did not know each other UNTIL the Enterprise. The only person Kirk knew when he took command was "Bones" McCoy.

Plus to make Spock the same age as Kirk in this would be to thumb their nose and ignore the fact that Vulcans live much longer lives and Spock I believe was older than Jim already. Spock was very close to Cmdr. Pike as we see in "The Menagerie (or the pilot)". So how exactly would they make Kirk and Spock fellow cadets at SA and ignore the future events we already know?

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Dilbert1234567

The problem with the star trek franchise is they have move more and more towards action, and away from adventure. Look at star trek 9 and 10; in 9, they are defending a planet from an alien relocation/invasion, tons of action, not much adventure. Then look at 10, after the initial setup, its just one big battle. And in that setup, we have that stupid set of scenes on the planet in the buggy thing. It got my heart pumping, but it’s not the star trek genre. Also if you look at the MPAA ratings, they are slowly getting more violent over time, all are PG except first contact and nemesis. First contact was great; it built on the story, and kept to the star trek feel even though it had a lot of action. But 9 and 10 had that ‘run and gun’ feel, which is not star trek. I hope they pull the franchise back to its roots; I’d love to see a deep space 9 movie, as long as they don’t screw it up.

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Charlatan

I thought DS9 was an excellent series once they took the reigns of the Star Trek Universe (i.e. once TNG finished it's run). Prior to that they were limited by what was happening elsewhere.

This idea has lots of potential but, like many, I am sure they will fuck it up.

I'd like to see them do an animated series (not like the original animated series). I think about series like Justice Leage Unlimited and wonder what might come out of a series that took that kind of mature approach to animation...

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fresnelly

This sounds like an excellent idea. I don't have a particular craving for an animated version per se, but I bet the franchise could be rejuvenated through a different medium like this. An animated series would need a completely new creative team, and offer more room to push the universe's boundries in a positive way. Furthermore, the hard core fanboys might cut it some slack because it wouldn't be "real".

Given time to prove itself and establish some trek cred, it could then inspire a return to live action, either through TV or film.

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Willravel

Who would I cast? Unknowns. As said, ST needs fresh new faces. I mena hire trekkers, but make sure they've never been in a Trek movie or show before (no reusing actors like Ensign Roe, Tovak, etc., that was just stupid). I'd like to see a group of talented actors approach the parts not as sci-fi actors, but as dramatic actors. Part of the reason Kirk was so likeabe (besides his ridiculous overacting, which I love) was that he was a clasically trained actor. I'd like to see a darker Kirk, who is wrestling with the decision to ship off or to stay and get married (a la Generations). I'd like to see Spok just starting to deal with the dichotomy of being a vulcan and a human. Maybe we can find out why he was so bitter towards humans in the beginning.

BTW, I'd kill to play young Spock. What an awesome role. Logical. Damn logical.

Of course, this will probably be a stinker. I miss Rodenberry.

Arc101

I still liked Deepspace 9 even through I do agree with you that it was a horrid Babylon 5 wannabe. Babylon 5 was truly great. Anyway, I think that yes this film will piss off the die hards, but for people like me who just like SF it might be good. I have a open mind about this, and would be interested to see it.

Brewmaniac

I'd much prefer them to forward not back. Maybe follow a young Ensign Kirk(Jim's gradson) thru the Academy or something.

Continue to boldly go where nobody has gone before!

And I don't mean brokeback Star Trek.

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Willravel

It'd have to be a clone. Kirks only son, Dr. David Marcus, was killed in the Wrath of Kahn and had no children. And the clone thing was already done with Picard. And the time warp kid thing was already done with Yar.

I'm a nerd.

Brewmaniac

Yea, I remember now I'm sort of junnkie too! I still watch TNG almost every day. I just have a bad memory. sad

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ubertuber

I was just on Broadway in the middle of NYC and I saw a taxi running this headline on the sign on the roof. It was funny because it was like it was some sort of breaking news...

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Val_1

This prequel idea just doesn't seem like it would work. Nimoy and Shanter are too well known and too strong personalities (especially Shatner). The actors that play Kirk and Spock would be reduced to the role of celebrity impersonators. Awhile ago I thought the idea of a ST prequel sounded promising, but once I saw Enterprise! Man, what a stinker. I couldn't even bring myself to give it a second chance.

Here's an another idea I had for a ST series. It would be set concurrent with TOS aboard the USS Constellation (from The Doomsday Machine). And here's the catch: It would be based entirely off of fan submitted scripts.

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n0nsensical

I'm not sure, but I think the time traveling Nazis might have something to do with it.

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jth

wow, I am so not looking forward to seeing this. I was hoping if they did more movies they would either go with a completely new storyline, new crew or go back and do a DS9 movie since that story was left a little open ended. But doing this.... doesn't sound good.

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Willravel

TOS had an amazing run spanning Generations, and is still one of the most poopular science fiction franchises of all time. The movies were mostly spectacular and very entertainining. They handed off the torch to TNG in a perfect way, I think. Next Generation was perfect, with the obvious exception of the last movie which was a bigger dissapointment since the Roman Republic (why did it have to become an empire!?). I could take another TNG movie, if they could make sure to dip the writers of the last movie in boiling acid in preproduction....of course the dead Data bell can't really be unrung, even in the case of B4, so it wouldn't be the same. I loved DS9, but I felt like it ran it's course, so making a movie would only be like another Nemesis). I never really liked Voyager. There was something stale about it, even durring the last episode. I'd love Enterprise movie, as it was killed off before it's time, but I doubt the show had the following to warrent a major motion picture (it's called showBUSINESS, afer all).

That only really leaves me the option of creating a new crew, new situation, and hiring a proven writer/director/producer/scifi nut...like J.J. Abrams.

stevie667

If they fuck it up, so help me god i'm going to round up some trekkies, build me a phaser and disintergrate their asses! Don't think i won't do it! I know power nerds!

The problem with enterprise was that they tried to go mainstream with it, and the simple fact is, star trek isn't mainstream, nor will it ever be. If they stuck to good old trek principles, they would have done fine. Saying that, it was actually starting to get quite good when they cancelled it. I think they spent the second season poncing around the expanse so the writers could think of good ideas.

I want a movie set after nemesis, where i can see sisko come back, and the voyager/DS9 crews bigging it up, and some cool new technology. I miss cool new technology.

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SecretMethod70

This is the stupidest Star Trek idea ever. Worse than Enterprise. I can only take solace in the fact that, if it actually happens, it's just bad enough that I think even die-hard fans will think twice about seeing it. I know I will, and I consider myself to be in that category. Of course, the bittersweet thing about that is that it will mean that Paramount finally succeeded at what they've apparently been trying to do for quite some time now: kill Star Trek.

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Dilbert1234567

The last episode of voyager kind of messed everything up. They now have 25h century technology in the 24th century, that super ship would change the balance of power in the entire quadrant.

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Willravel

Season 3 was in the expanse....season 2 rocked my socks
Admiral Janeway already had her cameo."Jean Luc! How'd you like to take a trip to Romulus? All expenses paid?"
As for Sisko: arguably one of the best all around characters in the Star Trek Universe, amazing storyline with the Prophets, brilliant actor, heck of a voice.

MAYBE, we get a new class starship following the success of the Defiant, in the war against the Borg (First Contact was the best TNG film, so there is precedent). This time NO MORE TIME TRAVEL. This time we have the endgame with the that includes a full orgins story for the Borg. Captian Sisko commands a crew of favorites from TNG (Worf, O'Brian, etc.), DS9 (Bashir, whatever Dax is next, and the return of Odo!), and Voyager (Seven, Chakotay, and a guest appearence by The Doctor). It also features Captian Riker of the Titan, and Admiral Picard, who is the head of Federation Strategic Command. Here's the thing: only 2 space battles. One to demonstrate the situation between the Federation (whihc now includes the Romulans/Remans) and the Borg, and one as the climax. Other than that, we get back to the two great staples of trek: drama and science.

Just a thought.

SecretMethod70

I think that's an EXCELLENT idea....so long as it also has a little Admiral Picard and Captain Riker The TNG crew *needs* to be shown moving on to the next stages in their life: be it retirement, promotion, or a new ship. It's just not right to end their voyages without doing that. And saying Data is dead and Riker/Troi are going to a different ship isn't enough. At the very least, people want to know what the heck PICARD does.

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Le temps détruit tout

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fresnelly

The Borg again? I don't know... It seems they muddle up their mythology a little more with every appearence. What's more to be said? I think they've gone to that well a bit too often. I got enough closure from their outings in First Contact and the finale of Voyager.

What was missing from Enterprise, and what I would like to see return, is the sense of mystery and the unknown. The notion that the universe is bizarre and exists beyond our understanding was a staple of TOS and much of TNG. Remember when a "spatial anomoly" was actually worrying, and "reversing the process" wasn't an option?

Again, I'd rather they didn't get bogged down with canon and political machinations.

Set a crew free and put them out of their depth. After all, that's what the Borg was really all about in the beginning. Introducing them just was Q's way of knocking some humility into the Federation, and reminding them that the universe does not revolve around their pesky blue marble.

What else is out there? That's what I'd like to explore.

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Willravel

Like I said: an orgins story for the Borg. This is something that has been avoided for a long time in order to keep the mystery. What if we finally get a full story on the Borg? What if the Borg are related to V'Ger (Star Trek: the Motion Picture)? That could create an amazing sense of connection to the whole series, and would be an really fun closing to the greatest sci-fi universe of all time.
That's why the producers did the Temporal Cold War...it changed the possible future of the Trek Universe. And that story line went over like a lead baloon.
Maybe it's time to have Q in a movie.....

SecretMethod70

This is a theory I have heard more than once, and I've always been attracted to it. Not only is it a cool explanation for the Borg (and one that makes sense)...it helps to salvage the terrible first theatrical outing of Star Trek

I *LOVE* Q. But a Q movie has already been done: it was called "All Good Things..." Aside for the budget, I think everything about that episode was on par with movie theatre quality.

OK, seriously though, Q in a movie would rock. John DeLancie is incredible as Q and he works so well with Patrick Stewart. Most of the TNG movies have been about Stewart and Spiner, because they're basically the strongest actors on the regular TNG cast, so the relationship between Picard and Data was heavily developed. With Data dead, that can't be done anymore, but they could still focus on Stewart as Picard and have the same quality of acting and character relationship by bringing Q in for a movie. The Picard/Q episodes were *always* good. In fact, Q is what saved Encounter at Farpoint, because aside for that it was a pretty crappy pilot.

The trick, however, is what the hell do you do with Q in a movie? And that's why I brought up "All Good Things..." Q has put humanity on trial, Q has introduced the Federation to the most terrifying race in the galaxy, finally Q has helped Picard prevent the human race from never even coming into being. For god's sake, what more can he do?! Any movie storyline with Q would likely pale in comparison to what has already been done in TNG.

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fresnelly

That's a fair point. I guess before starting with a fresh crew on a new ship in open territory, we'd need a captiol hand-off. Finishing off the Borg along with the old gang does have a certain symetry.

To clarify my wishes for the broad future of the franchise, I'd like to see a return focus on exploration and brain twisting challenges, rather than de-mystifying older characters.

I'd hate to see the origins of the Borg as muddled as the rise of the Empire in Star Wars.

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archer2371

The idea that V'Ger and the Borg are related has been explored in a book, maybe they could expand on it.

This movie has potential, just so long as the new Kirk doesn't saunter into the realm of spoof. And I believe that Spock and Kirk were in the Academy at the same time, just not the same years.

With the way that Superman Returns is looking, with the new Supes looking very similar to Christopher Reeve, I believe they'll be able to find some good people to play everyone. I'll go see it, just because it's Star Trek, but I'm not going in with a lot of expectations.

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fresnelly

That's been my mantra for every franchise film over the past 5 years or so.

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Dilbert1234567

Well I just re watched nemesis, and there are several places they could go from there, there is a lot they can do with romulan society, they were interested in a diplomatic relationship. And data may not be as dead as you think, data was copied into the drone that looks like data, and at the end the drone is singing, Geordie did say it may take a while for the drone to process all the information. if nothing else they can open at his funeral.

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Willravel

The reason I want Sisko to be the Cap against the Borg is that he lost his wife, Jake's mother, to the Borg at the Battle of Wolf 359 and he has extensive military experience from the Dominion War. He seems like the logical choice.

Dilbert1234567

But Sisko no longer exist in the real world, he is part of the wormhole now, as far as everyone else knows he is dead. I did like him though, but he is not really a ships captain, although he does command the defiant, he is a much better station commander.

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Willravel

Well up until Nemesis we all thought Wes Crusher was with the Traveler learning about metaphysics....suddenly he's back at Riker and Troi's wedding.

If you want a decent explaination: Sisko is the emissary, right? Well, the function of an emissary is to be an agent sent on a mission to represent or advance the interests of another. Sisko can't be a representative of the Prophets if he's chillin in the Worm Hole. Perhaps the function of Sisko being in the Celstial Temple was to meditate on what had happened over the course of the series; everything from his wifes death and his being Commander/Captian during an interstellar war to being a religious figure and reconciling that with his responsibilites both to the Bajorans and to Starfleet. After he chilled and reflected, he returned...as a matter of fact, that would be a great place to start the film. He returns to DS9 from spending a year long hiatus on Bajor with the new Kai in a religious reformation. Sisko comes back fresh and ready for adventure.

abbaker987

I would say if they can make another Star Trek movie as good as Wrath of Khan, Undiscovered Country, and First Contact, which is a tall order, then I'll be very happy and surprised... mostly surprised.

Willravel

I've been thinking about this one a bit and I've come up with an idea. Q explored humanity in it's rpesent state, and then visited humanity at it's beginning...why not make use of the future of mankind? Several times Q made mention of our 'potential', the fact that we, despite our nature, are evolving and growing and exploring. Picard always regarded Q's interest in humanity as more than just trivial: Q knows where we are going, and there is something of great significance to our future. A movie in which the crew of TNG explores that next step has all the potential of the Original Series. It's about disovering and exploring the unknown.

Maybe we finally find out if the Q are actually humans.

Dilbert1234567

lol we are such nerds... I can just see the writers looking at this thread and going, 'hey that’s better than what we've got' and yes I did just notice that Wesley was in the wedding, I too thought he was with the traveler, hmmm, maybe he stopped by for the wedding. But yes it could start that way and I would watch. I always thought that the emissary was created by the profits for the role he played, and nothing more, after his mission of bringing salvation to the Bajorans people he was called back to the celestial temple. If they do I’d be curious if they bring Odo back or not, and what happens to Kira after they broke up.

One thing that I have not seen brought up yet is the Breen; it would be a new race that has had very little interaction before. It would give a fresh start with some old characters and allow for new ones.

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stevie667

Thats how much of an impression season two and three made on me

IMO, they can't do the borg again as a serious threat for the next movie or two, its a story line beaten so far around the bush that it just doesn't work. They've had one movie, half of voyager, a boat load of sisko, TNG and some enterpise, and argubly TMP, its overdone.

I think we should have some clean-up story after the dominion war. Maybe some jem-hadar decided they didn't like the outcome, broke from the founders and decided to come back and cause some general mayhem in the alpha quadrant.

We get the return of sisko, and the almost obliteration of earth until voyager comes in with her transphasic torpedoes and gives the bad guys the 'if u is tinkin' u is comin' into me 'ome and blapsin' me stuff, u is gona get so bashed up back, u is not knowin' wat is 'ittin u, innit choclatey?'

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Willravel

OH THANK GOD. So the whole storyline is unconfirmed at this point, which means that all the "Matt Damon/Ben Afleck" BS was just that...BS. I'm still rooting for a Borg orgin story that has characters from all 5 series and has an honest to goodness conclusion. Star Trek is a phwenom that needs to end with a bang, not a ship collision and a whimper.

stevie667

They need to bring out the DS9 and VOY casts, theres plenty more movies in those two.

Re-imaging the OS cast? Good call if they don't.

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